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Are the "non-elite" morally superior to the "elite"?

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posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 04:26 AM
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"We", the "non-elite", are morally superior to "them", "the elite."

The above statement seems to sum up the thinking of the vast majority of people in the "truth movement" and others that hang out in places like this forum. Furthermore, these people use that as a rationale for why the "non-elite" would be more fit to be in positions of power than "the elite."

After deep consideration, I think that's all wrong.

Consider the following article:



Top 10: Lies Parents Tell Their Kids
www.askmen.com...


Why do parents lie to their children?

Most of the time, I believe it's to keep the children in line (so children will work harder and do the right things). It often makes the parent's job much easier. In my experience, it is ubiquitous; I cannot recall seeing any parents that didn't lie to their children.

Why do governments lie to their people?

Take unemployment numbers for example. That's a well-known example where governments probably always lie. Why?

We all know that governments routinely (probably constantly) lie about unemployment numbers to keep confidence levels up, to keep people in line (working hard, investing, etc.).

I don't see any difference between the two examples above.

Someone could easily write a book on this topic but I see no need to explain further. It's as clear as can be to me.

edit on 9-7-2015 by Profusion because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 04:31 AM
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a reply to: Profusion




We all know that governments routinely (probably constantly) lie about unemployment numbers to keep confidence levels up, to keep people in line (working hard, investing, etc.).

Actually, no.
It has nothing to do with keeping people working hard, investing, etc. It's to keep getting elected.
edit on 7/9/2015 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 04:45 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

Is the conclusion for you, OP, that there is no difference between 'elite morality' and 'everyperson morality'?



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 04:46 AM
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I chose early on in life that I don't need someone to control/take my freedom away. I obey the laws of the land, in which sometimes they simple don't make good sense, but now I know why, called "control" or monopoly control of not letting competition in its way. Sucks, but that is what selfish greed is all about.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 04:51 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

The elite thrive on power, without it, they'd be like the rest of society with an equal voice.
They lie to keep power, like Phage states, the government lie to stay elected.

We all tell lies, it's the nature of the lie and what is to be gained from the lie that determines morality.

If my kid spent hours making a cake and it tasted awful, im not going to be truthful, I'd just dissuaded them from making another.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 05:02 AM
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originally posted by: Pinke
a reply to: Profusion

Is the conclusion for you, OP, that there is no difference between 'elite morality' and 'everyperson morality'?


I don't know enough about "elite morality" to judge it. How about you? I mean, I've never seen it first-hand on the level we're discussing.

I've read and heard horrendous stories about "elite morality" without one shred of credible evidence, that counts for nothing in my mind.

I've seen plenty of evidence that "the elite" murder by proxy (and do lots of other horrible things by proxy). But, how do they do that?

Who's worse, the one who orders something to be done or the one who carries out the order?


He's the Universal Soldier and he really is to blame,
His orders come from far away no more,
They come from here and there and you and me,
And brothers can't you see,
This is not the way we put the end to war.
www.azlyrics.com...



www.youtube.com...
edit on 9-7-2015 by Profusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 05:09 AM
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a reply to: Profusion Hmm askmen.com (the next source will be buzzfeed)- Harvard Medical Publications says that cracking your knuckles can cause swollen joints, reduced grip strength and possible injury. It does not, however cause arthritis. The 'dont go outside with wet hair or getting wet while out in the snow'...can cause cold like symptoms- runny nose and sore throat due to increased mucus production and shivering to maintain homeostasis-happens to me and no virus involved. Large quantities of gum eaten can cause an intestinal blockage. I have never heard of the 'don't sneeze with your eyes open' and would never say that.

Being a parent is NOT being the government. Parents often tell white lies so children will listen to 'wear your hat when you go outside in the cold'-actually good advice- rather than fight about it.

The government is not supposed to lie to it's citizens as of they were children. It's also illegal, unconstitutional and is often to hide wrong doing, not 'keep up confidence'.

The 'elite' usually have the best interests of the 'elite' in mind and will hurt the 'non-elite' to further their interests.

Not all of the wealthy are evil or immoral. Not all who make less than a million a year are good and moral. However, if these 'elite' you speak of didn't lean to the immoral side, we wouldn't need to have discussion after discussion after discussion about it.

