The Flag That People Are Arguing About is NOT The Confederate Flag

I mainly responded to this thread to tell you sir that I love your avatar but since I'm here I would like to add that I have the same recollection as you of spending my youth in the south. We are almost exactly the same age too and it was as you say all smiles and howdy doo's in public and something else behind closed doors. Different folks grudgingly getting along with a smile while bitchin and whining behind closed doors.



a reply to: SgtHamsandwich

a reply to: TrappedPrincessThat is life everywhere, not just the south

originally posted by: bama76
reply to: SgtHamsandwich
What part of nw alabama was that?
I'm not questioning you it may be somewhere I'm not familiar with.

Marion County. Little town called Guin. I went to M.C.H.S, home of the Red Raiders.

a reply to: SgtHamsandwich

I know that area and it is about 50% racial in the early 90's it did have a skinhead problem but they have since past rules that links members of groups like that responsible for the actions of one so they left to go out west. So I see where your coming from I'm between Tuscaloosa and birmingham. So it's a little different than there in the 90's but most all that has gone out west now. Because the people realized it was old believe and didn't do nothing but hurt them in the long run

originally posted by: reldra

The flag that actually was flying on the South Carolina statehouse and decorated the General lee vehicle, was directly used for racist reasons. Therefore, should also not be flying from government property.

news.yahoo.com...

If you read the article, it seems the flag was removed. It was voted on, and the appropriate people fulfilled the will of the people. What exactly is your complaint here?

Hell, it looks like the General Lee from the Dukes of Hazzard, is loosing it's flag too.
www.yahoo.com...

Is there any other symbols you feel need to be removed from sight?

originally posted by: TrappedPrincess
I mainly responded to this thread to tell you sir that I love your avatar but since I'm here I would like to add that I have the same recollection as you of spending my youth in the south. We are almost exactly the same age too and it was as you say all smiles and howdy doo's in public and something else behind closed doors. Different folks grudgingly getting along with a smile while bitchin and whining behind closed doors.

I feel that's part of why so many folks are hell bent on defending the flag. It's not really a confederacy issue. People just don't wan't to be labeled a racist whether they are or not. I don't have a problem with telling people I was a racist. That's a part of my past I can't change. I can only change the future.

No matter what that flag was or where is came from, what matters is what its been turned into by white supremacist. Over the years that has faded and the flag has been romanticised and has become a symbol of Southern Pride. Southerners are proud people and I'm proud to be from the south. It's unfortunate that that same flag was also adopted for that purpose.

Now all of a sudden a hate crime is commited and the negitive side of the flag is back in the lime light and you have thousands if not millions of folks standing their holding their little flags and are being questioned on their stance of racism and in the name of being P.C. (the irony is astounding I know) they don't want to be labeled a racist so they lash out trying to defend why they were caught with their pants down waving that flag.

a reply to: reldra

No one argues improving as a nation is a bad thing.

However, removal or addition of symbols in our culture has little affect on our history, what is in people's hearts, or what they do to each other. So what really is the victory here?

To think somehow this is some 'moment in history' where we as a people have changed direction is silly. No, you do not claim that in the OP. It is a broad brush observation from a few weeks of the social media deluge on the subject. Sorry to conflate ideas on the thread but it is germane.

There is little to no way to repair wrong doings in history by feel-good gestures. What's done is done. In this case slavery ended. The Confederacy was abolished. The Union was upheld. The US suffered more causalities to do so than the remainder of its wars combined. Flying a flag or not flying a flag changes none of that.

What bothers me a great deal is America seems to have forgotten the details of how we arrived here like they mean nothing. Three amendments to the Constitution are inconsequential. Instead, we beat up a decades old TV show and claim the moral high ground.

originally posted by: rexsblues

Also, that flag is also the current flag of the great state of Georgia. I suppose it'll have to go too, what's next yall gonna blow up Stone Mountain?

What flag do you think is the state flag of Georgia?

This is it..



As to Stone Mountain, that's a part of history and history is made up of the good and the bad. Nothing wrong with leaving Stone Mountain just as it is, as long as it teaches the lessons history has to teach.


ETA: As to the KKK, there were far more that I actually met living in NY state than living in Georgia, but that's neither here no there.

I will say this: It is racist as all hell in Georgia. And not just on one side either.

originally posted by: bama76
a reply to: SgtHamsandwich

I know that area and it is about 50% racial in the early 90's it did have a skinhead problem but they have since past rules that links members of groups like that responsible for the actions of one so they left to go out west. So I see where your coming from I'm between Tuscaloosa and birmingham. So it's a little different than there in the 90's but most all that has gone out west now. Because the people realized it was old believe and didn't do nothing but hurt them in the long run

Yeah, I have a cousin that was a skinhead. With all his Nazi and Rebel flag tattoo's and what knot. He is a dumba$$ though. We are the same age and grew up together and were like brothers. We graduated and I moved to Ohio and he stayed down there and got mixed up in all that crap. I have a family, a beautiful daughter, house, living the American dream. Him on the other hand, sitting in prison for attemped murder (non-hate related lol) It's all about who you let into your life.

