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Training evangelical pastors to be politicians

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posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 03:11 PM
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originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Gryphon66

Britannica - Anti-Masonic Movement

I have clearly stated I am not in favor of a theocracy. In another thread on theocracy I even jested about how a theocracy is usually socialist and how the left should be in favor of it.


Honey, your 'argument' is without substance and incoherent. As such it is distracting from an actual discussion of Theocracy.




posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
Because infiltration is dishonest by its very nature. If someone lies about their lifestyle to get into a position of power in order to influence it that is dishonest.


And just how is this about homosexuals?


What?

How did you get homosexual out of that?



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 03:19 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: beezzer

Oh oh - and, are you allergic to the fact that we who live in Kansas can ALL conceal-carry guns now? We can open carry, too! In my county (the tiniest one) you have to leave your gun in the car if there's a sign on the door of the business that says "no guns allowed".

But you CAN'T buy alcohol before noon on Sundays, though - or at ALL on Christmas, Easter, or Thanksgiving. In some counties, not at all, ever.
Cig taxes are going through the roof. Schools are underfunded. And lots and lots of other problems.

If you really want to investigate what it would be like to have a Dominionist in charge where you live, do some research on the recent debacles of our state's well-being. Brownback. Sam Brownback. Dominionist. Governor. Mess.




I couldn't buy booze in those days and before noon on Sunday's when I lived in Michigan and Maryland either. Other than some mild annoyances, I really haven't seen this "theocracy."



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 03:27 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66


We're talking about people who fundamentally want to change the United States to be run as a Christian (and only their unique brand of extremist evangelical Christianity) government, with God's Law REPLACING human law.

That's not just "a difference of opinion" ...

From the OP:

.


Nice return to the subject....




posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Gryphon66


We're talking about people who fundamentally want to change the United States to be run as a Christian (and only their unique brand of extremist evangelical Christianity) government, with God's Law REPLACING human law.

That's not just "a difference of opinion" ...

From the OP:

.


Nice return to the subject....



The trouble is, in a free and open society you have to tolerate some assholes. What does everyone want to do? Ban religious people for running for office? Ban special interest groups from being politically active and training their members to run for office? That's certainly put a cramp in GLAAD and other like organizations. Be careful what one wishes for--one just very well get it.



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 03:34 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Gryphon66

Britannica - Anti-Masonic Movement

I have clearly stated I am not in favor of a theocracy. In another thread on theocracy I even jested about how a theocracy is usually socialist and how the left should be in favor of it.


Honey, your 'argument' is without substance and incoherent. As such it is distracting from an actual discussion of Theocracy.




"Honey" I hate to break it to you but the subject is not theocracy. The subject is about infiltrators. You should actually take the time to read the post that it was in response too. The thread is about people attempting to infiltrate the government. The issue is that its ok for some but not others in a democratic society


edit on 11-7-2015 by NihilistSanta because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: beezzer

Oh oh - and, are you allergic to the fact that we who live in Kansas can ALL conceal-carry guns now? We can open carry, too! In my county (the tiniest one) you have to leave your gun in the car if there's a sign on the door of the business that says "no guns allowed".

But you CAN'T buy alcohol before noon on Sundays, though - or at ALL on Christmas, Easter, or Thanksgiving. In some counties, not at all, ever.
Cig taxes are going through the roof. Schools are underfunded. And lots and lots of other problems.

If you really want to investigate what it would be like to have a Dominionist in charge where you live, do some research on the recent debacles of our state's well-being. Brownback. Sam Brownback. Dominionist. Governor. Mess.




I couldn't buy booze in those days and before noon on Sunday's when I lived in Michigan and Maryland either. Other than some mild annoyances, I really haven't seen this "theocracy."


How about the 'Rambo Attitude' of 'Kill Them All and Let God Sort them Out" of endless killings of civilians in other countries that just happen to be majority 'non-christian' (though I doubt that really makes much difference in fact as Christian Dominionism is a front for big capital).



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 03:44 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: beezzer

Oh oh - and, are you allergic to the fact that we who live in Kansas can ALL conceal-carry guns now? We can open carry, too! In my county (the tiniest one) you have to leave your gun in the car if there's a sign on the door of the business that says "no guns allowed".

