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A Closer look at the Greek bailout

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posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 10:35 PM
What are the numbers?

What are the economic demands of the creditors? How will it affect the poor Greeks who are suffering 40 and 50 percent unemployment?

How much do the Banksters really want to cut the already depleted pensions of the Greeks?

How much more taxes on the people, who already hardly have much spending money and they want to enact a VAT tax!

Who are the creditors and where did they get the money to loan to Greece?

Is this a long drawn out setup that goes directly from the 2007-8 world-wide depression right onto the middle of Greek economic issues?

Read this:

Years of such corruption and tax evasion, coupled with reckless expenditure—as a share of G.D.P., for instance, Athens spent almost twice the E.U. average on military purchases—pushed the Greek state into massive budget shortfalls, prompting the government to borrow heavily. In late 2009, the government announced that it had racked up enough debt to be running a deficit of almost thirteen per cent of G.D.P., sparking fears of a default. Greece’s creditors were mostly European banks, which had, in part, used public bailout money following the 2008 credit crunch to scoop up Greek bonds. For example, French and German banks were on the books for thirty-one and twenty-three billion euros, respectively. The troika stepped in during the spring of 2010, and again in 2012, to orchestrate bailouts of the Greek government, offering two hundred and forty billion euros in loans in exchange for a drastic reduction in government spending and other measures to make the Greek economy more competitive. “Understand that this debt is symbolic,” Theocharakis said. “It’s simply too much to ever be paid back fully.”

Read the above closely.

The European bankers brought Greece Bonds in the BILLIONS of EUROS with “ BAILOUT” money…Then this TROIKA(the IMF, European Central Bank and the European Union) comes along when it appears Greece has taken on too much debt( from the European Banks) and this TROIKA wants to give Greece a bailout IF THEY WILL castrate its economy.

So Greece agrees and the TROIKA’S bailout money goes directly to the European banks not to Greece…they don’t even touch or see the money.

The fix or scam here seems to be related to the 2007-8 depression since the European banks used BAILOUT money to buy Greek bonds ( NOW HERE IS THE SCAM): They probably knew the TROIKA would bail them out of the bonds…and certainly knew Greece was in a deep economic bind. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD THEY BUY THESE BONDS?

Another thing read above: “Athens spent almost twice the E.U. average on military purchases—pushed the Greek state into massive budget shortfalls, prompting the government to borrow heavily.”

What is Greece doing buying all these military supplies?

And read this above:

The troika stepped in during the spring of 2010, and again in 2012, to orchestrate bailouts of the Greek government, offering two hundred and forty billion euros in loans in exchange for a drastic reduction in government spending and other measures to make the Greek economy more competitive. “Understand that this debt is symbolic,” Theocharakis said. “It’s simply too much to ever be paid back fully.”

It appears Greece may have been set up

posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 10:50 PM
Europe Offered Greece A Deal To Meet Its Obligations By Cutting Military Spending. The IMF Said No Way

While European leaders and International Monetary Fund representatives continue to blame Greece for the impasse in negotiations over the terms of Greece’s bailout, a Saturday report by the German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitungreveals the IMF vetoed a compromise that cut military spending proposed by the European Commission.

European officials involved in the negotiations told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung that the vetoed proposal, put forward by European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, would have allowed Greece to defer 400 million euros in pension cuts, as long as it cut an equivalent amount from its military budget. The German newspaper reported that German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President François Holland had signed off on Juncker’s compromise plan.

The IMF denied the accounts of the officials who spoke to the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung.
If the report is correct, ideology is playing just as much of a role as arithmetic in preventing a resolution. The IMF's refusal to consider a plan that would lessen pension cuts is consistent with itshistorically neoliberal political philosophy.

The report also belies claims by Greece’s troika of creditors -- the IMF, European Commission and European Central Bank -- that they remain unified in their firm negotiating stance. In addition, it appears to confirm that the IMF is the most hawkish of the three creditor parties.

Military in Greece Is Spared Cuts

Speaking at a meeting of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly in Prague, Mr. Rasmussen added that among the European allies, “only two devoted more than 2 percent of the gross domestic product to defense.”

One of those countries was Greece.

That seems astonishing given that Greece is in a deep economic and financial crisis. Greece’s economy has shrunk by 25 percent over the past two years.

During that time, the middle and lower classes — not the rich business community — have been hit hardest. The International Monetary Fund and the European Commission have imposed stringent austerity measures in return for loan guarantees. As a result, pensions and health care, transportation and education have all been cut drastically.

edit on 10-7-2015 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 10:56 PM
Let's dig a little deeper

The Submarine Deals That Helped Sink Greece

ATHENS—As Greece slashes spending to avoid default, it hasn't moved to skimp on one area: defense.
The deeply indebted Mediterranean nation, whose financial crisis roiled the global financial system this year, is spending more than a billion euros on two submarines from Germany.

