It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Native American Spirituality - The Great Spirit & The Tower of Babel

page: 2
5
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 02:13 PM
link   

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Isurrender73


The Great Spirit, Wanka Tanka, The Great Mystery. They are all considered the same and the core of nearly ever major native American tradition. They all believe in the Holy Spirit.

They believed in A (holy) spirit. NOT the Christian "Holy Spirit". See my signature.



There is only One God and One Devine Spirit.

A man cannot speak about the Devine Spirit unless he has connected to it. The words from the Native American Spiritual teachers that I have read all come from the mouths of men who were divinely inspired.

Since Christ is the only Holy Spirit, the source of Devine Inspiration, these men must have been following him. They gave him a name or title that was appropriate for their language.

And therein lies the issue, sir. In your opinion "There is only One God and One Divine Spirit." Because the bible tells you so?

In my opinion. There is no Christian God, and therefore no divine spirit. I base my opinion on severe lack of evidence. I'm sorry, I just see circular reasoning on your part.

edit on 7/13/2015 by Klassified because: grammar




posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 11:23 PM
link   
a reply to: Klassified

Actually ALL OF THE spiritual texts that I follow say there is One creator God and One Light, Holy Spirit, Great Spirit. So if it does exist their can only be One.

According to you all of these men connected to the same imaginary God and the same imaginary Spirit.

But when I say they all follow the SAME SPIRIT I was speaking the truth. Whether it is imaginary or not there is only One according to all of those who have claimed to serve him.

So your statement that they don't all follow the same SPIRIT/SPIRITUAL IDEOLOGY, is false.

I believe someone who believes in
Internal Divinity is a better judge of spiritual ideology than an atheist.


edit on 13-7-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 11:45 PM
link   
a reply to: the2ofusr1

I'm sorry but Jesus is God's One and only Son.
This is what the New Testament and all other scriptures that speak of God's Son proclaim.

All others are adopted into the kingdom, by faith in the ONE AND ONLY Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Love and Reason, Jesus Christ.

John 3:16

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his ONE AND ONLY SON, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
edit on 13-7-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 01:03 AM
link   
a reply to: Isurrender73




I'm sorry but Jesus is God's One and only Son.
This is what the New Testament and all other scriptures that speak of God's Son proclaim.
God is a Elohim angels are some times referred to as Elohim and the son's of God the created heavenly beings are called Elohim .A gods are Elohim but no Elohim is Like God . Samuel after his death was called a Elohim . Deu 32:8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. ESV That happened at Babel .The creation of the Nations and God put his created son's ,not Jesus ,but His created sons over the Nations .We are the adopted sons of God who are in Christ .



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 08:43 AM
link   
a reply to: Isurrender73
Suit yourself, OP. Believers have a tendency to project their beliefs on everyone else. Even on history itself.


Actually ALL OF THE spiritual texts that I follow say there is One creator God and One Light, Holy Spirit, Great Spirit. So if it does exist their can only be One.

A case in point. What about those texts you don't follow that disagree with you?


I believe someone who believes in Internal Divinity is a better judge of spiritual ideology than an atheist.

This atheist was once a bible-toting Christian who walked the talk. Obviously, you already have a preconceived notion of what an atheist is. You have all of us labeled, and put on the shelf in a nice little box. I've said this many times. Atheism does NOT preclude one from spirituality.
edit on 7/14/2015 by Klassified because: grammar



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 08:53 AM
link   
a reply to: Klassified

It's interesting how many Christians assume that ex-Christians would somehow forget the very doctrine they learned their whole life as soon as they leave the faith.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 09:27 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Klassified

It's interesting how many Christians assume that ex-Christians would somehow forget the very doctrine they learned their whole life as soon as they leave the faith.

Truth.
They also seem to forget that, unlike most of them, we have now been on both sides of the fence. Most of us didn't wake up one day, and suddenly decide we were an atheist/agnostic, without any previous forethought or study.

We must not have been real Christians.

edit on 7/14/2015 by Klassified because: sarcasm



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 09:49 AM
link   
a reply to: Klassified

Yea, we don't have to invent strawmans about the opposing side of the argument. We've actually lived it. We KNOW what is said and what is done in that belief system intimately.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:27 AM
link   
a reply to: Klassified

This is not about Christianity.

This is about those who believe in One God and One Holy Spirit. The concept of One God and One Holy Spirit did not originate with Christianity. Nor does Christianity own the only scriptures that talk about the Christ.

The only reason I accept your calling me a Christian is because I am a deciple of Christ.

