It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

"Let’s make the Confederate flag a hate crime" - College prof calls to criminalize display

page: 16
61
<< 13  14  15    17  18  19 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:06 AM
link   
a reply to: Asktheanimals



All Americans should recoil from the Confederate flag with the same horror we feel for the Nazi swastika.



Be honest about it and deny the Holocaust next, stupid.
The same horror, eh?

What a prick.

Political correctness, incorrect as always.




posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:17 AM
link   

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

And again I say, that you have failed time and again to accept the history of this flag, or the slightest information about it in this thread.

Yes, it was ADOPTED by the Dixiecrats, but it did not belong to them then, and does not belong to them now. You do not have permission to judge those who fly it based on your ignorant and ill informed understanding of history, and even if you had a better grasp of history than that possessed by your average 20oz hammer, you would still not be permitted to judge others reasons for what they do, or their intent in doing them.

Just because a person likes a flag, respects their heritage, and is not afraid to delve into the realities of their history does not make them a bad person. Please educate yourself properly before commenting further, and spreading your vitriol all over the place.


It was only after the dixiecrats used it did it become known as the the flag representing the confederacy, and it was only after their pro segregation protest did it become a popular symbol in American southern culture, as a protest to desegregation. People can call it whatever they want now but thats what the flag was used for and how it got its popularity. To put on KKK robes and say its not racist is the height of ignorance just like waving the navy jack confederate flag promoted by the dixiecrats. If people are waving the same symbolism they were how can they say its for a different purpose other than to be racist just like the dixiecrats? If anyone was serious about thier heratage they would know the navy jack never even once was the real confederate flag in fact it was rejected by them.


All true, but when you consider that the Flag originated as General Lee's battle flag...I'd say the first time the flag flew as a symbol of racism and oppression was when the final stitch was sewn 160 years ago.

That uncomfortable truth is why we see a resurgence of the revisionist history with folks trying to explain that the Civil War was not about slavery...That is painfully ignorant BS. You can say it was about economics...yes...the economics of the south amassing wealth through slavery...you can say it was about "State Rights"...yes ..the Southern States Right's to keep slaves. The Civil War is the most thoroughly documented war the USA has ever engaged in and the reasons the South gave for war are not in question.

Now...the way symbols work...is that each person assigns their own meaning. I have no doubt that some see the Confederate flag as a symbol of heritage or "rebel" status...I also have no doubt that number is smaller than what people claim as many a racist will hide behind the "heritage not hate" argument.

Every individual has a right to see that flag how they choose and to fly it as they choose, but a flag that was proudly flown at lynchings and KKK rallies, a flag first sewn to defend the right to oppress and enslave...has no business on US government grounds.

As for personal expression..tats, trucks, homes and t-shirts...have at it. Free expression is the life blood of this country, but don't expect everyone you meet to see the flag the same way you do...just like you might not see it the same way they do.


Nicely put, however some may equate it to having a Jihad ISIL flag or something like that then saying oh we dont want death to America. . . . At that point when people are being killed by terrorists using the symbols we have to start lumping others in with the same types of behavior.

How did that 21 year old kid get indoctronated with terrorist propaganda and go on a murdering rampage? Simple we allowed it to happen, we as a society cannot afford to keep having racist terrorist mass murders promote thier propaganda. At this point the confederate flag is a tool of racist groups to promote the same extreamist agendas of pro segregation. It needs to stop because it threatens to inflict harm on innocents through hate crimes.

There is freedom of speech which we all have however it doesnt give people freedom to incite violence and discriminate based on race, which the confederate flag(Navy Jack) clearly does thanks to the dixiecrats.
edit on 14-7-2015 by FormOfTheLord because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:37 AM
link   

originally posted by: irishhaf
a reply to: Indigo5

Pick 1 point I was off on congrats... I stand corrected on that single point...

What about Jackson, forrest, and Davis?

I don't mind being corrected...



It's not my place to give you a history lesson, nor do I think me continuing to debunk your claims is the best way for you to discover truth.