It's also looking to spend big on six frigates and 15 search-and-rescue helicopters from France. In recent years, Greece has bought more than two dozen F16 fighter jets from the U.S. at a cost of more than €1.5 billion.

Much of the equipment comes from Germany, the country that has had to shoulder most of the burden of bailing out Greece and has been loudest in condemning Athens for living beyond its means. German Chancellor Angela Merkel has admonished the Greek government "to do its homework" on debt reduction.

The military deals illustrate how Germany and other creditors have in some ways benefited from Greece's profligacy, and how that is coming back to haunt them.

Greece, with a population of just 11 million, is the largest importer of conventional weapons in Europe—and ranks fifth in the world behind China, India, the United Arab Emirates and South Korea. Its military spending is the highest in the European Union as a percentage of gross domestic product. That spending was one of the factors behind Greece's stratospheric national debt.

The German submarine deal in particular, announced in March as the country lurched toward bankruptcy, has cast a spotlight on the Greek military budget and on the foreign vendors supplying the hardware. The deal includes a total of six subs in a complicated transaction that began a decade ago with German firms.

The arms sales are drawing heat from Turkey, Greece's neighbor and arch-rival. "Even those countries trying to help Greece at this time of difficulty are offering to sell them new military equipment," said Egemen Bagis, Turkey's top European Union negotiator, shortly after the sub deal was announced. "Greece doesn't need new tanks or missiles or submarines or fighter planes, neither does Turkey."

Greece's deputy prime minister, Theodore Pangalos, said during an Athens visit in May by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan that he felt "forced to buy weapons we do not need," and that the deals made him feel "national shame."

Other European officials have charged France and Germany with making their military dealings with Greece a condition of their participation in the country's huge financial rescue. French and German officials deny the accusations.

posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 11:24 PM

Greek Debt “Illegal, Illegitimate, and Odious”

Last month the Greek Truth Committee on Public Debt established by Zoi Konstantopoulou the speaker of the Greek parliament “came to the conclusion that Greece should not pay this debt because it is illegal, illegitimate, and odious.”

Most of the loaned €245 did not stay in Greece. More than 90% went directly and immediately to Deutschebank, HSBC, JPMorgan Chase and other banks.

Former Greek Labor and Social Security Minister and chair of the National Bank of Greece Louka Katseli said Greece actually spent a meager 3% of the $275 billion loaned by the banksters.

For a full explanation of the swindle, see “The Troika Swindle: Greeks Owe Nothing” on

TSIPRAS was and is out of his league. He apparently expected according to reliable reports to loose this vote and would have resigned and let a newly elected government bow to the austerity.

He probably at the point of the rejection didn’t want to deal with the uncertainty of leaving the Eurozone.

He didn’t have a plan B

edit on 10-7-2015 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

Earlier reports attributed to Greece’s recently replaced Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis had it that the Syriza leadership had believed that last week’s referendum would never pass and had planned with a ‘yes’ vote to resign and let a new government accept the Troika’s terms. However, the badly played hand simply reaffirmed what was already apparent: the Troika, in particular the Germans, has no regrets for the failed economic policies it has inflicted on the Greek people and sees blind submission to even more failed economic policies as the only response it will accept.
edit on 10-7-2015 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 05:12 AM
Thanks for putting this up

posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 07:09 AM

posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 08:22 PM
Greece Struggles At Bailout Talks To Persuade Creditors Over Reforms

Greece gets its back broke and is now begging

BRUSSELS (AP) -- Bailout discussions between the Greek finance minister and his skeptical counterparts in the 19-country eurozone will resume Sunday after breaking up following more than eight hours of talks without any apparent breakthrough that will secure the country's future in the euro

Greece's finance minister, Euclid Tsakalotos is clearly struggling to convince skeptical creditors that the Greek government can be trusted to deliver on its reform promises in exchange for a financial rescue package securing the country's future in the euro.

The pressure has been on Greece all day even after the Greek parliament passed a harsh austerity package that it hopes will lead to a three-year bailout. Over and over, finance ministers and top officials of the eurozone said the same thing as they arrived for the key meeting in Brussels on Greece's bailout proposals - we don't fully trust you to make good on your promises

No Greece you don't mess with the Gods of the earth and get away free without getting slapped down to the ground!

