French munitions theft: Around 200 detonators and grenades stolen from military site

To add a little more meat to the story...

The break in, which is said to have occurred on Sunday evening, saw thieves cut their way through the wire fences into the compound.

They pilfered up to 190 detonators and a stock of plastic explosives as well as around 40 grenades.

Investigators are still trying to determine exactly what is missing and it may yet turn out that other military weapons and devices were stolen.

The local mayor of Miramus, Frederic Vigouroux, was extremely concerned. "This is a site that is highly secure and well guarded. All state services are on tenterhooks," he said.

thelocal.fr

This piece was updated today.

It suggests that the estimate other sources are giving of around 200 items is conservative, and states that "a stock of" plastic explosives was stolen AS WELL AS more than 200 detonators and grenades. What constitutes a "stock of"?

It also says that they are still trying to confirm exactly what was taken from this high security site, suggesting that what has been reported as taken might only be part of the story.

A couple of sources say 180 detonators, while others say 190, all sources seem to agree on 40 grenades though. None of them are specific on the amount of plastic explosives taken.

One source reports that it's "enough to blow up a bank" - but that's clearly idiotic, you could achieve that with a few of the grenades or a small amount of plastic explosives.

All the reports I have seen say the same about the thefts having taken place on Sunday night into Monday morning, that they cut through two fences, and that there is no CCTV monitoring of these areas. I've also read that there is lower security during the night and weekends (which is totally f-ing stupid), and that there was a change of management there recently.

As I said before, it looks like whoever did this had intel of the site, knew when to hit it, and knew where to go. It also looks as though the site was underfunded, and security severely lacking.

The French people should be damn angry at their government right now. While the country is on high alert for attacks, it seems someone forgot to tell their own damn military.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

The French people should be damn angry at their government right now. While the country is on high alert for attacks, it seems someone forgot to tell their own damn military.

Nope, won't happen.

See, the people are enlisted as guards and soldiers.
They too, are into their "freedoms" (here they call the "rights").
Right to not be over worked, right to have their personal come first before work, right to many weeks paid vacation per year and weekends free, paid sick days, etc. The list goes on.

See, here? The people have more power than the government. And they figure, if they are going to insist these guys be pressured more, that opens the door to them being pressured more.

Everyone I mentioned this to with concern yesterday shrugged and had an attitude like "$hit happens". They consider that you can't have freedom and security at the same time. It's a choice for them.

originally posted by: Bluesma
I don't know, That is what they are saying on the radio and tv here in France. That the specific storage huts broken into were next to the highway, half buried round huts, that were mostly hidden by brush, used to be patrolled regularly, but were not at this time (you have to understand the mediteranean mentality to even grasp how that happens... they are guarded "normalement". In other word, when the guards don't have cafe or apperitif to drink, cigarettes to smoke, or one of their many paid vacation days to take. )

I remember a while back, there were a few prisoners who escaped from a prison here, and at the time they escaped, there was ONE employee guarding the prison.

But I would guess, though the french would easily digest this lack of discipline in the case, they'd probably want to groom themselves a bit better for international media.

I think I understand what you mean.

It seems these were accessed from a double fence along a road, so it looks like the media in France is trying to down play this a little.
It's still considered a high security site by international standards, even if the security there is so lacking. I think it's being referred to around the world as a "high security" site because that's what people would expect it to be, rather than how the French military actually handles it.

I agree with your sentiment about complacency and lack of discipline in many European countries too. It certainly seems that this was a major contributing factor in this theft. It looks as though neither those managing the site nor the French government could be bothered to make sure it was actually secure.

The other problem is that while the French people might kind of understand that complacency right now, or even forgive it or dismiss it, they won't if these weapons are used against them.

I can predict that if these munitions are used in France against the French people, there will be protests demanding answers from the government and military, which is probably why the government has already made a big song and dance about demanding an investigation into the security at these sites around the country.

Looks to me as though the government knows it's failed massively here, and it's now going to have all fingers crossed that those weapons are not used against the people in their own country - they will be seen as complicit in this if they are.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

The other problem is that while the French people might kind of understand that complacency right now, or even forgive it or dismiss it, they won't if these weapons are used against them.

I can predict that if these munitions are used in France against the French people, there will be protests demanding answers from the government and military, which is probably why the government has already made a big song and dance about demanding an investigation into the security at these sites around the country.

