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"Let’s make the Confederate flag a hate crime" - College prof calls to criminalize display

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posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 06:16 AM
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a reply to: FormOfTheLord

No, I do not agree.

You state that as if it is fact, but you have no data, to support it, other than the fact that this usurper flag was made in 1948. For all you know, the great majority of Battle flags flying in the US could well be the original flag, rather than the one you dislike, and I very much doubt that you could tell the difference anyway!

ETA:

OH! I see where your fallacy comes from!

The dixiecrats did not make a new flag, it is the same flag, copied. They ADOPTED the flag, despite the fact that they had no business doing so.

Let me get this straight... In my country, the English Defence League, a bunch of right wing extremists, have adopted the St George Cross as their marching banner, despite the fact that many who revere that flag and respect it are not extremist, and do not agree with their methods, their attitudes, or any other thing. Should we now refuse to fly our St George Cross flags during national holidays? The British National Party, another bunch of knuckledraggers, have taken up the Union Flag, commonly known as the Union Jack, the flag of Britain, as their marching banner. Am I now going to have to stop flying that flag in my bedroom window, lest I be seen as a racist, rather than a patriot?

Your argument is so full of holes that you could put a star system through it without the edges being ruffled.
edit on 13-7-2015 by TrueBrit because: added detail upon review of available data.

edit on 13-7-2015 by TrueBrit because: Placed missing comma.




posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 06:39 AM
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The stains of slavery were very rampant into the mid twentieth century. Although it was abolished, the terror that pursued can't be ignored after the fact or the injustices.

Source

The Census Bureau estimates that 4,742 lynchings took place between 1882 and 1968. Between 1882 and 1930, some 2,828 people were lynched in the South; 585 in the West; and 260 in the Midwest. That means that between 1880 and 1930, a black Southerner died at the hands of a white mob more than twice a week. Most of the victims of lynching were African American males. However, some were female, and a small number were Italian, Chinese, or Jewish. Mobs lynched 447 non-blacks in the West, 181 non-African Americas in the Midwest, and 291 in the South. The hangings of white victims rarely included mutilation.


I'm not advocating this criminalization as posed in the OP, however some of what we see today are results directly or indirectly to this era of brutality.

Source

Lynching in America: Confronting the Legacy of Racial Terror documents EJI’s multi-year investigation into lynching in twelve Southern states during the period between Reconstruction and World War II. EJI researchers documented 3959 racial terror lynchings of African Americans in Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia between 1877 and 1950 – at least 700 more lynchings of black people in these states than previously reported in the most comprehensive work done on lynching to date.


Slavery was abolished, but the reign of terror that ensued was just as horrific.

ETA:


The report explores the ways in which lynching profoundly impacted race relations in this country and shaped the contemporary geographic, political, social, and economic conditions of African Americans. Most importantly, lynching reinforced a narrative of racial difference and a legacy of racial inequality that is readily apparent in our criminal justice system today. Mass incarceration, racially biased capital punishment, excessive sentencing, disproportionate sentencing of racial minorities, and police abuse of people of color reveal problems in American society that were shaped by the terror era.

edit on 13-7-2015 by Daedal because: edit



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 06:39 AM
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I like how liberals were silent on the confederate flag before the church shooting. Suddenly Al Sharpton wants it removed, and everyone drops what they're doing to obey him. Fake ass confederate flag disdain... Quit pretending to be "offended" by it, lemmings.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 06:44 AM
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a reply to: Kromlech
It's known as a scapegoat. Gotta have a reason for blame other then the reality of someone's poor view of life and others rights.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:09 AM
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Ok history deniers please understand the confederate flag now used was only made in 1948 and never before that. It was a canton(or small corner portion of a white flag, later a red stripe was placed at the edge) The dixiecrats made the one with no red stripe or white perimiter. Those who deny this need to just face the facts of history, take a deep breath and understand what the current flag means(racism), "We stand for the segregation of the races," it was made in 1948 by the dixiecrats period, no if ands or buts about it, that is just a historical fact.

The Confederate states went through three official flags during the four-year Civil War, but none of them was the battle flag that's at the center of the current controversy.
edition.cnn.com...


www.theatlantic.com...
In 1948, the Dixiecrats revolted against President Harry Truman—who had desegregated the armed forces and supported anti-lynching bills. The movement began in Mississippi in February of 1948, with thousands of activists “shouting rebel yells and waving the Confederate flag,” as the Associated Press reported at the time. Over the next two decades, the flag was waved at Klan rallies, at White Citizens’ Council meetings, and by those committing horrifying acts of violence.

www.pbs.org...

Here are 8 things you may not know about the confederate flag!
1. The Confederate battle flag was never the official flag of the Confederacy.
The Confederate States of America went through three different flags during the Civil War, but the battle flag wasn’t one of them. It only came to be the flag most prominently associated with the Confederacy after the South lost the war.
Confederacy’s official emblem, although it was incorporated into the two later flags as a canton.
www.netstate.com...
2. The flag is divisive, but most Americans may not care.

