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UK to receive "living wage" by 2020 £9 per hour minimum wage.

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posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: idmonster

I agree.
But it is a minefield with big companies only offering weekly hours which are at the exact limits for people to claim tax credits. Taxpayers subsidising low wage employers and lazy bastards who only actually want to work 16 hours per week because they are no better off overall if they do.
The whole lot needs an overhaul in my opinion.




posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: idmonster

Nope I really do not earn enough to pay income tax.

Mrsnonspecific is the breadwinner and I am mre of a hired cleaner and personal chef that sometimes works when able to.

We lead a pretty simple life without flash cars and the like.

Not that I haven't utilised the self employed tax system in the past when it comes to expenses.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: idmonster
a reply to: grainofsand

Yep, im in the yuk.

the op could be billing his customers upto 80k a year and paying himself a minimum wage of 10k. This puts him under the threshold for income tax, and on the limit of NI.

As a company director of his own firm, he could t.hen pay himself a further 35k a year in dividends, paying no more tax, and another 40 while only paying 20%

Avoidance/evasion. you decide


I know a few who carry out complicated courses of action which allow them to avoid thousands in tax.
As long as it is legal I don't give a toss to be honest.
If it is legal then it is avoidance, and I personally avoid as much tax as I can, although I have never set up a Ltd company because I can't be arsed with the administration. I'm happy as a sole trader.

If it illegal then it is evasion. It is up to the government to set the rules, and the people to whine if they don't like the rules.
I see nothing wrong with following the law to the letter and avoiding whatever taxes they can.
Whining about people who follow the law is lame, whining about the legislation is not.
I avoid as much tax as I legally can be arsed to, moral arguments are not relevant in legislation discussions, even when folk whine about Google or Amazon, it is the government who they should be whining about, not those who take advantage of government imposed rules.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 01:30 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

I think it's a bit of a misconception that self employed folks are all rinsing the tax man.

Expenses are just that, the cost of earning money, I was working with a guy a little while ago 2g for the job. £400 or so on materials the rest split between him and what I agreed to do the job for.

On the second day the fuel pump went on his van, £850 on repairs and another £150 or so on a hire van to get the job done plus we were late finishing because of it and lost other work.

He earned no money that week.

This does not happen if your PAYE.

Also no holiday pay or sick leave.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

if they only want to work 16 hrs a week, I have no problem with that, if they are happy, and can live on it.

This is why I think my taxes, or a portion at least, should be used to make up the hourly shortfall.

I grew up in th 80's, which I personally think is when this #storm started. Most of the kids on the estate I grew up on, just wanted to sniff glue, own a soverign ring, a flat, and get regular shags from the local bike. And fortunately/unfortunately the benefits at the time were just about enough to make those goals obtainable.

In order to quell this slow sinking into the mire, various governments since the 80s have handing out more and more money to improve the lifestyle of these people and help them out of the slums that THEY had created. And we...the wokers, the people working stupid hours to pay for our education to improve ourselves, not seeing our kids for weeks 'cos we have to work away from home so our families can live in an area where our children might not get stabbed for their shoes and our wives can go shopping without being mugged. We have payed for it with our taxes.

And its been thrown back in our faces!

The disadvantaged from the 80s and 90s, have become the demanding of the 00s and 10s. It seems to have become their right to have a flat screen TV, a car no older than 5 years, to have me pay for them tomhave children that they can teach the same morals to.

I'm ranting, and I apologise!

At least i n the 80s, I knew I was beeing muggged because a guy would approach me late at night, with a weapon and ask for my wallet. im still being mugged by the same scum, but now, they seem to have got the government to do the dirty work for them.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 01:31 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: idmonster

Nope I really do not earn enough to My apologies.

i know a good accountant if you need one



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 01:43 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
This does not happen if your PAYE.

Also no holiday pay or sick leave.

Haha, of course I know that, I've been self employed a few years now, messed up an estimate a few weeks ago and I ended up working for about £3 an hour when I'd finished.

...and speaking of sick pay, I pulled the odd sick day when I was in local or central government employment during my career history, because they paid me. I've rarely not worked through sickness since being self employed, no money lol.
Although I am lazy and only generally work enough to cover my needs.

I used to laugh when the Civil Service unions used to bleat that the high sickness levels indicated that the roles were so demanding etc.
Did they #, they indicated that we all got full pay for up to six months by blagging a doctor for a cert.
Stress and/or anxiety became the new 'bad back' - you could still play at the beach with your child because it was good for your therapy.
Lazy bastards throughout all sections of society.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

My comments were aimed at the casual reader as opposed to you personally


I do think that some people forget this about the self employed though, you don't work you don't get paid.

Screwing up on a price can and ha destroyed people I know but it's all part and parcel of the gamble.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: idmonster

I agree with pretty much all of it except being happy for my taxes to fund anyone who only wants to work 16 hours per week to have an income they would get working full time.
If someone CAN work full time then I'm happy for my taxes to fund extra support/assistance, but # me no, not paying them 'pocket money' or subsidising them so they can chill by choice!