Looks to me as though the government knows it's failed massively here, and it's now going to have all fingers crossed that those weapons are not used against the people in their own country - they will be seen as complicit in this if they are.

From what I have witnessed so far, there will be more debates about the dangers of Jihadist recruitment in France, but not much else. The finger will be pointed outwards.

On the other hand, the Front National will use it to further their campaign for the presidentials coming up, in which their focus on kicking out immigrants from the country can be supported.

originally posted by: lostbook
Why else would anyone need this stuff except for another terrorist attack? This is something to keep an eye on.

Maybe they needed to clear some stumps from thier farm?

Seriously though, this is pretty frightening news for those in France. Now they have grenades, detonators and, perhaps, plastic explosives.

France has become a front line in the battle of religious extremism.

a reply to: stumason

Just another great example that, what the French need is more efficiency in their security and law enforcement services rather than some freedom-restricting laws that target all the citizens at once ...

Last time they thwarted a terrorist action was two months ago when a would-be church attacker shot himself in the foot ...

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: stumason

Just another great example that, what the French need is more efficiency in their security and law enforcement services rather than some freedom-restricting laws that target all the citizens at once ...

Indeed, I don't understand how demanding that someone not sleep on the job and actually do the job they're being paid to do is "oppressive" in any way.

It really beggars belief that any nation could seriously think that this is acceptable from their armed forces and government. If this really is the case in France, and they really don't give a rats behind about their own security, we need to be treating them like we're on the border with Syria.

originally posted by: Rocker2013


Indeed, I don't understand how demanding that someone not sleep on the job and actually do the job they're being paid to do is "oppressive" in any way.

It really beggars belief that any nation could seriously think that this is acceptable from their armed forces and government. If this really is the case in France, and they really don't give a rats behind about their own security, we need to be treating them like we're on the border with Syria.

I tend to agree.

They just don't have the same values and ethics. They hate the idea of giving the government and military too much power . Culturally, they have a basic view that power corrupts, without exception. So give your government more power, you make it more corrupt.

Work ethics are totally different. Recent controversy has been over a law that would allow stores to open on Sunday, and employees to work on Sunday, but only if they want to- nobody could be forced. That makes the french go nuts. They claim that if that passed, people would be slave to their desire for money, and end up sacrificing their Sunday instead of spending it with family. They wouldn't be quick to say those soldiers should have worked that Sunday.

Their basic idea is that, amongst themselves, who all have the same values and ethics, and a sense of social solidarity and responsibility, their system works. (and they're right on that) The problem lies in immigrants that refuse to integrate the same values and ethics.
Then the debates arise on what to do about that.

It sometimes seems to me that they are, as a people, still sort of traumatized because of the Nazi occupation, and military force carries a negative charge and reminder of the Germans.

There's a social stigma attached to being police or military. We have friends who are police and they keep that fact to themselves whenever possible. Their spouses have to endure creepy remarks and judgements. My husband has friends who are military pilots, and they are not admired here as in the US. In fact, in our town, we're considered as suspicious just for having such friends. It's like we're Nazi sympathizers.

With such devaluation of these forces, you can't expect a lot of dedication and enthousiasm from them while working.

Any religions of 'peace' would be well interested in such a booty...

a reply to: stumason

"Funny"...

Terror here, terror there, behind every bush are sitting around 10 terrorists to kill YOU, yes, YOU, they want to behead you, to blow you up, everywhere, everytime.
And that´s the reason, they tell us, why they have to monitor each single citizen 24/7, over their spyphones, their internet access, their credit cards, by videosurveillance everywhere.
Because of our security...
But if "they" are so worried about our security, why can and do they monitor every single citizen(potential terrorists!) in our freedomloving old, especially the western, the US* influenced europe(i know what i am talking about, i live in germany!), why can´t and don´t they secure spots where they store interesting things for maybe real terrorists, like explosives and detonators???

*If i say the US, i mean the corrupt elites, government, family clans and billionaires that control, rule most of the people of the US! I know that the people in the US are slaves as we are all in those western "freedomstates"!

And doesn´t a government like that of france(like every other "citizen loving" government) profit from such things?
From citizens full of fear from terrorattacks, which beg for more surveillance?
Because evil terrorists can steal explosives and detonators unnoticed, while taxpaying, working citizens are under surveillance 24/7/365?