Greece's left-wing Syriza government, they said, needed to do a lot more than just publish a 13-page plan of reform commitments before they could sign off on another multibillion-euro bailout deal that would keep the country afloat and prevent its exit from the euro.

A European official at the talks said creditors want "more specific and binding commitments" from the Greek government.

They want the Greeks on their knees and begging for succor

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he's not authorized to talk publicly, says there's a general feeling in the room that the Greek proposals are "too little, too late" and as such, more proof of the government's commitment to follow through is required. The official said those pledges don't "necessarily have to be austerity measures."

You wonder what that vote was for?
The Euro masters wont easily forgive the Greeks for that vote. And just may allow the Greeks to starve

"We are still a long way out, both on the issue of content as on the tougher issue of trust," Jeroen Dijsselbloem, the eurozone's top official, said on his arrival at the meeting. "On paper it is not good enough yet - and even if it is good on paper, then we still have the question: will it really happen?"

Greece is running out of time to convince its creditors. A Sunday summit of European Union leaders could be its last chance to prevent the collapse of the banking sector and an inevitable exit from the euro currency.

They have conceded everything to these usurers so what do they want now, the Greeks to give up their children?

Earlier, German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble, who has taken a hard line on Greece over recent months, said the Greek government will have to do a lot more than just say it wants to reform if it's going to get more money.

"We will definitely not be able to rely on promises," he said. "We are determined to not make calculations that everyone knows one cannot believe in."

Schaeuble was clear in who he blamed for current crisis. He put that firmly on the shoulders of the radical left Syriza government that was elected in January on an anti-austerity prescription. The "hopeful" economic situation regarding Greece at the end of last year has been "destroyed by the last months," said Schaeuble who anticipated an "extraordinarily difficult" meeting.

posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 08:35 PM
I remember a few years back, one of the criterias set by France and Germany, for Greece to get those bailouts, was for them to pay their outstanding debts to French and German arms industries with it.

posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 06:39 AM
There is a breach of trust, on the one hand because Greece didn't implement the reforms as agreed in 2012, on the other hand because they voted oxi to reforms.
The news broke that not Greece but France wrote the letter to ESM and formed the package of proposals for Greece.
This package is not very different from the package which Greece voted down.
Surely troika thinks the package is good since they made it.
Lagarde of IMF is france, she has a double hat.

Let's not forget that Greece was in a lot better condition last year in September, rates were down, the economy grew, they had a surplus on their budget.
Al that has vanished since the strikes last November and the elections which Syriza won with the promise to end austerity.

Now 6 months later Greece is a lot worse financially than it was even 5 years ago.
Why would they suddenly reform and have a sound financial policy? they voted oxi and wanted an end to austerity.
There is no trust anymore, but also there is something more serious going on, a crack in the axle of the EU between Germany and france.

If there is an agreement and Greece will get a new bailout, it will probably include strong oversight so that Greece keeps it promises and implement the reforms.

posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 11:00 PM
Greece owes 300 billion Euros

They are strangling them to get a bailout

The new steps under review included a temporary Greek exit from the eurozone, and placing the proceeds from the privatization of Greek assets worth up to 50 billion euros, about $55 billion, in a fund in Luxembourg to help pay down Greece’s huge debt. Similar options were first put forward in a policy paper prepared by the German Finance Ministry, and they have since stirred an angry response from some Greek officials.

Compare a sovereign country (with human beings) to what they gave the banks

#2: How big was the bailout?
Many are still under the impression that TARP = The Bailout.
In fact, TARP was only a small part of the Wall Street bailout. Most of the bailout was accomplished through the Federal Reserve.

The net total? As of November 10, 2011, it was $29,616.4 billion dollars — (or 29 and a half trillion, if you prefer that nomenclature). Three facilities—CBLS, PDCF, and TAF— are responsible for the lion’s share — 71.1% of all Federal Reserve assistance ($22,826.8 billion).

$29 Trillion is around twice the size of America's GDP.
The Federal Reserve claims they only lent $1.7 Trillion to the big banks. Why the huge difference in totals? Because the Fed only counts the most outstanding at any one time.
Here's a quick list of the Fed borrowers:
Citigroup - $2.513 trillion
Morgan Stanley - $2.041 trillion
Merrill Lynch - $1.949 trillion
Bank of America - $1.344 trillion
Barclays PLC - $868 billion
Bear Sterns - $853 billion
Goldman Sachs - $814 billion
Royal Bank of Scotland - $541 billion
JP Morgan Chase - $391 billion
Deutsche Bank - $354 billion
UBS - $287 billion
Credit Suisse - $262 billion
Lehman Brothers - $183 billion
Bank of Scotland - $181 billion
BNP Paribas - $175 billion
Wells Fargo - $159 billion
Dexia - $159 billion
Wachovia - $142 billion
Dresdner Bank - $135 billion
Societe Generale - $124 billion
"All Other Borrowers" - $2.639 trillion