But you CAN'T buy alcohol before noon on Sundays, though - or at ALL on Christmas, Easter, or Thanksgiving. In some counties, not at all, ever.
Cig taxes are going through the roof. Schools are underfunded. And lots and lots of other problems.

If you really want to investigate what it would be like to have a Dominionist in charge where you live, do some research on the recent debacles of our state's well-being. Brownback. Sam Brownback. Dominionist. Governor. Mess.




I couldn't buy booze in those days and before noon on Sunday's when I lived in Michigan and Maryland either. Other than some mild annoyances, I really haven't seen this "theocracy."


How about the 'Rambo Attitude' of 'Kill Them All and Let God Sort them Out" of endless killings of civilians in other countries that just happen to be majority 'non-christian' (though I doubt that really makes much difference in fact as Christian Dominionism is a front for big capital).


I know many of my fellow atheists and Norse pagans with the same "kill 'em all and be done with it" philosophy. Norse paganism has become very popular in the military--due to the warrior ethos it embodies.

Many liberals voted for the Iraq war (before they voted against it) and the current administration has taken drone strike assassinations to the highest level.

Do you imply that Obama and Hillary are "Christian Dominists" who are fronts for "big capital?"

(Is this really what it boils down to for you, yet another anti-capitalist? )
edit on 11-7-2015 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-7-2015 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: xuenchen

It actually makes me worry about much worse than rebuttals.


Are people going to be worried that religion will creep into laws?


Religion crept into the laws a long time ago. A lot of them are still on the books, but gradually...


Religion is, as , and always will be at the heart of every law, and counter law.

It is truly sad people cannot step back and see the biggest picture of all.

Religion is the TOOL, used to completely and totally control EVERYBODY.

I find the people who claim religion does not effect them hilarious, religious overtones, and undertones, and flat out control are present EVERYWHERE, and Christianity being in, or out, it doesn't matter, they control all sides, to and fro.



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 04:11 PM
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originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: GUITARPLAYER

You're confused, perhaps.

It wasn't murder or rape God commanded. Those "murders" were righteous justice being handed down on any and all of Gods enemies. Those people should not have followed other gods. Or they should have listened to priests. Or should not have been gay. Or been the sons of sinners. Or should not have been atheists. Or should not have spoken false prophecies (which may have come directly from the Lord). It wasn't murder when they executed females who weren't virgins on their wedding night. Or when it was punishment for striking parents. Or fornication. Or adultery. Or blasphemy.

No.. none of those things were murder.

Nor was it rape, when God's chosen people went across the land destroying God's enemies and taking their women for wives of their own. Totally was not rape to become the wife of the man who killed your father and brothers.

/sarc

What scares me is I know for a fact there are some Christians who believe all the crazy Old Testament stuff still applies and should be followed strictly. God forbid they ever get into positions of influence. Even if they are unable to influence..


You should be a lot more scared if you actually knew what the Controlling Families believe, they take the Torah, at face value, they just allow Christianity to be the exposed sect to cover the far more ridiculous and sick actions that go on.

And they do not actually BELIEVE it, they KNOW it, big difference, and they have lived it out carefully, to the letter for the ENTIRE TIME.

What scares me ??? Is that people are totally stuck in the religious quagmires, and rock back and forth between Creationist and Evolutionist thinking sets.

The truth will NEVER be uncovered, as long as these suckers can shape and twist every bit of science and philosophy silently from the backgrounds,

The saddest part, is watching the people who claim to be not religious, fall into believing theories are the way out, too me they look just as lost as a caveman getting taught the Bible for the first time.



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: ParasuvO


Christianity being in, or out, it doesn't matter, they control all sides, to and fro.

Interesting perspective. Controlled opposition, eh?



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: flyingfish

We get the government we deserve.

This has been clearly illustrated with the past few presidents and the congress.



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 04:22 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Gryphon66


We're talking about people who fundamentally want to change the United States to be run as a Christian (and only their unique brand of extremist evangelical Christianity) government, with God's Law REPLACING human law.

That's not just "a difference of opinion" ...

From the OP:

.


Nice return to the subject....



