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The Flag That People Are Arguing About is NOT The Confederate Flag

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posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 06:06 AM
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This is the confederate flag :
it had at times 7,9, 11 or 13 stars. The "Crossed Bar Flag" was used on a couple of naval ships and or was the flag of Robert E. Lee's regiment. It was rarely seen during the civil war..a war the Confederacy lost, a war lost by people who were not Americans at the time.

The "crossed bar flag" is directly connected to racism. It was favored by the KKK.
SOURCE

"I study flags, so I'm a nitpicker," Hartvigsen says. In fact, he notes, the primary flag used by the Confederacy was the so-called "Stars and Bars," which resembles an American flag with fewer stripes – not the emblem widely circulated by white supremacists and Southern nostalgists in later years. "What we're calling the Confederate flag, the rectangular one, really wasn't flown during the Civil War except on a few naval vessels," he says. "It was picked up by some veterans' groups after the war, and then used by the Ku Klux Klan."


[url=http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/22/416548613/the-complicated-political-history-of-the-confederate-flag]npr history of this flag
"It was also the symbol of the States' Rights Democratic Party, or "Dixiecrats," that formed in 1948 to oppose civil-rights platforms of the Democratic Party.

The actual Confederate Flag shouldn't be on government property, the flag of non-americans that lost a war. It wasn't just a civil war,remember, they formed The Confederacy. They left the country.

The flag that actually was flying on the South Carolina statehouse and decorated the General lee vehicle, was directly used for racist reasons. Therefore, should also not be flying from government property.





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edit on 12-7-2015 by reldra because: can't imbed the second link, but it's written out in the post.




posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 06:36 AM
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The "Stars and Bars" in your op was the first Confederate Flag. It was used from 1861 to 1863. There were 4 designs with 7, 9, 11, and the final with 13 stars.

In 1863, William T. Thompson designed the "Stainless Banner" that was used from 1863 to 1865. It was a marrige of the battle flag on a stark white field. It's meaning was purely racist.

WillIam T. Thompson's own words:

"As a people, we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.[4]… Such a flag…would soon take rank among the proudest ensigns of the nations, and be hailed by the civilized world as the white mans flag.[5]… As a national emblem, it is significant of our higher cause, the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity, and barbarism. Another merit in the new flag is, that it bears no resemblance to the now infamous banner of the Yankee vandals."


In 1865 they updated the design to "The Blood-Stained Banner" as they thought the "Stainless Banner" could be mistaken as a symbol of truce.


So in short the "Battle Flag" WAS represented on official Confederate Flags and is tied to racism and all the heritage that everyone is fighting about and trying to deny.

Doesn't matter how many states right's were being fought over. Slavery was one of those so the rest doesn't matter in the overall picture of the so called heritage of the souther states.

The mute point in all of this mess that no one seems to get is the entire (WHITE) US at the time, north, south, front to back was racist. So none of this flag crap really matters because technicaly everyone waving the US flag at the time was racist as well.
edit on 7 12 2015 by SgtHamsandwich because: (no reason given)

edit on 7 12 2015 by SgtHamsandwich because: (no reason given)

edit on 7 12 2015 by SgtHamsandwich because: Because people are to literal.



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 07:09 AM
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People keep painting the entire south based on the actions of the 1%,that makes sense...



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 07:22 AM
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originally posted by: irishhaf
People keep painting the entire south based on the actions of the 1%,that makes sense...


Oh, that's hogwash and complete denial.

I was born and raised in the south, I KNOW how racist it is down there. My family, both sides were racist. Everyone I knew were racist. I was raised and was racist. I sometimes still have issues with that. I have family in the KKK.

No, not everyone in the south is racist, but when the majority is, it paints a bad picture of everyone else. So goes life.

Not everyone from the middle east is a terrorist, but most in America think they are. It only takes 1% to ruin it for eveyone else.



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 07:24 AM
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a reply to: irishhaf


Pay close attention......the are going after Old Glory now.

The Confederate Battle flag is an easy target to start with. But as we see, the target field from the beginning included the Stars and Stripes. The whole US and the whole of US history.

There is only one legitimate flag for these people....and here it is in one of its many forms. The irony is that more blood has been spilled under this flag in the last 80 years than Rome spilled in it history.




posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 07:25 AM
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who's arguing


the whole thing
was and I guess still is
a Distraction....



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 07:33 AM
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originally posted by: SgtHamsandwich

The mute point in all of this mess that no one seems to get is the entire US at the time, north, south, front to back was racist. So none of this flag crap really matters because technicaly everyone waving the US flag at the time was racist as well.



Does that include the African troops, former slaves mostly, that fought along side white troops and under the Northern Flag?



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 07:41 AM
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Enough of this head hunting bull#, it's come to the point that anyone in opposition to this foolishness is a racist.
And to that I say GFYS's.