But you can also call me a Zoroastrian, a Buddhist, a Muslim, an Isrealite, a Hindu, A follower of Plato, A believer in the Emeral Tablets, and a Native American Spiritualist, a follower of Confusious, A believer in the Tao, a student of the I-Ching, and a follower of the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

What label would you like to place on me?

I am not the Christian you went to church with. I would appreciate it if you would stop judging me according to your preconceived notion of my faith.

Being a Christian and going to a Christian church does not make one Spiritual.

As a matter of fact the church is more likely to lead you to the path of perpetual imperfection and ritual salvation that leads to self-righteous Christians, rather than the path to Spiritual Perfection.

Chrisians with minds trapped by their inaccurately preconceived notion of perpetual imperfection, which should translate to ignorance that can be overcome.

Most Christians don't believe in Spiritual Perfection, so most Christians don't actually follow the Spirit of Perfection, the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ.

John 9;31
We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person WHO DOES HIS WILL.

God only listens to those who believe in Spiritual Perfection, because God did not make laws that were impossible to follow.

edit on 14-7-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:34 AM
link   

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: Klassified

This is not about Christianity.

This is about those who believe in One God and One Holy Spirit. The concept of One God and One Holy Spirit did not originate with Christianity. Nor does Christianity own the only scriptures that talk about the Christ.

The only reason I accept your calling me a Christian is because I am a deciple of Christ.

But you can also call me a Zoroastrian, a Buddhist, a Muslim, an Isrealite, a Hindu, A follower of Plato, A believer in the Emeral Tablets, and a Native American Spiritualist, a follower of Confusious, A believer in the Tao, a student of the I-Ching, and a follower of the Tibetan Book of the Dead.


You're really STRETCHING the concept of a one god or a one holy spirit for some of those religions buddy.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:41 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Klassified

It's interesting how many Christians assume that ex-Christians would somehow forget the very doctrine they learned their whole life as soon as they leave the faith.


You learned perpetual imperfection, "fallen", and ritual salvation. I am fully aware of what you were taught.

However, I don't believe in either perpetual imperfection or ritual salvation.



10 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—

I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL, MY GOD".


I have also come to do my fathers will. It is my fathers will that I obey all his commandments perfectly, because he did not create laws that were impossible to follow.

His son came to take away the sins of this world, a gift that I have accepted and continue to follow on the path of Spiritual Perfection.

edit on 14-7-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:44 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You are welcome to your opinion. But it is no stretch for me.

What you see as an impossible stretch, I see as an elaborate puzzle that fits together perfectly.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:46 AM
link   
a reply to: Isurrender73

More like trying to shove that ONE piece that has an edge similar to that other piece that has an edge that looks like they will fit. They may even fit, kind of, but instead you just have to look closely enough to see that the two pieces don't fit well enough to actually be the correct piece placements.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:55 AM
link   
a reply to: Isurrender73

I see by the verse you quoted that you are taking the side of the Pharisee's who are the ones speaking in that quote .Also it might do you well to read what was going on at that moment . Joh 9:11 He answered, "The man called Jesus made mud and anointed my eyes and said to me, 'Go to Siloam and wash.' So I went and washed and received my sight."
Joh 9:12 They said to him, "Where is he?" He said, "I do not know."
Joh 9:13 They brought to the Pharisees the man who had formerly been blind.
Joh 9:14 Now it was a Sabbath day when Jesus made the mud and opened his eyes.
Joh 9:15 So the Pharisees again asked him how he had received his sight. And he said to them, "He put mud on my eyes, and I washed, and I see."
Joh 9:16 Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath." But others said, "How can a man who is a sinner do such signs?" And there was a division among them.
Joh 9:17 So they said again to the blind man, "What do you say about him, since he has opened your eyes?" He said, "He is a prophet."
Joh 9:18 The Jews did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight, until they called the parents of the man who had received his sight
Joh 9:19 and asked them, "Is this your son, who you say was born blind? How then does he now see?"
Joh 9:20 His parents answered, "We know that this is our son and that he was born blind.
Joh 9:21 But how he now sees we do not know, nor do we know who opened his eyes. Ask him; he is of age. He will speak for himself."
Joh 9:22 (His parents said these things because they feared the Jews, for the Jews had already agreed that if anyone should confess Jesus to be Christ, he was to be put out of the synagogue.)
Joh 9:23 Therefore his parents said, "He is of age; ask him."
Joh 9:24 So for the second time they called the man who had been blind and said to him, "Give glory to God. We know that this man is a sinner."
Joh 9:25 He answered, "Whether he is a sinner I do not know. One thing I do know, that though I was blind, now I see."
Joh 9:26 They said to him, "What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?"
Joh 9:27 He answered them, "I have told you already, and you would not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become his disciples?"
Joh 9:28 And they reviled him, saying, "You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses.
Joh 9:29 We know that God has spoken to Moses, but as for this man, we do not know where he comes from."
Joh 9:30 The man answered, "Why, this is an amazing thing! You do not know where he comes from, and yet he opened my eyes.
Joh 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.
Joh 9:32 Never since the world began has it been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a man born blind.