So one of these major too big to fail banks got as much money in the bailout as the whole Greek debt!



edit on 12-7-2015 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-7-2015 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 11:12 PM

If memory serves they continued, while sucking up these bailouts, to give enormous bonuses

posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 11:12 PM

posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 11:13 PM
When are you going to wake up and smell the sh__ in your face!

posted on Jul, 12 2015 @ 11:16 PM
a reply to: Willtell

Don't worry fat balding unfit sociopaths in tailor made suits wont run the world forever,saw a story earlier of Fox that the IMF demands the Greek Prime minister stands down,by the end of all this the sheep will know where they stand.

posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 09:13 AM
They good cop bad copd the guy to dam near death. As one participant admitted:
“They crucified Tsipras in there

This little guy from Greece got waylaid by the elites puppets for austerity.

He never had a chance really.

When he called for the vote on the austerity measures he hoped to get a yes vote to get his self off the hook but the Greeks voted nay, so what does Tsipras do?

He does the opposite of the vote and totally capitulates to the austerity masters

He had no choice they would have probably murdered him if he fought any more

So they got this little man in a room and crucified him!

So next is Spain, Italy, Portugal, and then

AMERICA will be browbeaten into austerity

This will be the deal:

IF the Americans under Hillary or Bush don’t do extreme austerity the elite will force it upon the world through Europe

edit on 13-7-2015 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-7-2015 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 09:36 AM
a reply to: Willtell

S&F for your thread.

Here are the latest comments on resigning finance minister Varoufakis on the recent deal :

"To their consternation, they won, igniting the great Greek revolt of 2015, the moment when the people finally issued a primal scream, daubed their war paint, and formed the hoplite phalanx ... "

"Syriza has been in utter disarray for 36 hours. On Tuesday, the Greek side turned up for a make-or-break summit in Brussels with no plans at all, even though Germany and its allies warned them at the outset that this is their last chance to avert ejection."

On Saturday, as another round of emergency negotiations took place in Brussels, the former Greek Finance Minister, Yanis Varoufakis, wrote exasperatedly in The Guardian: "Greece's financial drama has dominated the headlines for five years for one reason: the stubborn refusal of our creditors to offer essential debt relief …

"In 2010, the Greek state became insolvent. Two options consistent with continuing membership of the eurozone presented themselves: the sensible one, that any decent banker would recommend – restructuring the debt and reforming the economy; and the toxic option – extending new loans to a bankrupt entity while pretending that it remains solvent.

"Official Europe chose the second option, putting the bailing out of French and German banks exposed to Greek public debt above Greece's socioeconomic viability … It takes the mathematical expertise of a smart eight-year-old to know that this process could not end well ...

"Our government was elected on a mandate to end this doom loop; to demand debt restructuring and an end to crippling austerity …

"Greeks, rightly, shiver at the thought of amputation from monetary union … To exit, we would have to create a new currency from scratch. In occupied Iraq, the introduction of new paper money took almost a year, 20 or so Boeing 747s, the mobilisation of the US military's might, three printing firms and hundreds of trucks. In the absence of such support, Grexit would be the equivalent of announcing a large devaluation more than 18 months in advance: a recipe for liquidating all Greek capital stock and transferring it abroad by any means available … "

Source : Sidney Morning Herald

His latest tweet was in order to recommend this article, an account of the last 5 months of negotiation :

Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 11:04 AM

posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 11:07 AM
The utter depravity of allowing the people to suffer for the acts of the government is immoral.

Who did they punish when the Banksters ruined the world economy in 2007-8?


Why haven’t any of them been called to account?

But yet they will punish THE GREEK PEOPLE for the acts of their government!


Why is not one candidate for the US presidency saying anything about this( and of course the conman Obama will remain quiet) to defend the Greek people?

Only Bernie Sanders might be sympathetic

He’s got my vote the hell with Hillary and those bandit republicans they are all for austerity…

Remember this people, oh Sheep who are so quiet as another group of people suffer at the hands of the globalist evildoers

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

When our time comes remember this

posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 11:14 AM
a reply to: Willtell

Your savings account your pension are soon to be looted so the madness can continue and currently there is a massive practice run by your special forces and others going on to prepare for those that dont like this idea.
edit on 13-7-2015 by khnum because: spelling error

posted on Jul, 13 2015 @ 01:34 PM
a reply to: khnum

Source : Reuters

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