Jackson? He was a Military talent before the war, a southerner and a very religious man. He believed strongly in the biblical view of slavery and an obligation to be a "good master". The fact that he taught African Americans to read the bible, or that he only had a handful of slaves as house help (not owning a plantation)...does not somehow erase the reality that he enthusiastically led Confederate armies in a bid to preserve slavery. He honestly thought African Americans were destined by God to be slaves and would suffer without white masters. There is no evidence that he opposed slavery, just the opposite...He just wasn't beating and whipping his slaves and had no necessity for a large slave population as he had no plantation to run.

As for Forrest...He owned hundreds of slaves and earned a living as a slave trader..Plus


He served as the first Grand Wizard (head of movement) of the Ku Klux Klan, but later distanced himself from the organization.

Forrest was accused of war crimes at the Battle of Fort Pillow for allowing forces under his command to massacre hundreds of black Union Army and white Southern Unionist prisoners.

"In the spring of 1867, Forrest and his dragoons launched a campaign of midnight parades; 'ghost' masquerades; and 'whipping' and even 'killing Negro voters and white Republicans, to scare blacks off voting and running for office.'"


Now...in 1875...Bedford Forrest had a religious epiphany after some suffering post-war and did speak to a collection of African Americans with reconciliatory tone. It's possible he had a change of heart.

But as for the war? and immediately following it? he was a racist through and through during that time.

Tons of stuff to be researched for your own illumination..
en.wikipedia.org...
cwmemory.com... (Read Comments section...historians discussion)

I'll let you discover Davis on your own.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:39 AM
link   
a reply to: Indigo5

It's funny. Get over yourself. And before you call me a white racist bigot, I'm part Native American lesbian. Learn to laugh a little, will ya?



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:44 AM
link   
I live as far from the south as you can imagine, yet I see the confederate flags on my neighbors vehicles.
Yet the culture where I am protected runaway slaves that made it this far north. Nobody supported slavery up here, then why do they show the confederate flag, I just think they want to show people they are non-conformists. And they just like how it looks.
People view that flag different all over the world, I would never display one personally, but I am going to defend the right of people to display it, because if they outlaw that, I am really scared of what they are coming for next.

I am afraid some aren't seeing the larger picture.


edit on 14-7-2015 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:44 AM
link   
Maybe we should just criminalize America and all things American. After all, America DID commit one of the greatest acts of genocide in the history of the world. Slavery isn't cool but neither is the systematic murder of millions of native peoples. The psychology of some of these folks baffle me.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:47 AM
link   

originally posted by: Khaleesi
a reply to: Indigo5

It's funny. Get over yourself. And before you call me a white racist bigot, I'm part Native American lesbian. Learn to laugh a little, will ya?



None of that make you immune to being racist.

Racists come in all colors, as well as gender or sexual orientations, and racism isnt a laughing matter, people die and have died over it. It needs to stop period.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:53 AM
link   

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: spirit_horse


Ooops! He must be racist!


Racist...No, he doesn't look racist. He looks 80% drunk and 20% crazy and 100% fearless. Good for him.

She...on the other hand...looks not too pleased that her friend chose to take the "novelty Picture" of her standing next to a real, live black man!

Too funny...Looking at her expression leaves no doubt how she feels about the picture.



You are really reaching. This is a static image. She could just as easily be just taking a sip of beer (I assume) and her lips are slightly pursed in that action. Maybe if you had a video, you could get a better idea by her actions but plenty of people are caught 'inbetween' during a picture. For examples look at all the crazy expressions of politicians where they have taken a video and stopped it at just the right moment to make them look crazy, mad etc.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:53 AM
link   
All swastikas are "Nazi" swastikas. I'd like to go out today wearing a shirt with the Hindu or Buddhist swastika emblazoned on it and see what happens! lol "Oh. no no no! This isn't a Nazi swastika. It's a Jewish swastika! No? Ok. It's a Hopi swastika! No? Christian? Umm... Ceylon? Bali? #!!! Help!!

a reply to: PublicOpinion



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:57 AM
link   

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

And again I say, that you have failed time and again to accept the history of this flag, or the slightest information about it in this thread.

