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"Let’s make the Confederate flag a hate crime" - College prof calls to criminalize display

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posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 01:30 AM
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Do I get a lenient sentence if it is a 'Love' crime?

The term 'Hate' crime is an oxymoronic term in itself; how can you make it more severe than the crime itself?




posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 01:32 AM
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a reply to: notmyrealname




The term 'Hate' crime is an oxymoronic term in itself; how can you make it more severe than the crime itself?

The term is enhanced sentencing. Whether or not it makes sense or is effective is another matter.

edit on 7/13/2015 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 01:34 AM
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a reply to: SPECULUM

Sure, you go ahead and lead the charge; well see how that works and formulate another plan.

Gud Luk



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 02:18 AM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

This sounds like the sort of typical knee jerk reaction I would expect from a young fellow trying to impress a more politically astute female by way of activism. Basically, the author reminds me a little of Stan, from South Park The Movie.

The problem I am having is this. People are comparing the Confederate Flag with the flag of the Nazi regime, and doing so thoughtlessly, and without any idea of the stupidity which is bundled up in the doing of it. Where the Confederate Flag means many different things, to many different people, the flag of the Nazi party means a very narrow list of things, all of them bad, to millions of people, some of whom saw it flown during its height of popularity, a dwindling number of whom are still alive today. Industrial scale slaughter of people based on nothing more than their religious and ethnic backgrounds, is what people think of when seeing that flag. Hatred and intolerance are what the vast majority of people on this planet are reminded of, when looking upon that flag. I personally take issue with its being flown anywhere.

But the Confederate Flag has always been a mixed bag, with regard to the things it represents and the things it brings to mind. Like the flag of my own nation, it brings to mind a history which has had some deeply questionable moments, but also puts one in mind of a certain set of values and codes of conduct, which have nothing to do with those questionable moments what so ever.

The Confederate Flag also brings to mind the simple and necessary act and essence of rebellion against perceived tyranny, a never say die attitude, and a whole host of other laudable things, and this it manages to do in my mind, despite my having no link to it, and despite my never having visited the places it is most often flown. The key difference, you see, between the Confederate Flag, and the Nazi banner, is that the Nazi party who flew it, were a party assembled for the purpose of ethnically cleansing and dominating as much of the world as they could possibly control at any one time.

People from all over the world suffered at the hands of Nazi tyranny, and in the conflicts and exterminations which occurred as a result of Nazi actions, millions paid the ultimate price. The whole world, all of it, was at war over what the Nazis did, so it makes perfect sense that their flag would be remembered as wholly negative in aspect, because it WAS wholly negative, from the moment it first flew, till the last one flying in Berlin was put to the torch. Let's face it, the only good thing about the Nazis, was the sharp, gorgeous cut of their uniforms, and the fact that they had a healthy respect for chrome motifs on black backgrounds, which is something I think most anyone with any taste what so ever, can get behind as a concept. Other than that, they were bastards to the core, by default, and entirely justifiably seen as such.

The Confederate Flag however cannot be dismissed so easily as a hate flag, because its origins and history are not exclusively dark, not exclusively linked to harrowing acts of violence, the maltreatment of people, savagery and hatred, but can also be linked to the positive aspects of the history and culture which it flew over. You show me mass graves, full to bursting with the burning corpses of tens of thousands of bound victims, all simply dragged to the edge of the pit, headshot, and kicked in without ceremony, and I might change my mind. You show me mass execution sites where millions died at the hands of Confederate forces, under a racist dictator leader, you show me the tools of tyranny and I will re-evaluate my opinion here. But as it stands, from what I know of the history of the regions to which the Confederate flag has some relevance, I cannot agree with the frankly sophomoric attempt at political discourse that the article in the OP represents.

Something has gone awry in the minds of anyone who would consider this flag to be akin to that of the Nazi party. These things simply cannot be conflated together unless the individual who does so has taken leave of a goodly portion of their senses, has abandoned reason in favour of mania, in my opinion.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 04:04 AM
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I never wanted a rebel flag until a few weeks ago.
Thanks liberals.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 04:23 AM
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The confederate flag should be considered a hate crime it was made by the dixiecrats in 1948 as a pro segragation protest, and has zero to do with the confederacy and zero to do with the civil war.

It never was flown by any confederate forces nor was it above any confederate state houses. It was made in 1948 and has since become the flag of the KKK.

It has everything to do with racism, pro segragation, and never was even around before 1948.

Most people flying the confederate flag dont even know where it came from and how it was created in protest to not being able to lynch African Americans.

Americans dont even know the history of the flag they are so hyped up over.
It should be a hate crime to fly it as it is a symbol of pro segragation which is in direct opposition to equallity.



edit on 13-7-2015 by FormOfTheLord because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 05:00 AM
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I honestly think I am going to get one and display it in my government quarters, I know questions will be asked about it during inspections, but I welcome that. I have never owned or even thought of the flag much before, but this entire situation has caused me to want one. I am not from the 'south,' don't have any relatives there, don't have race issues, don't wish the 'south' won, nothing like that. Now I want one for the sole purpose of protesting the nonsense that is going on. The flag will represent resisting stupidity. Since when did something, anything, hurting someones feelings mean that it needs to be done away with? If you don't like something, don't have anything to do with it. You don't like cheese? Stay away from it. Don't tell everyone else they can't have cheese.