The trouble is, in a free and open society you have to tolerate some assholes. What does everyone want to do? Ban religious people for running for office? Ban special interest groups from being politically active and training their members to run for office? That's certainly put a cramp in GLAAD and other like organizations. Be careful what one wishes for--one just very well get it.


I don't know where you got that idea - I've read every post (except from a few) in this thread and no where have I seen any mention or implication that individuals of a religious nature (whatever religious nature) should be excluded from public office or voting.

The consitution clearly states:


The No Religious Test Clause of the United States Constitution is found in Article VI, paragraph 3, and states that:


The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution;

but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.
[a]


en.wikipedia.org...

The point you seem to be missing is subtle, I grant you, but obvious.

What the OP refers to as "dominionism '' and others refer to as the "religious right" are attempting to do just that. In typical overly literal style, not by breaking the words of the Constituional Article but by 'conspiring' to break the 'spirit' though manipulation, misdirection, outright lies and obsfucation.

My addition to the party is that this whole religious gufuffle is a front for big captial interests.


Kruse's new book investigates how the idea of America as a Christian nation was promoted in the 1930s and '40s when industrialists and business lobbies, chafing against the government regulations of the New Deal, recruited and funded conservative clergy to preach faith, freedom and free enterprise. He says this conflation of Christianity and capitalism moved to center stage in the '50s under Eisenhower's watch


www.npr.org...



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 04:34 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

I know many of my fellow atheists and Norse pagans with the same "kill 'em all and be done with it" philosophy. Norse paganism has become very popular in the military--due to the warrior ethos it embodies.

Many liberals voted for the Iraq war (before they voted against it) and the current administration has taken drone strike assassinations to the highest level.

Do you imply that Obama and Hillary are "Christian Dominists" who are fronts for "big capital?"

(Is this really what it boils down to for you, yet another anti-capitalist? )


Well - yoo-hoo - not the military I grew up in and my father served in for 30 years. I always was told the Navy was the more refined service, thoughtful and deliberate.

Regarding President Obama and Former Secretary of State Clinton ( the disrespect of Offices of the Federal government and the implied sexism would not be allowed in any military I know of and would be cause for a serious dressing down) are IMO tools of capital. I don't know to what extent it's by choice or by coercion but they do listen to capital (their families are de facto hostages to capital).

An aside - as you are allegedly a military man - why are generals guarded by Private Security and not service members? Riddle me that one will you.

As to the Anti-capitalism Ad-Hominem SLUR, I don't consider it that. I once believed that "Greed" could be the only possible motivator for well anything - it used to be called 'self-interest' but have come to experience many other more motivating factors in my life and the lives of others. Granted it's necessary for some ********* but not for thoughtful people of good will.


edit on 11-7-2015 by FyreByrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 04:48 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: ParasuvO


Christianity being in, or out, it doesn't matter, they control all sides, to and fro.

Interesting perspective. Controlled opposition, eh?



But, are they Evil? Oh, wait - - - isn't Evil a religious word?

My philosophy: No One really knows anything for sure about anything. As some say: we could be a very advanced, interactive, role playing computer game. Then the question is: who is the Creator.

We have to work with what we've got and how that affects our everyday life.

In my immediate personal everyday life - - - I DO NOT want to be controlled or governed by any God belief.

I will fight for Separation of Church and State in whatever way is available to me.



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 05:02 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

Many liberals voted for the Iraq war (before they voted against it) and the current administration has taken drone strike assassinations to the highest level.

Do you imply that Obama and Hillary are "Christian Dominists" who are fronts for "big capital?"

(Is this really what it boils down to for you, yet another anti-capitalist? )


And we were all lied to repeatedly and deliberately about 'weapons of mass distruction' as I recall.


John Dickinson:
(Mr. Hancock, you're a man of property. One of us. Why don't you join us in our minuet? Why do you persist on dancing with Mr. Adams? Good Lord, sir. You don't even like him.)

John Hancock:
That is true
He annoys me quite a lot
But still, I'd rather trot
To Mr. Adams' new gavotte

John Dickinson:
(But why, sir? For personal glory? For a place in history? Be careful, sir. History will brand Mr. Adams and his followers as traitors.)

John Hancock:
(Traitors, Mr. Dickinson? To what? The British crown? Or the British half-crown? Fortunately, there are not enough men of property in America to dictate policy.)