Yes, it was ADOPTED by the Dixiecrats, but it did not belong to them then, and does not belong to them now. You do not have permission to judge those who fly it based on your ignorant and ill informed understanding of history, and even if you had a better grasp of history than that possessed by your average 20oz hammer, you would still not be permitted to judge others reasons for what they do, or their intent in doing them.

Just because a person likes a flag, respects their heritage, and is not afraid to delve into the realities of their history does not make them a bad person. Please educate yourself properly before commenting further, and spreading your vitriol all over the place.


It was only after the dixiecrats used it did it become known as the the flag representing the confederacy, and it was only after their pro segregation protest did it become a popular symbol in American southern culture, as a protest to desegregation. People can call it whatever they want now but thats what the flag was used for and how it got its popularity. To put on KKK robes and say its not racist is the height of ignorance just like waving the navy jack confederate flag promoted by the dixiecrats. If people are waving the same symbolism they were how can they say its for a different purpose other than to be racist just like the dixiecrats? If anyone was serious about thier heratage they would know the navy jack never even once was the real confederate flag in fact it was rejected by them.


All true, but when you consider that the Flag originated as General Lee's battle flag...I'd say the first time the flag flew as a symbol of racism and oppression was when the final stitch was sewn 160 years ago.

That uncomfortable truth is why we see a resurgence of the revisionist history with folks trying to explain that the Civil War was not about slavery...That is painfully ignorant BS. You can say it was about economics...yes...the economics of the south amassing wealth through slavery...you can say it was about "State Rights"...yes ..the Southern States Right's to keep slaves. The Civil War is the most thoroughly documented war the USA has ever engaged in and the reasons the South gave for war are not in question.

Now...the way symbols work...is that each person assigns their own meaning. I have no doubt that some see the Confederate flag as a symbol of heritage or "rebel" status...I also have no doubt that number is smaller than what people claim as many a racist will hide behind the "heritage not hate" argument.

Every individual has a right to see that flag how they choose and to fly it as they choose, but a flag that was proudly flown at lynchings and KKK rallies, a flag first sewn to defend the right to oppress and enslave...has no business on US government grounds.

As for personal expression..tats, trucks, homes and t-shirts...have at it. Free expression is the life blood of this country, but don't expect everyone you meet to see the flag the same way you do...just like you might not see it the same way they do.


Nicely put, however some may equate it to having a Jihad ISIL flag or something like that then saying oh we dont want death to America. . . . At that point when people are being killed by terrorists using the symbols we have to start lumping others in with the same types of behavior.


Sure..."we" can choose to "lump others in with that behavior"...but opinions and actions are two separate things.

I would be deeply uncomfortable with an ISIL parade in some USA city, complete with an ISIL flag. I would be OK with the FBI et al. running around snapping pics and trying to identify and track everyone marching and waving that flag. I would cheer on counter protestors etc.

But the minute we allow the police to outlaw that demonstration...or the ISIL flag....we are effed as a nation and that is worse than any terrorist attack.



originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
How did that 21 year old kid get indoctronated with terrorist propaganda and go on a murdering rampage? Simple we allowed it to happen, we as a society cannot afford to keep having racist terrorist mass murders promote thier propaganda. At this point the confederate flag is a tool of racist groups to promote the same extreamist agendas of pro segregation. It needs to stop because it threatens to inflict harm on innocents through hate crimes.


"we as a society cannot afford to keep having racist terrorist mass murders promote thier propaganda."

YES...We can. It might be pricey at times, but not so costly as living in a country where the government determines what ideas are safe or unsafe for us.

We can address hate and propaganda by combating it on the battlefield of free ideas, free speech and free expression and if as a country we lose that battle then we get the country we deserve.

The idea that government is needed to ban "free expression" it finds dangerous is premised on a general lack of faith in "we the people"...chin-up...we are better than the worst of us and have survived much, much worse intolerance and hate...take the long view...look where we were 40 years ago...60...100..200..

Good wins out...if we start cheating and ask the referee (government) to decide for us...we all lose...forever.




There is freedom of speech which we all have however it doesnt give people freedom to incite violence and discriminate based on race, which the confederate flag(Navy Jack) clearly does thanks to the dixiecrats.