3. The flag began to take on a new significance in the 20th century.
In 1948, the newly-formed segregationist Dixiecrat party adopted the flag as a symbol of resistance to the federal government. In the years that followed, the battle flag became an important part of segregationist symbolism, and was featured prominently on the 1956 redesign of Georgia’s state flag, a legislative decision that was likely at least partly a response to the Supreme Court’s decision to desegregate school two years earlier. The flag has also been used by the Ku Klux Klan, though it is not the Klan’s official flag.

4. The Supreme Court recently ruled that Texas could refuse to issue Confederate flag specialty license plates.

5. The NAACP has long led a boycott against South Carolina because of the battle flag on display at the capitol.

6. The battle flag on South Carolina’s statehouse grounds couldnt be lowered.

7. Five Southern states have legal protection for the flag, but California bans it.

8. Mississippi is the only state whose flag still features the battle flag.
edit on 13-7-2015 by FormOfTheLord because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:11 AM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

This isn't going to stand up in any court of law and is just an idiotic professor brainwashed by his own leftist rhetoric thinking he can criminalize free speech. But hey, feel free to pretend like this is an indication of those "evil progressives coming for your rights."
edit on 13-7-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:17 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
Much wrong has been done under the flag of my nation, both in history beyond my direct experience, and in more recent times. However, I do not associate our flag with those things automatically, because I understand the history behind the flag well enough to know that it is not the flag which is responsible for those things, but the politics prevailing at the time, and the weakness of men's hearts before obvious evil.


You may be able to disassociate the history from the intent of those displaying it, but clearly millions of Americans can't do that in relation to this historical emblem. This is still very much in the recent history of many people, these are still issues affecting many Americans to this day.

Without being a part of that group I think it's arrogant to claim that they should feel this or feel that. Neither you nor I actually experience that bigotry every day, so who are we to tell others how they should feel about a symbol so obviously tied to such attitudes?
edit on 13-7-2015 by Rocker2013 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:19 AM
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a reply to: FormOfTheLord

So you are dissembling, obfuscating, and occluding truth here in a massive way.

The standard which is in question WAS the flag carried by the forces of General Lee during the Civil War from 1861 onward, and was not developed, designed, created or assembled in 1948. In fact it was designed by William Porcher Miles and taken up by Lee's Army of Northern Virginia as their battle standard, for reasons I alluded to previously.

You are being deliberately dishonest sir, and it sits ill with me that you would seek to do so.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:19 AM
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originally posted by: 2wheelvet
a reply to: Rocker2013

Flying it would make me racist or a bigot? I thought I explained already, but here it goes again.


No, you're not reading what I said.

Flying it IN SPITE, simply because you now know it offends people deeply, is racist.

If you now choose to fly that flag just because you know it's offensive to many BLACK AMERICANS, that is the very definition of racism. You are deliberately acting to offend a racial group because you know it offends, there's no reason to other than the simple act of WANTING to attack or offend them in some way.

If you have no other reason to display it than to attack and offend people you know are offended by it, then that IS RACIST INTENT.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:22 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

So you are dissembling, obfuscating, and occluding truth here in a massive way.

The standard which is in question WAS the flag carried by the forces of General Lee during the Civil War from 1861 onward, and was not developed, designed, created or assembled in 1948. In fact it was designed by William Porcher Miles and taken up by Lee's Army of Northern Virginia as their battle standard, for reasons I alluded to previously.

You are being deliberately dishonest sir, and it sits ill with me that you would seek to do so.


So your in denial that the dixiecrats made the current flag, pretty sad. Just look it up and see, try googling it. . . . Heres a hint 1948.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:25 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Asktheanimals

This isn't going to stand up in any court of law and is just an idiotic professor brainwashed by his own leftist rhetoric thinking he can criminalize free speech. But hey, feel free to pretend like this is an indication of those "evil progressives coming for your rights."


He doesn't think he can criminalize anything, he is a professor expressing his opinions about hate speech and symbols being used to attack groups in society.

He's not a legislator, he's not a despot, he's not even a lobbyist. He's someone with an opinion, just as there are a thousand people here with an opinion.

I agree with you on your second point though.
I really don't understand why so many here seem to think that someone expressing an opinion means it's about to become law and they're going to be rounded up for a concentration camp. It's always the same group of paranoid right wingers seeing a big bad boogey man behind every corner just itching to take all their gunzzz!!!!!1111 lol



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:27 AM
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originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: TrueBrit
Much wrong has been done under the flag of my nation, both in history beyond my direct experience, and in more recent times. However, I do not associate our flag with those things automatically, because I understand the history behind the flag well enough to know that it is not the flag which is responsible for those things, but the politics prevailing at the time, and the weakness of men's hearts before obvious evil.


You may be able to disassociate the history from the intent of those displaying it, but clearly millions of Americans can't do that in relation to this historical emblem. This is still very much in the recent history of many people, these are still issues affecting many Americans to this day.