If the people are so afraid that they never question anything, even not the most obvious things, who really profits then?
When people give away their freedom for alleged security, who profits?
Who´s agenda profits?
The peoples, the citizens agenda, our civil rights, our freedom?

The real terrorists are hiding in plain sight, you see them everyday, on your MSM tv screen, in your MSM newspapers, talking to you as they were worried about your well-being, about your security, your freedom.
Sorrowly the most people have eyes but can´t see, have ears but can´t hear, have brains, but can´t connect the dots, because their brain is to scared to work the right way.

French service persons or person making an extra buck on the black market. Happens all the time in various countries. Nothing to see here move along.

originally posted by: Bluesma

Their basic idea is that, amongst themselves, who all have the same values and ethics, and a sense of social solidarity and responsibility, their system works. (and they're right on that) The problem lies in immigrants that refuse to integrate the same values and ethics.

The other problem is that they are out-breeding the French 7:1. Like the rest of Europe, as the non-breeding natives die off, the vacuum is being filled with muslim immigrants, who are rapidly breeding.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I wouldnt imagine a c-4 detonator would take off any fingers.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Or they just stole them to sell and its years before they are used.

a reply to: sg1642

If this were the case - wouldn't the service folks trying to make cash on the black market not need to cut through the fence, and just use their keys / keycards?

Even if it was French personnel that did this - who is buying this stuff on the black market? Not sure if you were being somewhat sarcastic, but something seems a little more nefarious about this. It isn't some guys pilfering off their optics or a bunch of excess ammo, this is high explosives we're talking about.

originally posted by: SonOfThor
a reply to: sg1642

If this were the case - wouldn't the service folks trying to make cash on the black market not need to cut through the fence, and just use their keys / keycards?

Even if it was French personnel that did this - who is buying this stuff on the black market? Not sure if you were being somewhat sarcastic, but something seems a little more nefarious about this. It isn't some guys pilfering off their optics or a bunch of excess ammo, this is high explosives we're talking about.

Well I'm quite sure I would cut the fence because the finger of blame points in one direction if it isn't deemed to be outside work. Who would buy the stuff? Criminals, organised gangs. There are weapons on the streets that would make your eyes water and they come straight from the armouries and ammo dumps a high percentage of the time. Most dodgy military weapons come from old Eastern European countries but it happens in the UK, France Germany and the US to name but a few.

In the UK they were used by Dale Cregan for instance. He used military hand grenades to kill police while they were doing their job. A lot of AK47s on the British streets came from Iraq when they were smuggled over in the fuel tanks of armoured vehicles. Soldiers don't earn a lot of money for the job they do. If a criminal who is organised and knows the person he is asking won't go to authorities offers a young daft squaddie money for ammunition, you can bet he will get his hands on a nice handful of the stuff with the batch number filed off.

If you have nicked that kind of weaponry, you aren't going to used it in a roadside IED where you might just take out the odd tractor. They would be going somewhere where there is a large concentration of people.

We have friends in France and even the local church has a problem with someone writing "There is no god but Allah" all across two pages of the visitors guestbook. Then he wanted to enter into a dialog with the staff. Had to call the police.

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: Bluesma

Their basic idea is that, amongst themselves, who all have the same values and ethics, and a sense of social solidarity and responsibility, their system works. (and they're right on that) The problem lies in immigrants that refuse to integrate the same values and ethics.

The other problem is that they are out-breeding the French 7:1. Like the rest of Europe, as the non-breeding natives die off, the vacuum is being filled with muslim immigrants, who are rapidly breeding.

Exactly! It's easy to understand why they mock and laugh at our western notions of democracy - we are blind to the very obvious weak spot in that. It means, for a group to take over, they just need to out-breed the former inhabitants!!!

Just a couple years ago, laws opened up the right for people living here without the french nationality to vote in local elections. If you are an immigrant from maghreb, you just have to attain a couple of fertile wives, send for some more cousins to come over, and voila! Your local school facilities are obligated to serve only hallal meals! This is what is happening fast in Marseille.... and it's only the beginning....

a reply to: stratsys-sws

But seriously, getting hold of diesel and fertiliser is easy....

Procurement of AN to make ANFO these days is highly regulated. And this stuff need big surface wavefront detonator.

making a reliable detonator or getting hold of them is far more difficult.

A child can make a reliable detonator...

scary indeed