No..they can not "incite violence"
"Discriminate on race"...yes in private life and free public expression...no in government and commerce.
No..."the confederate flag" doesn't Discriminate or incite violence...it is cloth..people discriminate and incite violence...once we ban a symbol from free expression...what symbol comes next? and then next?

Symbols don't kill..thus banning the confederate flag is whack-a-mole where when we are done we have sacrificed a pillar of our democracy (free expression) and those that seek violence and hate remain.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:59 AM
link   

originally posted by: Khaleesi
a reply to: Indigo5

It's funny. Get over yourself. And before you call me a white racist bigot, I'm part Native American lesbian. Learn to laugh a little, will ya?



It's funny...and I do laugh...

I also found your post above funny...

never thought you were a white, racist, bigot...don't know you. Maybe you should reserve the "get over yourself" bit for folks you know?



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 11:03 AM
link   

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: spirit_horse


Ooops! He must be racist!


Racist...No, he doesn't look racist. He looks 80% drunk and 20% crazy and 100% fearless. Good for him.

She...on the other hand...looks not too pleased that her friend chose to take the "novelty Picture" of her standing next to a real, live black man!

Too funny...Looking at her expression leaves no doubt how she feels about the picture.



You ever hear of PLAYING TO THE CAMERA? And also. how do you know what shes really thinking?I can smile in your face and at the same time murdering you in my mind and you would not be the wiser. So take that crap elsewhere.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 11:05 AM
link   

originally posted by: Khaleesi

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: spirit_horse


Ooops! He must be racist!


Racist...No, he doesn't look racist. He looks 80% drunk and 20% crazy and 100% fearless. Good for him.

She...on the other hand...looks not too pleased that her friend chose to take the "novelty Picture" of her standing next to a real, live black man!

Too funny...Looking at her expression leaves no doubt how she feels about the picture.



You are really reaching. This is a static image. She could just as easily be just taking a sip of beer (I assume) and her lips are slightly pursed in that action. Maybe if you had a video, you could get a better idea by her actions but plenty of people are caught 'inbetween' during a picture. For examples look at all the crazy expressions of politicians where they have taken a video and stopped it at just the right moment to make them look crazy, mad etc.


Yah...It was kind of tongue in cheek...so I think you agree the pic shows nothing clearly without a story?

That said...her expression communicates something to me..I am Ok with you seeing something different



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 11:05 AM
link   

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
I live as far from the south as you can imagine, yet I see the confederate flags on my neighbors vehicles.
Yet the culture where I am protected runaway slaves that made it this far north. Nobody supported slavery up here, then why do they show the confederate flag, I just think they want to show people they are non-conformists. And they just like how it looks.
People view that flag different all over the world, I would never display one personally, but I am going to defend the right of people to display it, because if they outlaw that, I am really scared of what they are coming for next.

I am afraid some aren't seeing the larger picture.



The larger picture is eventually the sh## is gonna hiit the fan and they will be comming for the guns and other things deemed terrorist stuff. Question is what are people going to do about it? Nothing at all other than roll over and take it. I think racist symbols that promote segragation, slavery, and racism have no place in our society as it breeds hate. The big picture I see is people getting riled up with fear and will eventually lash out at the powers that be. The next step if the powers that be hitting people with more and more regulations. This will continue on and people will use things like this to rally behind. The confederate naval jack flag in on the wrong side of history and those who are in support of it are doomed to failure. I say pick your battles wisely and know when your in the wrong. . . . Racism is wrong.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 11:06 AM
link   

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: spirit_horse


Ooops! He must be racist!


Racist...No, he doesn't look racist. He looks 80% drunk and 20% crazy and 100% fearless. Good for him.

She...on the other hand...looks not too pleased that her friend chose to take the "novelty Picture" of her standing next to a real, live black man!

Too funny...Looking at her expression leaves no doubt how she feels about the picture.



You ever hear of PLAYING TO THE CAMERA? And also. how do you know what shes really thinking?I can smile in your face and at the same time murdering you in my mind and you would not be the wiser. So take that crap elsewhere.


