The 5 year ban.

First of all, apologies in advance if this is in the wrong forum. I am a new member and wasn't quite sure where to post this.
Secondly, the article in the URL I'll supply may be controversial to a degree. So try to keep an open mind.

The author goes by the name 'Steven Kotler' I believe. Whether he's significant or not, I don't know.
Just something random I came to when browsing the interwebs.

Personally I believe he has a valid point. Over-population is a realistic problem. Why else would the government be as it is. They indirectly contribute to the dying population in so many way's.

www.psychologytoday.com...

a reply to: ChaosruptureS420

Over population is nothing more than a bloody lie.

Misuse of resources, use of the wrong resources, misuse of available space, misuse of funds, time, and an over reliance on fossil products are what puts us in a poor position right now. If it were not for these things, there would be no problem what so ever with population.

Further to that, even if we were approaching a population crisis, the correct answer to that is expansion off world, which again, would be happening ALREADY if resources had not been misused for the last God knows how many years.

Wowee, talk about take a hornets nest and kick it into the arena.

I'm getting the popcorn out for this one......

P.S I really do wonder how an idea like that would ever be put into practise in a humane way.

@TrueBrit: you are talking of "ifs and weres", but the point is: the misuse you criticise hasn't changed now and ain't gonna change in the future. And finally there is a point reached where you can't reverse it anymore. Ergo overpopulation *is* a problem. Stop your denial or deceiving yourself as a do-gooder.

Sorry OP, you've given me reason to post my own premise. Keep your eyes on the new threads, yall aint seen nothin yet.

originally posted by: rexsblues
Sorry OP, you've given me reason to post my own premise. Keep your eyes on the new threads, yall aint seen nothin yet.

Hot damn! Now that will be something to tell my grandkids about!

originally posted by: TrueBrit
Over population is nothing more than a bloody lie.

Misuse of resources, use of the wrong resources, misuse of available space, misuse of funds, time, and an over reliance on fossil products are what puts us in a poor position right now. If it were not for these things, there would be no problem what so ever with population.

Further to that, even if we were approaching a population crisis, the correct answer to that is expansion off world, which again, would be happening ALREADY if resources had not been misused for the last God knows how many years.

Misuse of resources is nothing more than a bloody lie.

If it wasn't for overpopulation there would be no problem what so ever!

originally posted by: Subnatural
Misuse of resources is nothing more than a bloody lie.

If it wasn't for overpopulation there would be no problem what so ever!

that is nothing more than a bloody lie!!

the world is such a complex place there is no answer that would solve all the problems.
if our resources were managed properly we would be in a much better place.

ps. overpopulation IS A BLOODY LIE!!!!!!!

a reply to: TrueBrit

I don't know man, i believe it is still an issue. However misuse of everything is definately the biggest reason, you're right with that one.
They could be doing # like; roads/grass that supply's energy, completely economical homes. Hell, even recycling plastic into edible fungi if I remember correctly.

Either way. Over 90 percent of the time all problems on earth are generally caused by greed. Someone's always got to be making money. Y'know, that little currency we invented that gives the wrong people power over the masses.

My point. All it takes is some empathy, common sense and initiative in some way and the whole world could be turned around and be a better place for generations to come. But no, mostly everyone with the money that could make a difference is wasting it. Or spending it on worthless mass produced crap and material possessions. Like, seriously. Do we really need shops all over the world selling # we don't need. Just so the owner can make a quick buck and contribute to the waste of resources.

/ I agree with you entirely.

a reply to: anotherdaytoday

With respect, there are things we could be doing today to increase the future survivability factor of the human race, without population control even coming into it. We could be using every available desert, every arid place as massive solar farms, with parabolic mirrors pointing toward a central tower, where the energy of the sun would heat water, creating steam, which in turn would turn a turbine, which would be connected to a dynamo or similar mechanism, generating electrical power. This measure alone would reduce the necessity for burning fossil fuels to a significant degree.

We could be building houses exclusively out of recycled materials, certainly in the western developed nations, and some Middle Eastern nations, as well as in the Far East and India. This would reduce the need to mine certain minerals used in domestic construction, as well as reducing the amount of material in landfill sites, which would minimise the impact of waste disposal on ecology world wide.

We could be building homes and upgrading existing ones, which do not require attaching to a mains grid, but can generate their own electrical power via solar window technologies, and heat or cool themselves using passive climate control, a series of building techniques and materials which retain heat during cold months, and remain cool during hot months, purely by way of the manner in which they are constructed and the materials used, and using no actual energy in order to acheive the goal.