Everyone is a victim now. Since when did everyone get so sensitive? It's because nobody is there telling them to shut up and stop being stupid. Instead they just get more and more attention since nobody wants to tell them to stop being ridiculous.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 05:03 AM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

This is a common problem on ATS.
One man, who is actually paid to have thoughts and encourage discussion and debate about issues such as this, working in one University in the country, offers his opinion in what is actually a very good piece and full of historical facts, and suddenly you're all pretending that this is now coming into law.

This is not coming into law, this is not the "evil liberal progressives" taking over the government and removing your rights, your guns, your religion... this is ONE MAN expressing his opinion and you all start building your bunkers.

This place becomes more ridiculous every day.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 05:15 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
Where the Confederate Flag means many different things, to many different people, the flag of the Nazi party means a very narrow list of things, all of them bad, to millions of people, some of whom saw it flown during its height of popularity, a dwindling number of whom are still alive today. Industrial scale slaughter of people based on nothing more than their religious and ethnic backgrounds, is what people think of when seeing that flag. Hatred and intolerance are what the vast majority of people on this planet are reminded of, when looking upon that flag. I personally take issue with its being flown anywhere.

But the Confederate Flag has always been a mixed bag


I usually agree with most of the things you say, but i really do think you're underestimating the level of ignorance and bigotry associated to the Confederate flag.

While it's clear that there are significant differences between the two historical examples, to claim that this flag doesn't represent hatred, intolerance, bigotry and violence for millions of people (primarily black Americans) is seemingly to deliberately downplay the impact it has on American society.

I do think there is a great deal of lack of understanding and empathy in this, and to see white people dismissing others, or even dictating how an oppressed group should feel about it, makes me incredibly uncomfortable and even embarrassed for my fellow Caucasians.

This flag is directly connected to an incredibly dark period of American history, where millions of people were enslaved by one group of people, where people were systematically abused, where people were lynched and murdered brutally. No, it might not be comparable to millions of people being slaughtered by a disgusting political ideology, but no one else has a right to say how an oppressed group of people should feel about the symbols of their oppression.

No one here has the right to say to anyone else "brush it off" or "deal with it". And especially not just to excuse themselves for flying a symbol that group of people associates to so much violence and bigotry.

And to those saying they now want to own one and fly one, what does that actually say about you as a Human, as an American, that you would deliberately go out of your way to shove a symbol of hate and ignorance into the faces of those who see it as that?

If people now want to show off this flag JUST because it offends black Americans, doesn't that MAKE YOU A RACIST? If you are only doing it because you know it's going to offend a group within your society, doesn't that MAKE YOU A BIGOT?

This is madness.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 05:17 AM
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a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Total poppycock.

The battle flag we are discussing was handed out to confederate forces in 1861, and carried by them throughout the civil war for use on the battlefield. It was designed in response to confusion at the first battle of Manassas, where the similarities between a previous flag of the Confederacy, and the flag of the Union meant that troops on both sides found it hard to recognise their own forces from those of the enemy at distance.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 05:27 AM
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The battle flag we are discussing was handed out to confederate forces in 1861, and carried by them throughout the civil war for use on the battlefield. It was designed in response to confusion at the first battle of Manassas, where the similarities between a previous flag of the Confederacy, and the flag of the Union meant that troops on both sides found it hard to recognise their own forces from those of the enemy at distance.



So lemme get this straight your denying that the dixiecrats made the current confederate flag in protest to desegregation? Just so you know the makers of the current confederate flag everyone is rallying behind has always been about racism. The Dixiecrats who were the makers of the current confederate flag formed a political party organized in the summer of 1948 by conservative white southern Democrats committed to states' rights and the maintenance of segregation and opposed to federal intervention into race, and to a lesser degree, labor relations. Thier flag was the current confederate flag, not the old school battle flag your talking about with the white background or the red blood stain to the right. Those were the real confederate flags, the ones being mass produced were the ones made in 1948 in opposition of desegregation and no longer being able to lynch African Americans.

Do you or do you not understand the confederate flag was made in 1948 as a pro segregation symbol, used to deny equality to others of differnt races.

This is the truth it was made in 1948 are you denying that simple truth?



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 05:28 AM
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a reply to: Rocker2013

Well, I respect your viewpoint there Rocker2013, but I suppose that I am used to life under a flag which does not always inspire fine feelings, wherever it is flown.

Much wrong has been done under the flag of my nation, both in history beyond my direct experience, and in more recent times. However, I do not associate our flag with those things automatically, because I understand the history behind the flag well enough to know that it is not the flag which is responsible for those things, but the politics prevailing at the time, and the weakness of men's hearts before obvious evil.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 05:29 AM
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a reply to: Rocker2013

Flying it would make me racist or a bigot? I thought I explained already, but here it goes again. The fact that a group of poeple can say they don't like a certain symbol and then have it outlawed is ridiculous in the United States. I mean, not even the swastika is 'outlawed.' If that doesn't represent hate than nothing does. So, the flag now represents to me the freedom that we are SUPPOSED to have, and the standing up that Americans are supposed to do against nonsense like this.