Puhleese...the pic was "the crap" ..if the poster didn't want it to be interpreted then don't effen post with purpose.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 11:06 AM
link   

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Indigo5

A true conservative wants the constitution to remain the same,hence conserving it.


Any sentence that begins with.."A true conservative".."A true liberal".."A true loyalaist"..."A true patriot"..."A true" whatever...is apt to be followed by BS and your post is no exception.

And no...the "Conserve" in "Conservative" does not reference the constitution.

I'll let you discover that history on your own. Hint, pre-segregation,...the southern democrats were the vast bulk of the conservative party...and what Americans call "Conservatism" now, other parts of the world call Liberalism or neoliberalism.




NOPE you are wrong ill drop you the definition of it and the page its from. It does mean to preserve.

true meaning of conservative by the dictionary


That doesn't say anything about Conservatives being named such for wanting to "Conserve" the constitution as you claimed?

Good luck on your journey of discovery..


Being intentionally obtuse is low you know. You know that im right but You wont admit it which is really really weak and shows your pure bias.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 11:29 AM
link   
As America's “elite” social engineers continue in their passionate self-serving efforts to dismantle America the Constitutional Republic, it is wise for this nation's citizens to carefully examine an unfolding of the Confederate false flag attack! –- lest we be led like naive cattle, into a cold-blooded slaughter of the next American Civil War.



“ Historical Ignorance “
Source: www.lewrockwell.com...

“ Tear Down That Monument! “
Source: www.lewrockwell.com...

“ The Real Reason for the Anti-Confederate Flag Hysteria “
Source: www.lewrockwell.com...

“ Is the Civil War Over? “
Source: www.lewrockwell.com...


edit on 14-7-2015 by seasoul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 11:32 AM
link   
a reply to: wizardofcause

To differentiate correctly is something this prof. obviously doesn't like so much. But he did mean the Nazi-swastika at least and their version was a (slightly) twisted copy of the original. Damnd Chinese Nazi-Copycats.



But you brought up another valid point as you mentioned the murican genocide. With all this history in mind I do feel the same horror, looking at the Nazi-flag, as I can feel when looking at Stars 'n Stripes. But I would never go on to compare both, reducing all the other meanings they contain and represent. But this comparision would actually hold more water than one with the Conf. flag if you ask me.


Cheers!



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 11:39 AM
link   
a reply to: Blue_Jay33




People view that flag different all over the world, I would never display one personally, but I am going to defend the right of people to display it, because if they outlaw that, I am really scared of what they are coming for next.


I can see that coming, too. Good point.

Did they already propose a bill to outlaw the flag or did we just witness the Newspeak_ish way this new agenda presented itself?



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 11:47 AM
link   
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

According to Civilwar.com/Confederate Flag history


The First Confederate Navy Jack consisted of a circle of seven 5-pointed white stars on a field of light blue. The Second Confederate Navy Jack is a rectangular precursor of the battle flag, usually about 5×3 feet. The blue color in the saltire (the diagonal cross) is much lighter than in the battle flag, and it was flown only on Confederate ships from 1863 to 1865.

The design was originally made by South Carolina Congressman William Porcher Miles with the intent to be the first national flag, but it was rejected by the Confederate government. Some critics supposedly scoffed at the design, saying it looked too much like crossed suspenders. While the square battle flag was widely used, the rectangular upside down and, the oblong version was also used by some army units, including the Army of Tennessee as their battle flag from 1864-1865. After General Joseph Johnston took command of the Army of Tennessee from Braxton Bragg, he ordered its army-wide implementation to improve morale and avoid confusion.

The second national flag was adapted as a naval ensign, using a shorter 3:2 ratio than the 2:1 ratio adopted by the Confederate Congress for the national flag. This particular ensign was the only one taken around the world (on board CSS Shenandoah) and was the last Confederate flag lowered in the Civil War (in Liverpool, England on 7 November 1865 on board CSS Shenandoah).



So it appears you are wrong in your statement about the dixicrats inventing it.

Unless of course you can provide some form of.....you know....proof for your claims?
edit on 7 14 2015 by stosh64 because: bold



new topics

top topics



 
61
<< 13  14  15    17  18  19 >>

log in

join