Your viewpoint and thinking is about as simplistic as a listtical on askmen.com. Why do you hang out here?



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 05:13 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

You assume that they have our best interest at heart. Someone who is that caring would never even make it as high up. Everything the 'elite' does is for selfish reasons. Those that do believe in a better world are soon stamped out.
I even remember as far back as the deepest 70s, when I was a child, my parents and other adults would say that all politicians do is lie.
Not to save us from bad things but in order to stay in their lucrative, power jobs.

It would be good if they had a tick-list with things they said they would do and if it isn't implemented within 4 years they have to pay a fine and get the sack and be shamed forever. But to implement that you'd need some honest politicians, with a sense of social justice and an affinity for the people...so you see why 'they' can't ever let that happen, because they'd be the first ones to go.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 05:14 AM
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a reply to: reldra




I have never heard of the 'don't sneeze with your eyes open'


I believe it is impossible to sneeze with your eyes open so saying that to a kid is just dumb .



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 05:34 AM
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originally posted by: reldra
Your viewpoint and thinking is about as simplistic as a listtical on askmen.com. Why do you hang out here?


I think my viewpoint is similar to Jesus':



James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.


I'm not a Christian, by the way. I would say that my point in the original post is similar to that quote though.

I made one simple comparison in the original post but as I wrote there, one could write a book going on with examples on this issue.

Why would I hang out here?

Because I need feedback on my ideas and I like researching here. That's pretty much it.

I think it's very important to consider all possibilities to understand the truth.

I'm fairly certain that there are famous researchers that share the same view as what I have presented in this thread. That would include Jordan Maxwell, Glen Kealey, and Alan Watt. Don't ask me to document any of that, it would be almost impossible to find direct quotes.

But, you would probably want to kick Maxwell, Kealey, Watt, and Jesus off this forum too. So, I'm in good company.

edit on 9-7-2015 by Profusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 05:36 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

That is an interesting question Profusion.

Of course, we know that powerful people get that way, primarily by selling their honour by one means or another, else they would not arrive at the position they attain. We know also that powerful people very often have interests and priorities which have nothing to do with the benefit of those over whom they hold power, but revolve solely upon the retention of power, either for themselves, or for their parties and political allies.

However, it also must be said that those who have no power are not necessarily, on an individual basis, any better internally than those who have a great deal of it.

However, I think it is important to realise, that there are a great many people who have no power what so ever, AND DESIRE NONE! These people ARE morally superior to pretty much every individual who has ever coveted, desired, or attained any significant measure of power. You see, in order to desire the sort of power wielded by Billionaires, Presidents, Prime Ministers, and so on, one has to have already been corrupted somehow. It starts with the ego. One has to have a pretty massive ego in order to believe oneself capable of being a world leader. It does not just take big brass nuts, but a sort of insidious insanity which hides behind warm looking smiles, firm handshakes, and photo ops for the press. There is no way to consider oneself worthy of such a task as running a nation, or controlling vast wealth, without first being a narcissistic, possibly psychopathic individual. No one with an ounce of sense would think themselves worthy of such a task, because no human being is flawless enough to make that belief valid.

So those who have no such illusions about their own worthiness to lead, and are honest about it, those who seek no dominion over their fellow man, those who believe that everyone should have an equal say, and that the people should be the ONLY power in a nation or geopolitical dynamic, automatically occupy a much more morally acceptable and reasonable position on a moral scale, because they are not allowing their hubris to overcome them to the point of narcissism, nor are they lying to themselves and everyone else about their level of perfection. They simply, honestly believe that there is no way to justify the few claiming to represent the many, while lining their own pockets and those of others who occupy the same social strata, at the cost of the rest of society.

Now, that does not mean that EVERY person who is outside of the elite in a given society, is a better person than every person who is within the elite. What it means instead, is that whereas we are none of us perfect, those of us who are outside the elite circles of power which envelop the world, are not nearly as prone to lying about their imperfections as those within the circles of power. Obviously a billionaire philanthropist who operates a business which takes advantage of tax holes in order to make money, is no saint, but nor is a drugstore bandit with a six foot long rap sheet and convictions for murder.

