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Are the "non-elite" morally superior to the "elite"?

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posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 08:06 AM
According to George Carlin, the Elite would be the real Owners of this Country, and they're anything but moral.

edit on 7/9/2015 by awareness10 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 08:14 AM
First off qualify your understanding of the term, "elite". If we're talking of someone with a few million in total assets, the average 1%er, well I can tell you from first hand experience that the average person who makes it to that level is highly conscientious, at the very least.

Morality is actually personal. I know there's many schools of thought here. The thing is, how you go about processing what is best for people depends on your intellectual, and emotional capacities, shaped over time through experiences. There's just no ultimate morality. People form beliefs, values, and some people's systems are more intricate, layered, and situation dependent or not than others.

I can provide much reasoning for a moral position, and be shut down by someone well loved within their community, who thinks my position to be immoral. This doesn't make either of us correct.

I would tend to think the average person who makes it to the 1% is operating at a much higher level of cognitive capacity than the average person, has a better educational background, or knowledge of the world in general, and as such applies their moral reasoning differently than the average individual.

For the most part, they're just people, but differences do exist.

Now, if you're talking about your average politician, well a lot of the above still may apply, but corruption is inevitable when you're dealing directly with power as a career. If that's what you're referring to, well I just think that's a damned complicated thing to be dissecting.

posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 09:37 AM
a reply to: Profusion

Jesus says no one is not one.

Until you finally realize this at your core and surrender to the fact you are truly fked,, the way cannot heal you.

posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 09:44 AM

originally posted by: Profusion

originally posted by: Pinke
a reply to: Profusion

Is the conclusion for you, OP, that there is no difference between 'elite morality' and 'everyperson morality'?

I don't know enough about "elite morality" to judge it. How about you? I mean, I've never seen it first-hand on the level we're discussing.

I have seen it. I have family members who live it if we are counting 1%-ers in that "elite" classification. My folks were poor when I was younger, but my grandparent weren't and I grew up in contact with the wealthy and a lot of politicians.

There are good people in that socio-economic echelon. There are. Most of the good people only get so far though. They drop out of policy making because of the corruption or they are targeted and drummed out.

However, I will say that the system has been influenced more and more by those who got to that place by well... cheating. And here's the thing, a lot of them don't really see it as cheating because they genuinely believe that for them the rules are different. Many are sociopaths. As time has gone on to achieve that level of success and prominence an individual must play dirty. It is a system built by sociopaths to promote sociopaths. As a result many of the elite that I know really are the entitled, duplicitous and sometimes even vicious characters that so many fear that they are; including some members of my own family. Blood relatives that I am not in contact with BTW because they are horrible, useless human beings.

Many are completely self-interested and see the rest of us as tools or commodities. They don't really see us as sentient beings. The contempt and even disgust is often palpable. Many really, really do think that they are so much better than you that your suffering or even your life are not as important as their wealth, position, or even their passing fancy.

It's not all of them, but by God it is enough to scare me silly, and they are the ones calling the shots. I've been in the middle of it and you are way off base. They don't give a crap about you or me or the general public. We don't count. They aren't trying to guide and protect you or keep you in the dark in order to perpetuate the system for a greater good that benefits everyone. It is a common and gullible perspective and they (the "elite") use it to their advantage. Yes, they use your good nature to perpetuate a snow job that harms you. It is the damn truth.
edit on 9-7-2015 by redhorse because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 09:55 AM

originally posted by: ProleUK
We all tell lies, it's the nature of the lie and what is to be gained from the lie that determines morality.

If my kid spent hours making a cake and it tasted awful, im not going to be truthful, I'd just dissuaded them from making another.

Heeeeeeell no! Your mindset is one of the reason the world is wrong.
The ends do not justify the means.

If my kid bakes a cake, I will congratulate him no matter the taste but I will never lie to him and say that the cake was good when it isn't. Failiure is part of life, part of who we are and how we get stronger and better.

posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 09:59 AM

originally posted by: superluminal11
a reply to: Profusion
Jesus says no one is not one.

Until you finally realize this at your core and surrender to the fact you are truly fked,, the way cannot heal you.

