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A few simple questions

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posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: AbstractDreamz

The numbers do not lie, there is a growing wealth gap between the 1% and everyone else. This is a fact, period, end of story, undeniable. Such a gap CANNOT grow infinitely, if it keeps growing there will be untold suffering the likes of which the world has never seen.

You can say all you want, but as long as that gap is GROWING rather than shrinking, then more is being taken then is being given back by a large margin.

Show me signs that things are actually improving rather than getting worse for the world.

Sorry I'm not going to buy into your dog eat dog world. I prefer my dogs in packs that work together for mutual cooperation and benefit.

I'm also certainly not going to hold those who are responsible for the growing wealth gap up as heroes.

If they were such champions of love for the world, we'd not be getting more and more impoverished while they become more and more rich.

The numbers don't lie the gap IS GROWING END OF STORY




posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:07 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

You said, "There needs to be a balance". According to who? Who decides what is right and wrong? What is the cutoff point in $$ where over that amount, you are forced to give up that money, below that, party up! Oh, and greed and corruption is not the sole playground of the 1% I assure you. It is a human condition. You for instance, are coming off as greedy since you want what someone else has, without making an effort to acquire it. Sound familiar?

Socialism is a failed system, more-so than capitalism IMO.

Case in point.....GREECE today.



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

How can you say you're not asking for their money in the same sentence you say "use their pocketbook?!?" That is EXACTLY what you want. It's literally in the same sentence. Mind = blown.

Who decides whether they're good people or not? Who decides whether they made their money by success or by "throwing the rest of the world into poverty?" Who decides how they're supposed to be philanthropic? Who decides whether they're using enough of their pocketbook (your words, bear in mind) or not?

That is exactly what you want: an outside source to determine whether somebody is being "helpful" enough. And not just enough, but in "the right way." On top of deciding whether the way they made their money is good or not.

Yea, there's members of the "1%" who are corrupt as all hell. But there are members who aren't. And it's not your prerogative to tell them what to do with their money.



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: Krakatoa

I'm a person who shares the same habitat as every other person, who things we all deserve fair consideration. I'm a person who doesn't believe in taking more than I deserve, I'm a person who doesn't think anyone else should either, as we all share this world together.

There's a point where things become no longer reasonable. If you can't tell when something is so far beyond reasonable it might as well be the sun right in front of your face turning you into ash, I don't know what else I can say.



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:13 PM
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I love Stockholm Syndrome.



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:14 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

Then make a choice on how to spend YOUR money and stop giving it to companies run by the much maligned 1%.

That'll be a good bit easier than somehow creating a society where the 99% get to tell the 1% what to do with their money.

All pigs are equal and such.



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:14 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

What I meant by not asking for their money, is that I'm not a cause asking for donations. I'm asking them to take responsibility with that money to help the world themselves.

I'd rather not have it come down to us having to literally fight back and take it by force, but let's be honest when it gets to like 80% of the worlds wealth in their hands, and you all are living in shacks eating road kill stew, you'll not be so high and mighty and will be switching sides quick.



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:14 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: AbstractDreamz

The numbers do not lie, there is a growing wealth gap between the 1% and everyone else. This is a fact, period, end of story, undeniable. Such a gap CANNOT grow infinitely, if it keeps growing there will be untold suffering the likes of which the world has never seen.
You do realize we arent on the gold standard anymore or the barter and trade system. Money can be printed these days and while some will always have more than the rest, it doesn't mean there isn't enough for someone else to become wealthy.

You can say all you want, but as long as that gap is GROWING rather than shrinking, then more is being taken then is being given back by a large margin.

Show me signs that things are actually improving rather than getting worse for the world.
Go look at pictures from around the world in 1920 and then look at them today. Look at China, India, Indonesia, South Africa, hell the Middle East even and tell me it's worse?

