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Confederate battle flag comes down in SC at 10 am today

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posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 11:14 AM
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I am a native Georgian. The high school I attended had The Rebel (a grizzly old Confederate soldier) as its mascot. To this day, there is a huge Stars and Bars painted on the front of the gym. There's a Rebel Flag on my class ring and the front of my Senior Yearbook.

I understand feeling nostalgic about this flag. I understand that to many, it is not a symbol of racism, but merely an element of their lives that has always been there ... or in some more extreme cases, "Southern Pride" ...

But the reality of history is that this flag by and large was brought back in the 1950s by the governments of several Southern states to symbolize opposition to segregation and racial equality. In that same vein, it is used currently and has been used for years by multiple hate groups to signify White Supremacy.

As a symbol, it should not be flying over any House of the People. Period.

Hang it in your houses, your trucks, wear it on your class rings, tattoo it on your butts ... but don't raise a sign of division over the symbols of our local, State or national unity.

My opinion.
edit on 11Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:15:22 -050015p112015766 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: stargatetravels

William Thompson didn't design the flag that was removed from capital grounds. William Miles designed the battle flag.



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I really didn't know anyone here in Georgia that thought it should be flying over govt buildings.
The way I see it, all those state houses just kiss the federal govt butts these days anyway, no matter HOW you think of the flag, it didn't belong there.



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 11:32 AM
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originally posted by: hadriana
a reply to: Gryphon66

I really didn't know anyone here in Georgia that thought it should be flying over govt buildings.
The way I see it, all those state houses just kiss the federal govt butts these days anyway, no matter HOW you think of the flag, it didn't belong there.


I'm not sure that I would describe what the average State Legislature in the old South does these days as kissing Federal butts.

I mean, most of them have made a motion in recent years allowing for or promoting the idea of a second Secession, as insane as that sounds.

Further, you remember what an insane effort we had here in Georgia to get the Stars and Bars off our own State flag (only to replace it with the actual flag of the Confederacy for the most part, LOL) and I'm sure you know that there are still a lot of hard feelings in that regard.



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 11:34 AM
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I am thinking of a couple words popularized at the end of the Civil War during the Reconstruction Era: Carpetbagger and Scalawag. Rather than give the formal definitions, I'll leave it up to the reader to look it up and see if maybe either word applies here in anyone's perspective.

What I will do is give a little history. After the Civil War, a great number of southerners headed west because they had little to return home to in the South. Reconstruction was used to punish the defeated. Their land destroyed, homes ransacked and abandoned and most of the soldiers has little to begin with when they answered the call to war. It was better to start over out West, than in the South because you were not being punished, oppressed, blockaded out of local government. Ever wonder why most westerns (shows and movies like The Virginian, Bonanza, The Good the Bad and The Ugly and The Outlaw Josey Wales) were sympathetic to former Confederate soldiers? Wonder why the Confederate Flag still polls higher out West than in the South today both in the display and favorability? Wonder why so many militia came to the Bundy Ranch for that standoff?

For me the flag represents rebellion from the Federal Government. Not slavery, not racism, not the Klan and most especially not oppression. It is a flag of unified defiance and nothing more. Like the Gadsden Flag, but I think of that as more of an individual thing.

But for those rolling on the bandwagon, here are some more windmills to tilt. en.m.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: Ahabstar

Right, you're telling us what it means to you personally, and I posted what it means to me personally ...

... that's 2 of us.

What about the other 308 million, give or take, Americans? Do they get a say as well?



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 11:55 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

You know, I was actually not in the country when all that was going on, and I totally missed that.
I think that is why I felt so blindsided when all this latest flap started up so fast.

I thought the Southern politicians fell in line awfully quick with the feds on this one.



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 12:14 PM
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I really don't get it

Nothing is going to end racism. Nothing. Not in this country - not in any country - not during our lifetimes

No intelligent, thinking person actually believes that this will end racism

Ending slavery didn't end racism - but it was still the right thing to do. Sometimes - we just have to do the right thing

I keep hearing people say this is meaningless - that it won't change anything...

Well - what will? If nothing will, this still seems like an important first step in the right direction

I watched this morning - was an emotional thing for me. I remember this being talked about since I was a kid

About damn time



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 12:24 PM
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originally posted by: Ahabstar
After the Civil War, a great number of southerners headed west because they had little to return home to in the South. Reconstruction was used to punish the defeated. Their land destroyed, homes ransacked and abandoned and most of the soldiers has little to begin with when they answered the call to war. It was better to start over out West, than in the South because you were not being punished, oppressed, blockaded out of local government.


That's what tends to happen when you are the loser --- of a war --- you basically brought on yourself out of arrogance and greed.

Some say America is prosperous in itself because of its geographical location. It was difficult for foreign invaders that had to transport eveything via ships on month long voyages. Unlike Europe, GB, Asia, etc that were continually in reconstruction from land invaders.

Can't say I have much sympathy for your viewpoint. The "poor me reconstructionist".


edit on 10-7-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 12:25 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I was emotional too and I'm equally dumbfounded by the reactions in this thread. I understand not everyone was going to like this move and of course media and politicians sucked at it for all it's worth... does not change the fact this was a good thing, an important thing that needed to happen and to many, many people was a beautiful thing. Most politicians back in the days of the Civil Rights movement didn't actually feel empathy for black people, didn't give a rats ass about them but did the right thing because it was necessary to move forward, I guess we should be apathetic to that too and call it a hollow victory. The USA chants really justified my emotions, I don't think many here will understand that or even acknowledge it... I bet you get it 100% though.