The Pharisees were always looking for ways to condemn Jesus and this is one of them . The fact that Jesus performed a miracle that could only have been by God and that it was public knowledge now . Also if you consider our human condition of needing a Savior then Romans 5:8 makes perfect sense .



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 11:17 AM
link   
a reply to: the2ofusr1

That was the man who was healed that I was quoting not the Pharisees.



Romans 5
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we WERE still sinners, Christ died for us.


I was a sinner before I accepted the Grace Given me through the Love of Christ.




26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.



I do not keep sinning because Jesus Christ is in me. The Perfect Holy Spirit is in me and guides me down the narrow path of Spiritual Perfection.

I will not be one who tramples perfection underfoot by following perpetual imperfection. No, I will follow the Perfect One to Spiritual Perfection.


edit on 14-7-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 11:26 AM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If all the prophets who taught us to do no unjust harm, do good deeds, live a virtuous life filled with Love and peace, who also taught One God were to meet, I imagine they would agree that all follow the same One God.

If a Native American teacher who preaches One God met with Mohammed, Moses or Abraham who also preached One God, I believe they would agree that there is only One God.

The prophets all agree, it is their followers who fight each other over who is right, without ever trying to be righteous, who have caused division.

Add - I may be wrong, I do not claim to be infallible. However, I do obey the commandments because God did not create laws that are hard to follow.

edit on 14-7-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 01:09 PM
link   
a reply to: Isurrender73

I think if you examine closely that conversation going on it is a man that was healed who speaks and his parents that speak and the Pharisees . The we are the Pharisees the him is the man and the they are the parents and the Pharisees . The Pharisees are the group that are the ones claiming authority to make proper judgement in this case .They are the ones that are determining if it was a real miracle and if Jesus could be charged with breaking the Sabbath .



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 03:41 PM
link   
a reply to: Isurrender73




Add - I may be wrong, I do not claim to be infallible. However, I do obey the commandments because God did not create laws that are hard to follow.
We do have to rightly divide the word of truth though . The commandment to the Jews to circumcise does not apply to us .The commandments to the The Tribe of Levi was one of the tribes of Israel, traditionally descended from Levi, son of Jacob, the patriarch of the Israelites. Moses and his brother, Aaron, were both descendants of the Tribe of Levi. When Joshua led the Israelites into the land of Canaan (Joshua 13:33), the Sons of Levi were the only Israelite tribe that received cities but were not allowed to be landowners "because the Lord the God of Israel Himself is their inheritance" (Deuteronomy 18:2).[1][2] The Tribe of Levi served particular religious duties for the Israelites and had political responsibilities as well. In return, the landed tribes were expected to give tithe to the Cohanim, particularly the tithe known as the Maaser Rishon. The Cohanim were the priests. They performed the work in the Temple. The Levites who were not Cohanim played music in the Temple or served as guards. Some preachers preach that you should pay tithes but that does not apply to us and doing so is a sin . en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 04:00 PM
link   
a reply to: Isurrender73


But you can also call me a Zoroastrian, a Buddhist, a Muslim, an Isrealite, a Hindu, A follower of Plato, A believer in the Emeral Tablets, and a Native American Spiritualist, a follower of Confusious, A believer in the Tao, a student of the I-Ching, and a follower of the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

You say the above, yet you claim only Christ as having died for your "sins". Why do you not give honor to Tammuz, or Prometheus, or any of the other saviors who died for your sins? Jesus was not the only one. Nor was he by any means the first. That is why you sound Christian more than anything else. And why someone might make that assumption.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:17 PM
link   
a reply to: Klassified

It is my opinion that both Apollo and Prometheus are Greek names or titles for the Christ. The NT is written in Greek. In Plato's allegory of the cave Plato is predicting the Christ will give his life to enlighten humanity.

So I believe in Apollo and Prometheus. I believe homer was a student of Buddhism, and Plato was able to piece the stories together for his philosophy.

I haven't studied Tammuz, so I can't speak on that one.

Add -

Prometheus gives man Fire, this fire is the Spiritual Fire. The Light who created us and wants to help us.

Apollo is the healer.

All the stories are truly the same story retold with different names. The names themselves are typically titles that explain the characteristics of Christ/Krist. who's story is found first in 4000 year old Egyptian writings.

edit on 14-7-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
5
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join