The battle flag was never adopted by the Confederate Congress, never flew over any state capitols during the Confederacy, and was never officially used by Confederate veterans' groups. The flag probably would have been relegated to Civil War museums if it had not been resurrected by the resurgent KKK and used by Southern Dixiecrats during the 1948 presidential election.
en.wikipedia.org...



Most people dont know the dixiecrats made the current confederate flag in the year 1948 as a protest to not being able to lynch black people. They had a big riot, and it was a protest to the end of segregation, the flag was made to promote segregation literaly. It has zero to do with the confederacy, and everything to do with being pro segregation. Made in 1948 it is indeed a symbol of hate, call it what you will but that doesnt change what its orgins were. That flag represents slavery and unequality and always gets a thumbs down.

That is one of the most true and best statement ive heard in on here. Ive lived all over and im planning on moving again in the next few months away from alabama. Looking at the pacific northwest they have good jobs and good pay. Its sad what has become of alabama or ive just grown to think for myself and realize the faults.
reply to: SgtHamsandwich

a reply to: Logarock

Who is going after the American flag and wanting to put the communist flag up?

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: rexsblues

Also, that flag is also the current flag of the great state of Georgia. I suppose it'll have to go too, what's next yall gonna blow up Stone Mountain?

What flag do you think is the state flag of Georgia?

This is it..

I'm confused? what do you mean "think"? I know that's the flag of my state. That's why I pointed it out, in reference to the OP... ho do you miss that?

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Why does everybody keep trying to say no veterans group has ever used the battle flag?

It's on the main page of one veterans descendants group. The same group that used to have license plates set aside for their group. They've been using it for years and years. And years. And years.

Stumbling right out of the gate.

a reply to: spoonbender


A distraction from what? That is the question.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Why does everybody keep trying to say no veterans group has ever used the battle flag?

It's on the main page of one veterans descendants group. The same group that used to have license plates set aside for their group. They've been using it for years and years. And years. And years.

Stumbling right out of the gate.

Dude please look at accurate history the confederate flag being used now only came into existance in 1948 and was made specifically to protest desegregation. It was part of a pro segregation movement championed by the KKK along with the dixiecrats because they wanted to continue to lynch African Americans. It was never ever used by the confederacy during the war, it never represented the confederacy and still doesnt. The flag was only made to promote racism in 1948 by the dixiecrats, people saying its not racist or means something other than being pro segregation are just deluded and dont know what the #### they are talking about.

KNOW YOUR HISTORY DENY IGNORANCE

originally posted by: SgtHamsandwich
The "Stars and Bars" in your op was the first Confederate Flag. It was used from 1861 to 1863. There were 4 designs with 7, 9, 11, and the final with 13 stars.

In 1863, William T. Thompson designed the "Stainless Banner" that was used from 1863 to 1865. It was a marrige of the battle flag on a stark white field. It's meaning was purely racist.

WillIam T. Thompson's own words:

"As a people, we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.[4]… Such a flag…would soon take rank among the proudest ensigns of the nations, and be hailed by the civilized world as the white mans flag.[5]… As a national emblem, it is significant of our higher cause, the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity, and barbarism. Another merit in the new flag is, that it bears no resemblance to the now infamous banner of the Yankee vandals."

In 1865 they updated the design to "The Blood-Stained Banner" as they thought the "Stainless Banner" could be mistaken as a symbol of truce.

So in short the "Battle Flag" WAS represented on official Confederate Flags and is tied to racism and all the heritage that everyone is fighting about and trying to deny.

Doesn't matter how many states right's were being fought over. Slavery was one of those so the rest doesn't matter in the overall picture of the so called heritage of the souther states.

The mute point in all of this mess that no one seems to get is the entire (WHITE) US at the time, north, south, front to back was racist. So none of this flag crap really matters because technicaly everyone waving the US flag at the time was racist as well.

You have no sources and you are incorrect.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: reldra

The flag that actually was flying on the South Carolina statehouse and decorated the General lee vehicle, was directly used for racist reasons. Therefore, should also not be flying from government property.

news.yahoo.com...

If you read the article, it seems the flag was removed. It was voted on, and the appropriate people fulfilled the will of the people. What exactly is your complaint here?

Hell, it looks like the General Lee from the Dukes of Hazzard, is loosing it's flag too.
www.yahoo.com...

Is there any other symbols you feel need to be removed from sight?

I know it was removed. Did you see my post ask for further removals?

a reply to: SgtHamsandwich

I call Bs.

Because you lived in a crap area you want to paint millions of current day southerners as racist...

No wonder you buy the idea that the 1% in the 1860s reflected the southern people.

Eta: I was born and raised in the south and spent most of my 42 years in the south..Are there bad areas sure... But I've seen larger bad areas in the north and on both coasts.

Majority of my family is from Pittsburgh, that's one of the most racist towns I've been in.

FL, Louisiana, Oklahoma, I've seen more interracial couples than I've ever seen up north or in the "enlightened " coast lines.

a reply to: rexsblues I have never said anything about southern, white males. However, you have no say in when an issue is through with discussion.