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Just because it's natural doesn't make it right.

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posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 10:54 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So do you accept the murders that Joshua committed in the name of god? Do you accept the genocide that they committed on their path to the promised land? Do you accept the murders of the first born non-believers in egypt as the stories go? Those events were pretty animalistic except they were ordained by god. Or is that the pass, that god said "ok" to them?




posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 10:54 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest


He believed he was fulfilling his faith. That falls under freedom of religion. But obviously cake was more important to the couple than respecting freedom of religion.

He only believes that because some jerk told him that he'd go to hell if he deigned to bake a cake for someone else.

Maybe, but it still falls under freedom of religion.



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 10:58 PM
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I just don't think OP gets it, LAW separates us from animal. Though we are only slightly more evolved. Some "people" still break the law. God does not separate us from animal.

You can believe that non-hetero people are hellbound. That is your right. We have freedom of religion in the U.S.
I believe the freedom OF religion further means freedom FROM religion, if I choose. The government does not have any business forcing a religious belief on me in the form of legislation. What if you went to a business owned by a Muslim and he refused to sell you some candles (I know I'm simplifying things here, just dance with me for a minute) because he knew you were going to use them on the altar in your Christian church? Would you say " hey there, Sanjay, I get it man. My Jesus candles don't fit with your Mohammed vibe"
He is just practicing his faith. He doesn't believe in Walker, Jewish Ranger.
The government did not stop the baker from practicing his faith, nor have any Christian "rights" been stripped from anyone. They didn't say "you have to make the cake and them blow both of them." The government said he couldn't refuse based solely on their sexual orientation. He chose that day to make a statement. He could have said he was too booked up and didn't have time or any number of excuses. He decided he was gonna teach those fairies a lesson and strike a blow the for almighty God-ahhh. He said " I ain't makin no cake for no Broadway show wedding" he wasn't just practicing faith he was expressing prejudice and judgment



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 10:58 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

dude. Honestly. Do you NOT see how you are making things so much worse?

Let them eat cake!! (LOL You probably won't get that one, either)

Do you people NOT SEE, really????, that you are making things WORSE for yourselves?
Okay, I'm out. Gotta go to bed now...


*mutters to self..."rapey otters period.com"...lol...sigh*
Goodnight, all!



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:02 PM
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Tough thread BELIEVERpriest. The example of "its found in nature" has been bandied about for quite awhile ,and I personally never felt that it was a strong position to argue from. Animals lack reason they operate on instinct where as humans are gifted with reason. This is both positive and negative because as we can see both sides can produce "logical" support for their positions.

I have stayed out of this debate lately with friends and family even though that is all they want to talk about it seems. I just don't care anymore honestly. You can argue from emotion, logic, faith etc but its not going to matter because there is a dichotomy where one side argues from faith/emotion while the other side can choose to reject any points coming from that position merely by stating they do not believe in a God(s) etc. For those that do believe they just create rationalizations to support their behavior. How often has it come up in discussion where one side says "show me in the bible blah blah homosexuality etc." When clearly the first commandment was that we "be fruitful and multiply" (GEN 1:28).

I just feel (and I am a believer mind you) that arguing from a scriptural/spiritual angle on this issue is a position that leaves one vulnerable to outright dismissal because the parties involved cant agree on a base to reason from. Science actually works pretty well. Before homosexuals managed to conceal themselves and infiltrated the media ,government and academia, which allowing them to be able to influence public opinion through over representation, it was classified as a mental/behavioral disorder. For some reason this classification was removed even though many similar mental disorders remained.

For instance what is the difference in someone who has a phallic fetish and someone with a foot fetish? Now mind you neither behavior is causing any harm necessarily but one is considered a behavioral issue while homosexuality without a whole lot of evidence was simply deemed "natural" or genetic or what have you. Again with say the transgendered crowd we have similar disorders like body dysmorphic disorders that lead to anorexia or bulimia. These are mental disorders yet if a person sees themselves as another gender or "feels" they are the wrong gender the rest of society has to cater to this distorted body image and reinforce a delusion that if the issue were body weight and not gender would be considered a mental disorder.

When people mention the laughable gay agenda they are ridiculed instantly. This minimizes and dismisses the fact that for years homosexuals have literally infiltrated positions to make policy changes to advance homosexual issues. This isnt to say that there is some pink bloc in operation in unison. Just that we abandoned legitimate inquiry and understanding through science and replaced it with questionable changes in policy and reclassification which has stifled real honest debate on the issue and relegated it to the previous pigeon hole of arguing from a spiritual point.

I could continue and go into issues like transhumanism . Just yesterday I was watching something completely unrelated to homosexuality that was talking about the creation of artificial wombs. They have raised goats and other animals in these artificial wombs. As the piece was closing they mentioned how this tech would be used to help homosexual couples to have children which is really IMO (with nothing backing it) just a cover for creating human grow ops/clone farms/organ harvesting centers etc. This last paragraph is anecdotal and may be a bit of tangent but I mention it to show how these issues can be discussed from a secular view which then forces the pro-homosexual camp to have to reengage because they cant cop out with a lack of belief.



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:06 PM
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a reply to: JesusDontHaveABeard
If the homosexual couple wanted freedom from religion, they could have gone to walmart or publix or Joe's Gay Cake shop.



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:09 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I've never heard the natural occurrence of homosexuality to be used as a defense of it. It is only brought up when Christians say it's unnatural as an argument against it. It's a response, not a defense in and of itself.

More importantly, there's no need to defend it in the first place.



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:09 PM
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a reply to: doclec

Those nations where child sacrificers. It wasnt murder, but justice. The orders came from God via the Ark of the Covenant. No such supernatural communication device exists today, and America is not a theocracy.