RELIGION says that we are not moral to give people an inferiority complex, brainwash them and to control them. Morals are subjective, the churches moral are but their own and are not the omega.
edit on 9-7-2015 by theMediator because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 10:02 AM
a reply to: theMediator

That's because there is no end. It's a copout.

I'd posit that he had a point, but bad example. Society does require we collectively lie for higher levels of organization and cooperation. If we want to be honest, we must accept a bit of anarchy.

posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 10:42 AM
I just read the article, which maybe I should of done before posting...
but, these aren't 10 LIES parents say, maybe 2-3 of them.

It's 10 things people think is true. Someone can't lie for saying something he believes to be true.

Oh and about the wet hair you can't catch influenza from cold alone but I'm almost sure that feeling cold supresses parts of the immune system maybe in order to focus on getting body warm but there's a correlation . I could be wrong, but that's what I believe from experience.

posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 10:51 AM
People are people, and there's good and bad and everything in between in every group, no matter how one classifies them.

I know at least a couple "Millionaire-next-door" types who live in such a way that you would never know just how much money they have... nor just how much money they give away. (I only know because I was in a position to help them make anonymous contributions) I know others that mistake their financial worth for their personal worth, and act accordingly. And I know still others who wield their wealth and power as a weapon against anyone and everyone because it's all about them; i.e., sociopaths and narcissists.

I also know plenty of lower class people who have little or no money to give, but give so much of themselves that they are "rich" in spirit. I know plenty of middle class people who resent the wealthy but look down on the poor.

Money is a tool. It is what we make of it.

posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 10:56 AM

originally posted by: Profusion
I don't know enough about "elite morality" to judge it. How about you? I mean, I've never seen it first-hand on the level we're discussing.


Suppose it depends what morality is. On one level, there is a statistical correlation between crimes committed and income level / education. The more you have, the less likely you are to commit a crime. However, this correlation even carries weight with psychopaths who have high levels of income ... so I suppose I have a different question.

Who's worse, the one who orders something to be done or the one who carries out the order?

What's worse, the poor criminal or the rich person who does nothing?

I don't really know the answer, but I do know that a great many people are powerless to do anything about their situation, and a small fraction of people don't care to do anything. Many of them spend millions on charity, sure, but I'd like to think there are better answers in plain sight. Then again, maybe there is nothing immoral about being passive? Would action even help?

Don't know. My tiny human brain wasn't designed to process all of this.

posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 11:26 AM
a reply to: Profusion

Is democracy morally superior to information suppression and Tyranny?

I never lie to my children. If they are too young, I say your too young to understand, I will explain when you are older. There is never a good reason to lie.

The article didn't really deal with lying, but with ignorance. Those parents aren't lying they are ignorant.

edit on 9-7-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 11:34 AM
Just my own 2cents on the subject............We have to imo understand that there are two different sets of parameters that we as humans can work under. 1 The parameters defining our current physical/flesh life. And 2 The parameters of the spiritual/quantum life. It says in the Bible that there is no condemnation to those who walk after the spirit/quantum level and not after the flesh level. Rom 8:9. is possible to succeed in this current life on either path....but if our focus is to achieve power over our fellow man or to indulge our flesh then we will fall under condemnation. Joseph was second only to Pharaoh in Egypt and was a righteous man. Abraham and Job were both very wealthy individuals and were righteous men. Daniel was presumably second only to Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon and was a "faultless' man. If our focus is to achieve correct understanding of righteousness/right-doing and to surrender to it then we will walk in spiritual/quantum power and "possibly" temporal power. But remember that most men of great spiritual power had little if any temporal power. Such as Jesus, John the Baptist, Elijah, Elisha and many others.

As far as discerning who is on what path it would be determined on an individual basis and would be testified to by their works. " A good tree brings forth good fruit and a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit" Matt 7:17 Now we must also understand that these corrupt trees will be destroyed eventually. "And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which brings not forth good fruit is cut down, and cast into the fire." Luke 3:9 ...