I don't really give a toss if someone rips anyone else off to have a chilled life, just not me and my taxes, even if it is only 10p it is my 10p.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 01:59 PM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
Why not just give everyone a yearly stipend equal to a living wage? We should quit pretending any work is required for this money and just give it away. It isn't like the jobs we are talking about are skilled or even needed.

ETA: We should give everyone free school, a place to live and a car as well. Stop dancing around the issue and ask for what you really want. At least you could be honest.


Norway does this and they have a rather nice, happy, peaceful society. Unlike most nations they're fiscally responsible too, the populace even votes to cut social benefits at times depending on the national financial projections.

Of course, they also pay very high taxes for such a system but it's not like those taxes are disrupting quality of life, they have one of the highest quality of life ratings in the world.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: grainofsand

My comments were aimed at the casual reader as opposed to you personally


I do think that some people forget this about the self employed though, you don't work you don't get paid.

Screwing up on a price can and ha destroyed people I know but it's all part and parcel of the gamble.


Agreed, no sick pay, paid holiday, guaranteed hours, blah, but that's what makes it an exciting sense of freedom.


I messed up negotiating a price with a guy this week, in a different way, he wanted a day rate instead of job price, just to be sure that corners were not cut. I was happy with that so when he asked me how much, I took into account the million+ (£GBP) house I would be working on and added £50 to my usual rate.
I was cross with my 'business self' when I recognised a genuine look of "Excellent, cheaper than I would have paid" in his eyes and he agreed instantly with a smile.

...can swing all ways being self employed, I love it, but as I said earlier, if work is dry I'll be packing frozen pasties at some crap factory through a job agency within days if need be. I've always been good at pretending to be a good little efficient drone when the choice benefits me.
I'm just acting when I'm a drone when I have to, just like being in youth theatre many years ago lol



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 02:26 PM
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originally posted by: idmonster
a reply to: grainofsand

And this, i believe is where working tax credits is a good thing.

Set the minimum wage slighty higher than anyone on benfits...any benfits could possibly get. (That may well mean lowering or removing some, including breeders benefit) Then take my tax and use at least 80% of it to ensure that those on minimum wage are made up to living wage.

I pay a # load of tax, and the only thing that annoys me about it, is how its speant.


Great idea!



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: 321Go
The rich get richer, and the poor poorer. That is true.


No it's not. The rich may get richer (and the top 1% in the UK pay a third of all UK income tax, so fund half of the NHS), but the poor also get richer. It's a statistician's dream, but show me the evidence that "poor" people have less today than they had ten years ago.




If you read the rest of my post you'll find that I agree with you – it's a fallacy dreamt up by socialists. The poor get poorer relative to the rich, but they do not get poorer relative to historic data.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 02:56 PM
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originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: 321Go
The rich get richer, and the poor poorer. That is true.


No it's not. The rich may get richer (and the top 1% in the UK pay a third of all UK income tax, so fund half of the NHS), but the poor also get richer. It's a statistician's dream, but show me the evidence that "poor" people have less today than they had ten years ago.





How do the top 1% pay for half the NHS though income tax when the NHS should be funded through NI and that is scaled out of proportion with income?

Sorry if I have missed something here but that does not make any sense to me?



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 03:16 PM
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So we're back to playing tit for tat with the minimum wage and the cost of liveing eh?

Well, that certainly sounds familiar. Minimum wage goes up, makes workers feel temporarily better, that is until inflation goes up, and then you're right back where you started.

But it looks good on paper though right?



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 03:20 PM
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a reply to: L.A.B

Shhhhhhh.

Were not supposed to notice until it's too late.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 03:56 PM
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UK to receive "living wage" by 2020 £9 per hour minimum wage.

And there you have it!

State mandated CORPORATE FASCISM.

Pay people 'better' so they can go out, and buy more stuff.

Oh the STATE gets the largest cut of that 'new found' wealth.

After all taxes are progressive.

The more you make. The more you pay in taxes.

Especially EU countries with their VAT.


edit on 9-7-2015 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 04:08 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
UK to receive "living wage" by 2020 £9 per hour minimum wage.

And there you have it!

State mandated CORPORATE FASCISM.

Pay people 'better' so they can go out, and buy more stuff.

Oh the STATE gets the largest cut of that 'new found' wealth.

After all taxes are progressive.

The more you make. The more you pay in taxes.

Especially EU countries with their VAT.



What's the alternative? The poor don't have any meaningful amount of money to tax, and while the middle class has some money you can't run a government on a fraction of middle class wages. If you tax everyone at the same rate you also disproportionately affect the middle class because taking 10% of the wages of someone making $50,000 affects their life and spending habits a whole lot more than taking 10% of the wages of someone making 500 million affects theirs.

A progressive tax rate is the only rate that makes any sense at all.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan




A progressive tax rate is the only rate that makes any sense at all.


Progressive taxes are idiotic. Especially when governments make a killing off other taxes, The have the power to print treasuries. They have the power to print money out of thin air.

There is absolutely NO REASON for income taxes what so ever.

Get rid of income taxes would be one hell of an economic stimulus.

Don't believe in the one size all 'wage' bull crap either.

Different work =s different pay. Dictated by market conditions.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 04:39 PM
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a reply to: neo96

I don't automatically disagree with progressive taxes, so long as they don't take the piss.



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