While options like this are available to us, and they most certainly ARE available, there can be no legitimate call for limits on child birth.

a reply to: TrueBrit

You fail to take into count the first law of economics: "Human greed is insatiable."

All you have to do is look around and you see where this one factor is the cause of most of our problems. It is the backbone of every human action and has no cure save eliminating the carrier or reducing the numbers of.

Looking all the deserts in the world, there is more than enough room for people, case in point, all those ghost cities built in China.
Build downwards, or sideways into mountains, the spoil can be used to create new land at the coast, 10 meters above sea level, for farming.
Vertical farms, roof top farms, underground farms, will all spring up eventually, roof top farms are already here in some big cities, like New York.

a reply to: Aliensun

That is an intensely lazy approach to this situation in my opinion.

I believe it is time that we rolled our sleeves up and solved these things, fought through the greed of the few, and provide for the needs of the many, needs like freedom, liberty, the right of a woman to bear children, the space to bring them up, the time to do so effectively...

We COULD be lazy, and just capitulate to the effects of laziness and greed in horrific combination, but I believe that this is an entirely limp wristed attitude to take, and I do not accept that it has any validity to it what so ever.

a reply to: TrueBrit

IF and I stress, IF governments of this world provided transparency, we would actually know the truth about where we stand with resources vs population.

I think the answer might be a little disturbing though.

There is already situational evidence such as Middle Eastern countries buying large swathes of land here in Australia to produce food to be exported back to them.

www.abc.net.au...


Here's the latest food prodction figures

www.usda.gov...

And projected consumption

www.igc.int...

And check out the forecast production VS consumption - things get real tight around 2020

Remember, there is no new land being created and the dramatic increases in production seen post WW2 were due to new cropping methods i,e, fertilisers, pesticides and most important that behemoth the farm tractor. There have been no real new technologies that increase yields for a while.

If this overpopulation thing is a lie, then something needs to be brought online and fast i.e. massive desal for irrigation in arid land etc.

It is easier to reduce the population than it is to change the way we do things. People will not drive out to the middle of nowhere and start a self sustaining town. They will not make a battery that compares to lead acid in power and energy but lasts 30+ years. They will however find ways to make it impossible to fix your own stuff, then they will try to sell you on the idea that you are just buying a long lease on your computer/car. People will not change and the powers that be will not let them.

The way to fix it is with life like androids. Perfect in every way and very obedient. Safe sex, cheap slaves and lots of free time.... until skynet or we all become morbidly obese but that could be in 2500.

a reply to: markosity1973

Well, it is interesting that you mention land suitable for agriculture.

A good few years ago now, I was watching a documentary, posted by a member here on ATS, which showed that desertification, the encroachment of deserts into what had previously been farmland, can be combated, slowed, and even reversed by planting the right sorts of plants, and leaving the area to green up over a period of a little under a decade. The places featured in the documentary included a location in the Yemen, one in rural China, and some other places as well.

The technique is fascinating, essentially revolving around the ability of plants, over generations, to actually break down and become part of the soil themselves when they die, improving the soil quality no end, and increasing its moisture content by retaining as much water as possible. These things in combination mean that even without terrifying levels of irrigation and effort, the regions which are currently being encroached on by desert could be reclaimed over a relatively short period, and made green again. After that, a cycle of leaving certain areas fallow for a time to ensure they are not too damaged to ever be used for farming again, can be implemented, protecting the site for future use.

There are solutions to every great problem of our age, and all that is necessary to see them come to fruit, is the will to see it done on the part of enough people. With that will, any obstacle can be bought down. Without it, every venture for the betterment of humankind will fail.

Anyone who says we are overpopulated, has not spent any amount of time in the wilderness.

If it wasn't for the government, our life spans wouldn't have increased throughout the last century on average 20 years.

a reply to: ChaosruptureS420

That's all good, but how would anyone enforce such a plan?

originally posted by: superman2012
Anyone who says we are overpopulated, has not spent any amount of time in the wilderness.

If it wasn't for the government, our life spans wouldn't have increased throughout the last century on average 20 years.

That wilderness is necessary as an offset to the areas that are populated. Even if there aren't people there, they impact the wilderness areas in the world to a large degree. While I agree that there are huge tracts of unpopulated land, it is not just square miles of land that people need, but precious resources...things like water, air, food.

Overpopulation was originally a Eugenicists go to argument for killing black people and other minorities in the early 20th century.

Eugenics is a racist, and dangerous line of belief.

Overpopulation is a problem...

Translation:

Sterilize the undesirables, kill those who refuse to comply, euthanize the sick, and steal resources.