It's pretty clear by now, if you're a white, straight, male from the southern US, you're the most hated MF'r on the planet. It's getting to where we can't even raise a f'n eye brow without being stoned. Enough already, yall win, shut up. You'll have you're one world utopian government and everybody can jump into big digital orgy of political correctness and we replace every insulting image with a big blank gray square.

You're the loons with the torches and pitch forks, in case you didn't notice.

Also, that flag is also the current flag of the great state of Georgia. I suppose it'll have to go too, what's next yall gonna blow up Stone Mountain?
edit on 12-7-2015 by rexsblues because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 07:52 AM
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originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: SgtHamsandwich

The mute point in all of this mess that no one seems to get is the entire US at the time, north, south, front to back was racist. So none of this flag crap really matters because technicaly everyone waving the US flag at the time was racist as well.



Does that include the African troops, former slaves mostly, that fought along side white troops and under the Northern Flag?


Could I go one day on ATS without someone being a literal nick picker. OBVIOUSLY I'm not talking about African troops/former slaves. FFS!!!!

Most of the ones fighting for the North were forced and the ones that volunteered were doing it in hopes of freeing family still stuck in the south. The ones fighting for the south were doing it in hopes of earning their freedom.

I edited my post to be more clear about who I am talking about because some people can't read ATS with out their blinders on. Now you can hop off your high horse before you fall and hurt yourself.


edit on 7 12 2015 by SgtHamsandwich because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 07:55 AM
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originally posted by: SgtHamsandwich

originally posted by: irishhaf
People keep painting the entire south based on the actions of the 1%,that makes sense...


Oh, that's hogwash and complete denial.

I was born and raised in the south, I KNOW how racist it is down there. My family, both sides were racist. Everyone I knew were racist. I was raised and was racist. I sometimes still have issues with that. I have family in the KKK.

No, not everyone in the south is racist, but when the majority is, it paints a bad picture of everyone else. So goes life.

Not everyone from the middle east is a terrorist, but most in America think they are. It only takes 1% to ruin it for eveyone else.


You must have been born and raised in the South prior to the 70s . I have lived here all my life (a long time) and have encountered very little racism. True . it was bad in the 60s , but has been fading away since. Maybe you should come back to visit for a while. The south has changed in the last 40 years or so . I have to give you no stars and a thumbs down till then




posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 08:03 AM
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a reply to: SgtHamsandwich

I live in the south now. I'm not racist. Not everybody I know is racist. Not everybody I encounter on a daily basis is racist. There are, however, racists in the south. Just as there are racists in the north. And out west. And in Hawaii.

I think you'd be hard pressed to prove the "majority" of people in the south are racist. History would indicate that not ALL whites in the U.S. during the civil war were racist, either.

If you don't want people to nitpick, perhaps it's not a good idea to make broad, sweeping generalized statements when it comes to how people think and feel.




posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 08:14 AM
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a reply to: Gothmog

Nope. I was born in '82. I was a '90's kid.

I was born in Florida and moved to NW Alabama when I was 6. Lived there till I was 18. Spent the summers at my dads in Southern Georgia. Iv'e never been in an area that was not racist.

Their are two sides to it. On the outside, you would never know. Being white was like being in a secert society down there. What was portayed to the outside world was tottaly different that what happened and what was said behind closed doors.

That's why it makes me laugh to watch all my family and friends on facebook that are constantly posting crap defending the flag as not racist when I know damn well they are all racist and scared of loosing their last passive/aggressive symbol of who they really are.

*Disclaimer: Before anyone hammers me about facebook. I use facebook. People use facebook. Get over it. Nobody cares if you think you're cool because you don't use facebook.

Sorry, I am aggitated today.



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 08:31 AM
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originally posted by: SgtHamsandwich

originally posted by: irishhaf
People keep painting the entire south based on the actions of the 1%,that makes sense...


Oh, that's hogwash and complete denial.

I was born and raised in the south, I KNOW how racist it is down there. My family, both sides were racist. Everyone I knew were racist. I was raised and was racist. I sometimes still have issues with that. I have family in the KKK.

No, not everyone in the south is racist, but when the majority is, it paints a bad picture of everyone else. So goes life.

Not everyone from the middle east is a terrorist, but most in America think they are. It only takes 1% to ruin it for eveyone else.


How old are you exactly 130 and haven't stepped foot in the south in the last 100 years?
edit on 12-7-2015 by Greathouse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 08:45 AM
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originally posted by: Greathouse

originally posted by: SgtHamsandwich

originally posted by: irishhaf
People keep painting the entire south based on the actions of the 1%,that makes sense...


Oh, that's hogwash and complete denial.

I was born and raised in the south, I KNOW how racist it is down there. My family, both sides were racist. Everyone I knew were racist. I was raised and was racist. I sometimes still have issues with that. I have family in the KKK.

No, not everyone in the south is racist, but when the majority is, it paints a bad picture of everyone else. So goes life.

Not everyone from the middle east is a terrorist, but most in America think they are. It only takes 1% to ruin it for eveyone else.