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:10 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs
Wow, stepped away for just a little bit and what an explosion of crazy. Thanks for keeping the light bright and occupying BELIEBERpriest's head rent free!

Cant wait for the 'priest' to show his IQ level again….

…baited breath….



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:12 PM
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a reply to: Cuervo

By stating that people are born gay, they are essentially saying that its a natural form. I dont believe people are born gay. Maybe they are born with certain areas of temptation, but freewill still exists.



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:13 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: doclec

Those nations where child sacrificers. It wasnt murder, but justice. The orders came from God via the Ark of the Covenant. No such supernatural communication device exists today, and America is not a theocracy.


So if you hear a voice in your head, that nobody else hears, and it tells you to kill someone because it is God…you will do it?!

I certainly hope you do not procreate and I certainly hope that you do not own any firearms.

...as a matter of fact please let us know what state you live in so that I can never go there!



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:14 PM
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Homosexuality is a CHOICE despite genetic factors that may introduce temptation.


Oh Goddamn!!!
Everybody step back and give me some room.

So even though it's GENETIC by your own admission it's still a choice.
There are some serious flaws in your argument.
First, by saying its genetic you take away choice. I was born with brown hair. That's genetics. I can CHOOSE to color my hair, but it will not make me an actual blonde.
If I as a hetero male feel sexual temptation towards another man, then I am NOT hetero. Bloody period.com
A homosexual ACT is a choice, sure. BEING a homosexual is not. I can choose to NEVER suck a dick. That is a choice. I can't choose to NOT WANT to if I'm homo. I'm hetero, but I'm fat. I LOVE me some chocolate cake. I can choose to not eat, but I still wanna straight face rape that delicious looking muthafukka if I see it. Maybe dicks are delicious, I don't know.

Secondly, who would CHOOSE a life where they have to hide who they are, who they love, who they want to be. Lie to your parents, friends, teachers and everyone you respect, because you know if they knew the REAL you they might not be able to handle it.
You dare call that a CHOICE. No girl wakes one day in her teens and says " today's the day I decide. Hmmmm. Sorry, boys, going with pussy"
That's not at all how it works. I was born hetero. That's it. That's what I am. Some people are homo. That's who they are. Some people are bi. They like both. It's how they're wired. You can't send them to church camp and cure it. I've been to church camp as a kid. Everybody showered together. If I was gay, that would just make me gayer I would think.



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:15 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: JesusDontHaveABeard
If the homosexual couple wanted freedom from religion, they could have gone to walmart or publix or Joe's Gay Cake shop.


You might not see it however you are filled with hate; you will rot in the fake hell you are so afraid of - or - you will eventually die a legacy to narrow-mindedness and a beacon to intergalactic stupidity...



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:17 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So you're saying they have to use a specific business or vendor because of who they are. Like colored or white water fountains



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:19 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Cuervo

By stating that people are born gay, they are essentially saying that its a natural form. I dont believe people are born gay. Maybe they are born with certain areas of temptation, but freewill still exists.


Freewill is theirs to have so shut your trap and let them have the freewill to do what they want with their life! Sheesh, you wonder why people are always against you…it is not because we are evil it is because you are.



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:21 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Abraham almost sacrificed his (on gods instruction). Lot was willing to sacrifice his daughters to the crowd. So at best we can deduce that child sacrifice of some sort maybe was not uncommon back in that time. Justice according to who? It just seems like it all comes down to a "my god is bigger than your god" arguement. Which again is human subjectivety, thus going back to there is no good or bad.

We as a human race have been making this stuff up as we have gone along this whole time.



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:23 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Free will is an illusion amigo.



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:24 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

In the OT, God kills or commands to be killed, pretty much anyone and everyone who didn't follow him or was born into the wrong family. In the New Testament, we have Jesus teaching positive messages (for the most part) about loving your neighbor, forgiveness etc. The big guy upstairs had come a long way since the fire and brimstone genocidal maniac he once was. Seems he evolves with the times (I wonder why...).

There is no reason you can't entertain the idea that it was God's guiding hand that guides the LBGT+ acceptance. After all, they are his children too, are they not? He loves them regardless of their sin? Regardless.. Nowhere in the New Testament, that I am aware of, does it say anything specifically in condemnation of homosexuality etc. Just passages that could be interpreted one way or another.

You know, given the fact that there is such a clear contrast between the bipolar tribal war porn God of the Old Testament, and the more loving, merciful God of the New (who is himself/his son according to some, go figure), it should be easy to extrapolate what God's agenda today is.

Acceptance of LBGT+. Yes, he certainly works in mysterious ways!

After all he changed his tune once, why not again?

Christianity evolves slowly, but it evolves. It has never been constant. Yesterdays "sins" are laughed at by Christians today. Today's "sins" will be laughed at tomorrow by Christians. Yesterday the Bible was used in various places like the South to condone racism towards African Americans. Today it's used to condone bigotry towards LBGT+. But hey, it's all from a place of love..



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:26 PM
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a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Maybe the birth of a son kinda mellowed him out. Or weed smoke made it up to the heavens finally



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 11:27 PM
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a reply to: NihilistSanta

Thanks for the well thought out reply. Its nice to know that someone can enter the debate without getting emotionally defensive over it.

I purposely used nature in this thread to support my argument without drawing from so heavily from the Bible.

The basic message is:

If we are animals, then we must justify total lawlessness, as nature exists.

If we are above animals, then we must practice restraint and morality.

Homosexuality wasnt even the primary focus. But I dont see anyone here arguing for promiscuity or anarchy. It tells me how over sensitized the homosexual lobby is.

I'm not big on the whole homosexual topic either, I personally find the debate quite boring, I just figured it was time I addressed this issue.



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