Without being a part of that group I think it's arrogant to claim that they should feel this or feel that. Neither you nor I actually experience that bigotry every day, so who are we to tell others how they should feel about a symbol so obviously tied to such attitudes?


It would be like putting on KKK robes and saying your not trying to offend people and be a racist. People these days, its a sign of how truly pathetic people have become in 2015, they refuse to even understand what the flags orgins are. Talk about deny ignorance more like mass embracing of willfull ignorance. When it was made by the dixiecrats it was to protest anti lynching laws. What a shame my fellow Americans refuse to accept the truth of history.


Then saying it was from the civil war what a bunch of BS, people are just making up thier own versions of history now. It was made in 1948 adopted from a different version of the confederate flag to promote racism, protest anti lynching laws, and promote segregation. To deny these simple facts is to be willfully ignorant of history period.
edit on 13-7-2015 by FormOfTheLord because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-7-2015 by FormOfTheLord because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:27 AM
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We need to make being a liberal a hate crime.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:31 AM
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a reply to: Rocker2013

Rocker2013,

I appreciate your point entirely, but I do not think that being offended by something is a good enough reason to call for it being banned. I find the Conservative Party in Great Britain, skinhead Nazi bastards, and pop music offensive, and believe that all of them are deeply harmful influences on the culture of my nation. I do not call for them all to be banned however, because that is just straight up unreasonable.

In a free country, you have the right to be offended, but not to act against the person who causes offence. You can respond to physical assault, you can respond to attempted murder, but there is nothing in law in any sensibly run nation, which insists that a person who is offended by a thing have the right to see it torn down. Such a thing would lead to everyone having everything torn down, and nothing being allowed.

Offended? Fine, be offended. I thought this was generally known, and an accepted part of living in a free country, for all that many in the west no longer live in any such thing, if they ever did.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:32 AM
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originally posted by: irishhaf
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Do you ever get tired of being wrong...

You have been corrected what a dozen times, public record shows it was flown on land and the ocean through out the civil war.

So how could it have been made in 1948.


I don't think you understand, he has a you tube video.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:37 AM
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a reply to: FormOfTheLord

They did not create the flag, they adopted it.

You look it up. Honestly, if you are going to be so arrogant about things, the least you could do is be remotely accurate.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:38 AM
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a reply to: FormOfTheLord

www.usflag.org...

number 5 down. is that the same flag you are referring to?


Confederate Navy Jack: Used as a navy jack at sea from 1863 onward. This flag has become the generally recognized symbol of the South.


1863. It's called history. Look into it.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:42 AM
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originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Asktheanimals

This isn't going to stand up in any court of law and is just an idiotic professor brainwashed by his own leftist rhetoric thinking he can criminalize free speech. But hey, feel free to pretend like this is an indication of those "evil progressives coming for your rights."


He doesn't think he can criminalize anything, he is a professor expressing his opinions about hate speech and symbols being used to attack groups in society.

He's not a legislator, he's not a despot, he's not even a lobbyist. He's someone with an opinion, just as there are a thousand people here with an opinion.


That was really my point. Just trying to express it in a way that would more resonate with a reader from the right politically. It is a pretty dumb opinion. I don't like the Confederate flag, but I don't want it banned, even as an offhand thing that I know will never happen but is a secret pleasure of mine. I just don't think entertaining thoughts that would ACTUALLY infringe the 1st Amendment is healthy, so yes I DO consider that to be idiotic leftist rhetoric as well. I mean, if we are going to lambaste the right on their idiotic rhetoric daily, its only fair to do it to the left too.


I agree with you on your second point though.
I really don't understand why so many here seem to think that someone expressing an opinion means it's about to become law and they're going to be rounded up for a concentration camp. It's always the same group of paranoid right wingers seeing a big bad boogey man behind every corner just itching to take all their gunzzz!!!!!1111 lol


Too much Fox News, Infowars, and Breitbart.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:45 AM
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a reply to: Ancient Champion

We need to make labeling a hate crime, lest I be accused of being a liberal conservative donkey assed tree hugging war pig who caught the gay yet is still a catholic muslim lover who resides on the banks of deliverance racist bigoted moran sheeple.

Let me know if I missed anything, I'd hate to be accused of being discriminatory too.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 07:52 AM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

www.usflag.org...

number 5 down. is that the same flag you are referring to?


Confederate Navy Jack: Used as a navy jack at sea from 1863 onward. This flag has become the generally recognized symbol of the South.


1863. It's called history. Look into it.


Wrong again its called twisting history, because the flag your talking about was square not a rectangle.

The Confederate Battle Flag was never a National Flag of the Confederacy. It was carried into battle by several armies such as the Army Of Northern Virginia and the Army of Tennessee. It was also used as a Naval Jack by the Confederate Navy. The Battle Flag was not called the Stars and Bars. It was called the Southern Cross. The original Battle Flag design was a square flag and not a rectangle.



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