How old are you exactly 130 and haven't stepped foot in the south in the last 100 years?


lol...no I'm not that old. See my reply to Gothmog above yours.

Where I come from was VERY racist.

One of the local towns in my county was a whites only community. Anytime any of surrounding towns played their football team at their school, the buses had to be police escorted because we had black students in our schools. The towns folk were ridiculous. This was in the 90's, is it like that now? I have no idea, I have not been down there in a long time.

Sometimes it felt like I was living 100 years ago. At the time all the county's were still dry. Come on now REALLY? lol
edit on 7 12 2015 by SgtHamsandwich because: I can't spell.



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 08:54 AM
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a reply to: SgtHamsandwich

Well your comment is completely unlike the south I've ever lived in. Sure there's racist everywhere but for my part small towns are far more tolerant than larger cities .


But then I've never lived in L. A. ( lower Alabama )



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: reldra

Here is a quote from someone recently assulted for flying the flag:

The flag means basically more independence, less government. It didn't mean racism, it didn't mean slavery, it didn't mean any of that," Jason said. "It basically meant what they were fighting for was their right to be independent and not have the government control them."
Source: www.foxnews.com...

Perhaps the Democrats against the civil rights movement were not so much against segregation as they were against businesses being forced to serve customers they were not interested in serving, independent from government communist controls. Serving a customer is a service. So, serving them is supposed to be voluntary, otherwise you have involuntary servitude, otherwise known as slavery. Slavery is worse than discrimination. Two wrongs don't make a right. So, perhaps they were against their state being forced into compliance by an always overbearing central government rather than they caring about black people staying away from them. You don't know until you ask them, because you don't have a right to shove motivations down other people's throats. So, show me a survey proving otherwise.

While I'm not convinced it was up to the United States government whether local schools, which the federal government has no business regulating, and does not pay for, and isn't supposed to pay for, and is constitutionally barred from being involved in, I am convinced that it is up to private businesses, that don't have no-trespassing signs and are therefore open to the public, about who they chose to serve. States should in fact bar their schools from segregating blacks and whites. Public schools are not supposed to be regulated by the federal government because it isn't a part of the US constitution.

I wasn't around during the 60's, but if Democrat's argument was that black people are bad news, then you are correct about the racism. But I think you are simply wrong, and that their argument was that business owners have a right to their own property, which is true. And I think their argument was that states have a right to regulate their own schools while the federal government is barred from school regulations, which is also true.



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: SgtHamsandwich

I've was born and raised in the south in alabama and what your saying is not even close to being true and I'm older than you. I also served in the military and was stationed in Georgia and it was not like you said either. There was one town in Georgia that may fit that but they were bias on anyone not from there. The most racist placed I have ever lived was in upstate ny. When I lived there I actually heard a guy say to a black guy that was interviewing for the job to look around your not getting hired here. The entire crew was white and the guy didn't get hired. As far as the flag goes the one argued about was the official battle flag the other one at the beginning was the national flag. Also the civil war didn't have much to do with slavery at the beginning of the war it was over farming against factories. The war started in 1860 the president didn't free slaves till 1862 two yrs. Later to get support for the war. Also it only freed slaves in seceded states. Slaves in the northern states was still slaves like in Kentucky.



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 09:33 AM
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originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: SgtHamsandwich

Well your comment is completely unlike the south I've ever lived in. Sure there's racist everywhere but for my part small towns are far more tolerant than larger cities .


But then I've never lived in L. A. ( lower Alabama )


See, that's the double edged sword. Being tolerant and being racist are two seperate things. Were I grew up, we were all very tolerant, but behind closed doors and away from civil rights laws, it was a different story. Well not so much towards the gay community, but that gets into being in the bible belt and the so called word of God, but that a different topic for another day.



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 09:48 AM
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originally posted by: bama76
a reply to: SgtHamsandwich

I've was born and raised in the south in alabama and what your saying is not even close to being true and I'm older than you. I also served in the military and was stationed in Georgia and it was not like you said either. There was one town in Georgia that may fit that but they were bias on anyone not from there. The most racist placed I have ever lived was in upstate ny. When I lived there I actually heard a guy say to a black guy that was interviewing for the job to look around your not getting hired here. The entire crew was white and the guy didn't get hired. As far as the flag goes the one argued about was the official battle flag the other one at the beginning was the national flag. Also the civil war didn't have much to do with slavery at the beginning of the war it was over farming against factories. The war started in 1860 the president didn't free slaves till 1862 two yrs. Later to get support for the war. Also it only freed slaves in seceded states. Slaves in the northern states was still slaves like in Kentucky.


It might not have been true for you, but it was most definitely true for me and where I grew up.



posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to: SgtHamsandwich
What part of nw alabama was that?
I'm not questioning you it may be somewhere I'm not familiar with.
edit on 12-7-2015 by bama76 because: to give reason for asking



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