However, when confronted about his tax status, a dodgy billionaire will more often than not pass the buck, dodge the question, answer in an obfuscatory manner, or plead that his actions were legal according to the law, ignoring the vast immorality of a man who has everything, trying to avoid paying the cost of success. More often than not, if you confront a drugstore bandit or armed robber of some sort while they happen to be under incarceration, they will brag about what they do, how good they are at it, how long they have been doing it. Their failings are a matter of pride to them, one which many wear as a badge of honour. For all that this is in and of itself, utterly pants on head stupid, wrong, and unpleasant... At least it is bloody well honest.

I would take an honest criminal over a lying politician or businessman in a heartbeat.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 05:38 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit
Can you define an honest criminal?
"Yes officer, I done robbed that man."
"Yeah man, I raped the hell out of that kid."

edit on 7/9/2015 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 05:47 AM
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a reply to: Phage

I am not kidding when I say, that some of the criminals I have met while out and about in my town, place one in no doubt as to their calibre and intentions. They do so by expressing their allegiance to a particular gang, by doing deals in plain sight, by basically having no guile what so ever.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 05:48 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit
So you trust them.
Makes sense.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 05:51 AM
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a reply to: Phage

I trust them to the extent to which they allow me to. I know their methods, and how they do what they do, where they do it, and sometimes who they do it on behalf of. This means that I can trust them the same way that I can trust a bottle of Hydrochloric acid.

I cannot even trust a politician nearly that far.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 05:54 AM
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a reply to: Phage

I think the notion of a "good honest bank robber" may be singularly English.

We have a rather strange admiration for those who have the guile and intelligence to be a master criminal.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 05:55 AM
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People who want power should never have it, people who don't want power are the ones who should be in power. Unfortunately we have not yet invented a system that gives temporary powers to those who don't want it, or should I say we have forgotten about those solutions. In the current system, the people who want power are the ones in power, and consequently the wrong that could happen, is happening.

There is a simple solution to this : replace the election by sortition, like in ancient Athens. There could be a preselection to preselect the right candidates etc.

Democracy arose from the idea that those who are equal in any respect are equal absolutely. All are alike free, therefore they claim that all are free absolutely... The next is when the democrats, on the grounds that they are all equal, claim equal participation in everything.

It is accepted as democratic when public offices are allocated by lot; and as oligarchic when they are filled by election.
-Aristotle.




posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 06:05 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

People are as people do. It is not what you have, but what you did to get it, what you will do to keep it and what you do with it.

The train of thought developing here is that power is of itself corrupt and morally wrong. I'm not sure about that. Morality is really about one's ethical conduct. I don't think there is a human being alive who is 100% moral all the time. Their name would be Jesus if they did exist.

Who is saying what the morality we should all be following is anyway. By definitions of power they would be pontificating from an advantage of setting the moral code of everybody and that is a mighty power to have and by definitions of power being morally wrong...well you know where I'm going with that.

Hah! Who will dare to say they know absolute right from absolute wrong? They would be declaring themselves God. That is the very paradox of Adam's Curse, eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, doing what is forbidden, the Original Sin in all its vanity.

Good luck with the elite versus non elite angle. Who is elite any way? From who's point of view do we begin defining? There's each in each, "Do I dare eat a peach? Do I dare disturb the universe?".


edit on 9-7-2015 by Revolution9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 08:00 AM
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Hand the average citizen 10 million dollars and they will buy a new house, car, truck, give money to their relatives, go on a shopping spree, ya know just generally have some fun with it, but, they will also help the needy. Give money to folks they know are in trouble and by that, improve their little corner of the world.

Give 10 million to a rich person. They'll invest it to make more.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 08:04 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

when you speak of Elites..... the mental picture I get is of Nazis....
and the lies/white lies was called Propaganda

but I guess Soros or Brzezinski or Kissinger & Gates as 'elites' are more accurately global planners with nothing but good things envisioned for the masses...

they must remain in their Ivory Towers and not concern themselves with mundane things like taxes or budgets...

the riff-raff, serfs and minions are of little concern, except to be disarmed before they get it in their heads to conduct a French Revolution event to overturn the elites, modern aristocracy of oligarchs


edit on th31143644714609052015 by St Udio because: (no reason given)







 
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