Sorry I'm not going to buy into your dog eat dog world. I prefer my dogs in packs that work together for mutual cooperation and benefit.
So basically you are sayng you can;t be succesful without your pack around you? Maybe that's your problem, you can't do it on your own and want others to do it for you.

I'm also certainly not going to hold those who are responsible for the growing wealth gap up as heroes.

If they were such champions of love for the world, we'd not be getting more and more impoverished while they become more and more rich.
Show me proof that we are becoming more and more impoverished. Every home in the ghetto has internet and a flat screen TV, an x-box and more. Poverty may still exist, but it is not the same poverty of even 20 years ago. It is a much more comfortable poverty.

The numbers don't lie the gap IS GROWING END OF STORY
Because you say so? No it's not the end of the story and you are wrong.



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:17 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: AbstractDreamz

So money acquired through corruption, trickery, bribery, economic thuggary, and other underhanded methods are fine with you? Cause I assure you, one does not acquire such wealth honestly.

Not all theft is in your face. When 1% of the world controls 40% of the worlds wealth, that is not done honestly...


Because this ^^^. I don't believe enough people -- even honest and well-intentioned people -- understand just how the game is rigged, and it's only getting worse.


....and even if it was, there comes a point where one has moved from taking what's earned, to creating/causing suffering instead.


You're right, and this general principle is known as the Lockean Proviso, for John Locke, a natural law philosopher and a friend and mentor of the founding fathers.


...whilst individuals have a right to homestead private property from nature by working on it, they can do so only "...at least where there is enough, and as good, left in common for others".


While Locke refers to property in the form of land in this instance, the principle applies to all property in that one can not take more than one's fair share of the bounty of the earth, leaving less than enough for the rest, thus causing lack and hardship.

Unfortunately, many many people don't want us to know this.



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:21 PM
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Leaving this in others hands for now. I need some sleep before work.


(post by AbstractDreamz removed for a manners violation)

posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: AbstractDreamz

Nothing like personal attacks to prove your point. Excellent debating tactics.




posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

So, I think you should donate 60% of your paycheck to help those unfortunate men and women that cannot afford a computer or Internet connection to log into ATS and debate the issues of the day.



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:28 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove

And they're helping society as they see fit. And as they choose to. With THEIR money.

But for some reason you think the solution is for somebody else to tell them where, when, and how to use THEIR money.

Whether you're asking for a donation is utterly immaterial. You want somebody to be able to control another person's wealth, based on parameters you approve of.



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: AbstractDreamz

Nothing like personal attacks to prove your point. Excellent debating tactics.



Honestly, it wasn't meant to be an attack, but the actual shock that someone with these beliefs works.
edit on 8-7-2015 by AbstractDreamz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:30 PM
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originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: AbstractDreamz

Nothing like personal attacks to prove your point. Excellent debating tactics.



Says the one who made the Stockholm Syndrome comment.




posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:32 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

Which was directed at no one but humanity in general. For the most part, we roll over and let our slave masters whip us blind while screaming "Thank you, sir, may I have another?"




posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:39 PM
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a reply to: CagliostroTheGreat

Meh. I don't see how not telling somebody with a two or three comma bank account how they can and can't spend their money as rolling over and "taking a whipping."



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:39 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
It's literally in the same sentence. Mind = blown.



bwuahahahahah.
that was pretty funny. your entire post was good but that read funny to me.

puppylove does seem to want an awful lot....



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

I suppose it is all a matter of one's worldview. Certainly not all Ultra-rich are evil blood sucking cowards, but... They certainly COULD fix a lot of the worlds problems by simply allowing some of their resources, much of which they will not use in their lifetimes, to go toward alleviating a lot of strife. Instead it seems like they do exactly the opposite, which is to say, foment that strife using their enormous sums of money. One has to ask themselves, why, if no one on the planet wants to live with war, hunger and general strife, do the "Elite" allow it to continue? Surely their vast wealth could go a long way in ending the suffering, yet... Crickets. As I said, however, I suppose it all depends on how one views the world.



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