Flags can represent different things to different people. Example below. Are we going to ban that one too?



So, does flying to current American flag make someone racist? It obviously meant something else to those individuals in the pictures...



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 05:33 AM
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originally posted by: 2wheelvet
a reply to: Rocker2013

Flying it would make me racist or a bigot? I thought I explained already, but here it goes again. The fact that a group of poeple can say they don't like a certain symbol and then have it outlawed is ridiculous in the United States. I mean, not even the swastika is 'outlawed.' If that doesn't represent hate than nothing does. So, the flag now represents to me the freedom that we are SUPPOSED to have, and the standing up that Americans are supposed to do against nonsense like this.

Flags can represent different things to different people. Example below. Are we going to ban that one too?



So, does flying to current American flag make someone racist? It obviously meant something else to those individuals in the pictures...


Flying the confederate flag is the same as putting on KKK robes and then saying your not a racist, because it has always been a racist symbol since it was made by the dixiecrats in 1948. In fact it was also adopted by the KKK after 1948 as one of thier flags, of which they have a few.

It was made to protest desegregation, so yeah its racist and has zero to do with the civil war at all.
edit on 13-7-2015 by FormOfTheLord because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-7-2015 by FormOfTheLord because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 05:38 AM
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a reply to: FormOfTheLord

If it was made in 1948 then by definition, it is not a confederate battle flag.

Again, the confederate battle flag, so called because it was made to be used in battle, featured the blue cross, white stars, and red backing. It was square rather than oblong, which identified it apart from the confederate navy standard, and was different enough from the Union flag to make battlefield actions easier to plan and execute. It was carried from 1861 onwards by Lee's forces. Do you deny that, a matter of historical record?



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 05:39 AM
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originally posted by: Rocker2013
a reply to: Asktheanimals

This is a common problem on ATS.
One man, who is actually paid to have thoughts and encourage discussion and debate about issues such as this, working in one University in the country, offers his opinion in what is actually a very good piece and full of historical facts, and suddenly you're all pretending that this is now coming into law.

This is not coming into law, this is not the "evil liberal progressives" taking over the government and removing your rights, your guns, your religion... this is ONE MAN expressing his opinion and you all start building your bunkers.

This place becomes more ridiculous every day.


I wasn't upset about the flag near the Capitol grounds in SC being taken down, that almost made sense. But knowing how liberalism works I knew it would not stop there. Now they are going to dig up the grave of a Confederate general and his wife in Memphis TN, not realizing Nathan Bedford Forrest was actually a champion of voting rights for Blacks after the war. Flags are being stolen from graves and homes around the country and suddenly the Confederate battle flag is now an overt symbol of intolerable racism according to the media. A month ago hardly anyone gave a damn. What we have is a Pavlovian response endorsed by the administration that makes anything connected with the Confederacy implicitly evil, racist and oppressive.

Bottom line is that if we truly have free speech then it doesn't matter who takes offense or gets upset about a word or a symbol. How they construe such things is their problem, not that of those who use them. You cannot have a free society that spends all it's time and effort trying to prevent people from being upset over x, y or z.

I knew it wouldn't stop at just a flag, this is psychological demonization of a large segment of the current US population through a vague connection with symbols loosely associated with slavery.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 05:46 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

If it was made in 1948 then by definition, it is not a confederate battle flag.

Again, the confederate battle flag, so called because it was made to be used in battle, featured the blue cross, white stars, and red backing. It was square rather than oblong, which identified it apart from the confederate navy standard, and was different enough from the Union flag to make battlefield actions easier to plan and execute. It was carried from 1861 onwards by Lee's forces. Do you deny that, a matter of historical record?


So then you agree the current confederate flag everyone is putting up is the one made by the dixiecrats in 1948 to promote segregation?



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 05:53 AM
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They (the flag opponents) have won the first battle, so rather than sit back, they're going to push even harder.

This is exactly what most of those that were against taking it down were warning about happening, but oh no, they're not telling you that you can't fly one at your house, or on your car, they just want it off state property...



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 05:59 AM
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a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Do you ever get tired of being wrong...

You have been corrected what a dozen times, public record shows it was flown on land and the ocean through out the civil war.

So how could it have been made in 1948.



posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 06:08 AM
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originally posted by: irishhaf
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Do you ever get tired of being wrong...

You have been corrected what a dozen times, public record shows it was flown on land and the ocean through out the civil war.

So how could it have been made in 1948.


Look at history of the creation of the current confederate flag dude you have no idea if you think it was ever in the civil war. It was made in 1948 by the dixiecrats to promote segregation deny ignorance.


Do you even know who the dixiecrats were?


Dont try and remake history the dixiecrats were the makers of the current confederate flag to promote segregation accept that truth period.

edit on 13-7-2015 by FormOfTheLord because: (no reason given)




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