John Dickinson:
(Well, perhaps not. But don't forget that most men with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor. And that is why they will follow us)


From the "Cool, Cool Considerate Men" a song from the Musical 1776. Full lyrics here:

lyrics.wikia.com...:Cool,_Cool,_Considerate_Men

Link to the song is in my signature. Richard Nixon asked that this number be cut from the original release version of the film as it could "reflect badly on his administration". I wonder why?

The highlighted line is the best rendition (lord how we fu words in the service of obsfucation) of the only 'reason' I can think of for 'working' and 'common' people to worship at the altar of capitalism.

I also find that those who just assume that capitalism is the only way of 'doing business' lack imagination and it takes considerable imagination to envision a society run on a different system (Star Trek showed us one and they didn't touch on that specifc issue just assumed an equalitiarian society).

I find also that many progressives ,as you call, them cannot seetheir hypocracy in this area - particularly those that derive their 'living' from blatantly capitalistic business models - particularly in the decidedly 'libertarian' tech sector.

So - you have been effectively reduced to an ad hominem attack on me personally.

SARCASM AHEAD

Well done!


edit on 11-7-2015 by FyreByrd because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-7-2015 by FyreByrd because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-7-2015 by FyreByrd because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-7-2015 by FyreByrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 05:39 PM
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a reply to: ParasuvO

Whatever bloodlines or beliefs may or may not be controlling the world to this or that extent using this or that method, is ultimately irrelevant to me.

I am a 21st century peasant. What would I be able to do against them?

For the record, I'm not saying science is perfect or that everything scientists say is gospel. However, I think you put too much emphasis on religion having any actual answers of the kind you imply.

I certainly don't have the answers to all the big questions. When I contemplate things, there are more "I don't know" than anything else. I will say though, that personally, I don't say "I don't know" about the validity of religion.

But that's a long story, and of course, my own opinion.


edit on 7-11-2015 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs
Oh, my. Came in here expecting to see satire, only to find you're serious. God help us all(pun intended). From the source: The same skills of a successful politician are the same as those of a successful pastor. The funny(not to mention disturbing) thing is, he's not far from wrong.



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 06:07 PM
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a reply to: Klassified
Let's hope you're wrong.



posted on Jul, 11 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Gryphon66


We're talking about people who fundamentally want to change the United States to be run as a Christian (and only their unique brand of extremist evangelical Christianity) government, with God's Law REPLACING human law.

That's not just "a difference of opinion" ...

From the OP:

.


Nice return to the subject....



The trouble is, in a free and open society you have to tolerate some assholes. What does everyone want to do? Ban religious people for running for office? Ban special interest groups from being politically active and training their members to run for office? That's certainly put a cramp in GLAAD and other like organizations. Be careful what one wishes for--one just very well get it.


I don't know where you got that idea - I've read every post (except from a few) in this thread and no where have I seen any mention or implication that individuals of a religious nature (whatever religious nature) should be excluded from public office or voting.

The consitution clearly states:


The No Religious Test Clause of the United States Constitution is found in Article VI, paragraph 3, and states that:


The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution;

but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.
[a]


en.wikipedia.org...

The point you seem to be missing is subtle, I grant you, but obvious.

What the OP refers to as "dominionism '' and others refer to as the "religious right" are attempting to do just that. In typical overly literal style, not by breaking the words of the Constituional Article but by 'conspiring' to break the 'spirit' though manipulation, misdirection, outright lies and obsfucation.

My addition to the party is that this whole religious gufuffle is a front for big captial interests.


Kruse's new book investigates how the idea of America as a Christian nation was promoted in the 1930s and '40s when industrialists and business lobbies, chafing against the government regulations of the New Deal, recruited and funded conservative clergy to preach faith, freedom and free enterprise. He says this conflation of Christianity and capitalism moved to center stage in the '50s under Eisenhower's watch


www.npr.org...


You seemed to keep placing capitalism up there as almost being as bad in your mind as theocracy and I wondered if you had the same feelings about leftist Christiabs who want to take charge an circumvent the Constitution to fulfill their vision of Christian "social justice" or is it just a "right wing" theocracy you have a problem with.



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