Hugs to you... this was a fking fantastic day!



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 12:26 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

In the simplest of terms with no extra baggage, the Civil War was about not having the rest of the country dictate terms on a State or Local level. Is the irony lost here? We are talking about how the rest of the country telling a State how to properly decorate their grounds like a giant version of a Home Owners Association. The object being a symbol of saying you don't have the right to tell us what to do.

And in the end, that symbol was removed. I would find it funny were it not for the fact that I know there are some sick and hate filled people out there that co-opted that symbol into one of evil intent. And they are going to be pretty ticked off about the removal. Unfortunately they typically are not the ones to rationally talk it out on an online forum. I fear that the zeal for victory blinded people to the possible outcomes.

Call me a bad guy for that thought it you feel you must. Just know that have dealt with one of those kinds people before and the FBI knows how I handled it. Off the record, I was told good job. On the record, don't ever do anything that stupid again.
edit on 10-7-2015 by Ahabstar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis

No intelligent, thinking person actually believes that this will end racism



No.

But now the government is not supporting it. As it shouldn't.



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
I really don't get it

Nothing is going to end racism. Nothing. Not in this country - not in any country - not during our lifetimes

No intelligent, thinking person actually believes that this will end racism

Ending slavery didn't end racism - but it was still the right thing to do. Sometimes - we just have to do the right thing

I keep hearing people say this is meaningless - that it won't change anything...

Well - what will? If nothing will, this still seems like an important first step in the right direction

I watched this morning - was an emotional thing for me. I remember this being talked about since I was a kid

About damn time


Bravo Spira, my sentiments exactly, as Kali74 says it is dumbfounding that it is seen as anything else



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: Ahabstar

How exactly did "the rest of the country" dictate anything to the South Caroline legislature?

I don't remember any jack-booted thugs overseeing the festivities today, unless you count the SC State Troopers.

The Legislature, the Representatives of the People of South Carolina, made a decision. State's Rights and all that.

Who has called you a "bad guy"? Not me. As far as your mysterious comment about yourself and the FBI ... frankly "huh?"



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 12:44 PM
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a reply to: stargatetravels

Wrong flag, sir, even if you did put a graphic behind his picture and words.



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: stargatetravels

Wrong flag, sir, even if you did put a graphic behind his picture and words.



To be clear, are you claiming that Thompson didn't help design the 2nd national flag of the Confederacy, which, with the only difference that their flag was square, is indeed the "stars and bars" as depicted, and further, are you fine with the sentiments from Thompson posted in the graphic, with which he is DEFINITELY referring to the Stars and Bars flag?



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 12:57 PM
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originally posted by: Ahabstar
I am thinking of a couple words popularized at the end of the Civil War during the Reconstruction Era: Carpetbagger and Scalawag. Rather than give the formal definitions, I'll leave it up to the reader to look it up and see if maybe either word applies here in anyone's perspective.

What I will do is give a little history. After the Civil War, a great number of southerners headed west because they had little to return home to in the South. Reconstruction was used to punish the defeated. Their land destroyed, homes ransacked and abandoned and most of the soldiers has little to begin with when they answered the call to war. It was better to start over out West, than in the South because you were not being punished, oppressed, blockaded out of local government. Ever wonder why most westerns (shows and movies like The Virginian, Bonanza, The Good the Bad and The Ugly and The Outlaw Josey Wales) were sympathetic to former Confederate soldiers? Wonder why the Confederate Flag still polls higher out West than in the South today both in the display and favorability? Wonder why so many militia came to the Bundy Ranch for that standoff?

For me the flag represents rebellion from the Federal Government. Not slavery, not racism, not the Klan and most especially not oppression. It is a flag of unified defiance and nothing more. Like the Gadsden Flag, but I think of that as more of an individual thing.

But for those rolling on the bandwagon, here are some more windmills to tilt. en.m.wikipedia.org...



People can fly any flag they want. Simple as that. They can fly the US flag. They can fly the Confederate flag. They can fly the Nazi Flag.

The reality is, the flag IS ASSOCIATED with the KKK and Slavery, JUST AS the nazi flag (swastika symbol) is associated with the Nazis/Hitler. People can interpret things how they feel like interpreting them, crying that the meaning was different prior (Swastika) or the meaning is different now (Confederate flag).

It was, factually, flown since 1962 LITERALLY AS A PROTEST to the Civil rights movement. That is why it hasn't been removed.


People can fly/represent what they want to represent, but it doesn't change its history and how it will always be looked at from now on.

This won't change with the Swastika nor with the Confederate flag.



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 01:37 PM
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a reply to: Kali74
It's hard not to be cynical sometimes - life is relentless in the amount of crap it sends our way

I was reading through so many comments online - this is important. It won't change the world - but it will change some things. Those changes can lead to other changes

Hugs to you too Kali :-)

And because I'm doing the lame phone thing (from work no less) and cant do real replies, shout out to Zazz and Annie too

I know there's anger and hurt feelings over this thing - I so wish every once in a while we could all see the same thing at the same time. But I gotta say - I felt pretty good about us today



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 01:40 PM
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The chant of USA USA was particularly touching.



posted on Jul, 10 2015 @ 01:46 PM
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Those most upset about what has occured are those that are religious people.

Is it becoming apparent that America is not, nor was it ever intended to be a "Christian" nation.

Its important to hammer this Truth into people's heads because they are headed to a dark place.

This land does not belong to jesus! Its nothing personal just stop stealing and lying...

Hopefully the removal of the flag from state, federal and local Government property is what is needed to make it clear.




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