Now I want to propose to you that we can exercise great power over the affairs of the earth by exercising our spiritual/quantum power while being in possession of no significant temporal power.I would confidently say that this fact is the reason why things have not gone totally "south" long before now. I am confident that we can affect great change in our world by exercising our spiritual/quantum power and if we can unite our efforts in this area our power will be multiplied many fold. I would propose a little spiritual/quantum exercise for us. If those of you who have any level of faith in this fact will join with me we could actually bring about tangible changes in our world. I have at times brought about tangible changes within my own personal life simply by believing and asking. I am sure that others on here have had similar experiences.

If we will pray/ask with intent that our own hearts be purged of unrighteousness and then ask that all powers that oppose righteousness be destroyed and rendered powerless we will begin to see a tide of change in our world. This does not release us from employing the temporal/physical power that we do possess to affect change but it extends our power beyond our physical presence to places of great temporal power. " We wrestle not against flesh but against principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places". Just the simple exercise of asking to be filled with righteousness/right-doing and for our quantum/spiritual powers to oppose unrighteousness is all that is needed. We will be successfully battling on the quantum/spiritual level.

I do have a plan to affect change through temporal power as well and I will be sharing that with the members of this site as well soon. The plan that I have been inspired with..... is in my opinion the best way to head us ( our present world )in the right direction and I have taken the initial steps to implement it but I am weak and flawed in the flesh and will need the help of all willing souls to fully implement it. I do not have internet access at my home presently( remote off grid ) but hope to remedy that problem soon and I will be able to engage in this project much more effectively. Until then I wish you all great spiritual/quantum power and peace.

P.S. Please forgive me if I deviated from the OP. I will start my own thread ( first one ) soon.

posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 11:44 AM
Eh, the morality of either group is probably about the same at the end of the day.

I really don't know if we are corrupted by power ----or power is corrupted by us, so to speak.

posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 12:31 PM
a reply to: Maverick1

I really don't know if we are corrupted by power ----or power is corrupted by us, so to speak.

Elegantly put.

The judgement of relative moral standing between the elite and non-elite depends, I think, on who is judging whom, and also how highly the judge rates his own chances of joining the former club.

As that well-known traitor to the proletariat, Morrissey, once sang, 'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy.' The Bonfire of the Vanities was a bestseller among the well-heeled because it played effectively on their fear of the poor.

By the way, the definition of 'elite' tacitly and generally accepted on Above Top Secret is simplistic and unimaginative. There are all kinds of elites, and only a few of them are defined by power and wealth. There are also the elites of fame and respectability, which the rich and the powerful often struggle to join. And then there is the elite of popular adoration, whom even the merely famous or respectable can, for the most part, only dream of emulating.

Royals and aristorcrats form another sort of elite, which is very difficult to join.

And finally, there are the Immortals: those whose fame (and, in a handful of cases, infamy) shall live for ever. All safely dead, of course: Socrates, Alexander, St. Francis of Assisi, Leonardo, Newton, Napoleon, Chairman Mao and all the rest. Who is to say they do not still cast their influence upon us, from beyond the grave? To be sure, no historian would.

How you define 'elite' depends, I think, on which elite you dream of joining.

posted on Sep, 1 2015 @ 08:42 AM
a reply to: Profusion

You have to distinguish between whether you're talking about objectively moral superior or just from the perspective of the non-elite, because the perspective of the elite is that questions like this don't matter so long as they stay the elite. Their indifference is admirable.

posted on Sep, 1 2015 @ 10:10 AM
After watching Spartacus, and recalling the history of Cleopatra, I personally find they can turn on each other just as much as two poor people who could be starving fighting over a loaft of bread.

It really depends on their character and their breaking points under pressure, and how far that character would be from being called...Savage or Animal which is what they believed to removed themselves from if my knowledge of T.V is correct.
edit on 1-9-2015 by Specimen because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 1 2015 @ 10:44 AM
a reply to: Profusion

Some like to think humans are superior. The answer is: "We could be, but we need to evolve more."

Sure, I'd love to live in a world where everything/everyone is fair and considerate.

Fact is -- we are still animals where survival of the fittest wins.

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