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originally posted by: ABNARTY
a reply to: reldra
No one argues improving as a nation is a bad thing.
However, removal or addition of symbols in our culture has little affect on our history, what is in people's hearts, or what they do to each other. So what really is the victory here?
To think somehow this is some 'moment in history' where we as a people have changed direction is silly. No, you do not claim that in the OP. It is a broad brush observation from a few weeks of the social media deluge on the subject. Sorry to conflate ideas on the thread but it is germane.
There is little to no way to repair wrong doings in history by feel-good gestures. What's done is done. In this case slavery ended. The Confederacy was abolished. The Union was upheld. The US suffered more causalities to do so than the remainder of its wars combined. Flying a flag or not flying a flag changes none of that.
What bothers me a great deal is America seems to have forgotten the details of how we arrived here like they mean nothing. Three amendments to the Constitution are inconsequential. Instead, we beat up a decades old TV show and claim the moral high ground.
originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: FormOfTheLord
That's the most asinine thing I've seen all day. You've completely reversed your own comment.
When was the battle flag created? 1861 or 1948? Can you pick one and stick with it please?
SCV was created in the 1890s, and carried the battle flag even then. Was it on their logo? No idea, but the veterans identified with the battle flag more than any of the CSA flags, so they didn't use those.
Know your history indeed, "dude."
The "Confederate flag"
A rectangularized variant of the Army of Northern Virginia battle flag, common in modern reproductions. (A similar flag was used during the war by the Army of Tennessee under General Joseph E. Johnston.) Designed by William Porcher Miles, the chairman of the Flag and Seal committee, a now-popular variant of the Confederate flag was rejected as the national flag in 1861. It was instead adopted as a battle flag by the Army of Northern Virginia under General Robert E. Lee. Despite never having historically represented the CSA as a country nor officially recognized as one of the national flags, it is commonly referred to as "the Confederate Flag" and has become a widely recognized symbol of the American south
originally posted by: reldra
originally posted by: SgtHamsandwich
The "Stars and Bars" in your op was the first Confederate Flag. It was used from 1861 to 1863. There were 4 designs with 7, 9, 11, and the final with 13 stars.
In 1863, William T. Thompson designed the "Stainless Banner" that was used from 1863 to 1865. It was a marrige of the battle flag on a stark white field. It's meaning was purely racist.
WillIam T. Thompson's own words:
"As a people, we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.… Such a flag…would soon take rank among the proudest ensigns of the nations, and be hailed by the civilized world as the white mans flag.… As a national emblem, it is significant of our higher cause, the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity, and barbarism. Another merit in the new flag is, that it bears no resemblance to the now infamous banner of the Yankee vandals."
In 1865 they updated the design to "The Blood-Stained Banner" as they thought the "Stainless Banner" could be mistaken as a symbol of truce.
So in short the "Battle Flag" WAS represented on official Confederate Flags and is tied to racism and all the heritage that everyone is fighting about and trying to deny.
Doesn't matter how many states right's were being fought over. Slavery was one of those so the rest doesn't matter in the overall picture of the so called heritage of the souther states.
The mute point in all of this mess that no one seems to get is the entire (WHITE) US at the time, north, south, front to back was racist. So none of this flag crap really matters because technicaly everyone waving the US flag at the time was racist as well.
You have no sources and you are incorrect.