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Gay marriage and business problem

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posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 10:17 PM
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Lets complain about this one where a Christian was awarded $325,000.



The BOLI Final Order awards $60,000 in damages to Laurel Bowman-Cryer and $75,000 in damages to Rachel Bowman-Cryer for emotional suffering stemming directly from unlawful discrimination. The amounts are damages related to the harm suffered by the Complainants, not fines or civil penalties which are punitive in nature.

The Final Order notes that the non-economic damages are consistent with the agency’s previous orders, such as an earlier ruling against a Bend dentist In the Matter of Andrew W. Engle. In that case, BOLI awarded a Christian employee $325,000 in damages for physical, mental and emotion suffering due to religious discrimination and harassment. Read more at m.snopes.com...




posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 10:35 PM
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a reply to: Annee

We bit different situation. Employer / Employee Harassment.

I am actually shocked you would protest this one, regardless is she was Muslim, Atheist, Wicca, Christian, whatever....


The agency concluded Dr. Andrew W. Engel threatened to fire an assistant if she didn't attend a Scientology-related training session. Eventually she quit and, facing high unemployment in Central Oregon, moved out of state to find a job.

BOLI ruled the woman was harassed because of her religious beliefs while working at AWE Dental Spa, and concluded Engel didn't fulfill her request for secular training.

The Bureau of Labor and Industries ended up siding with Muhleman, claiming that Engel “badgered” her about the conference and ignored her claims about her own personal faith and its conflict with Scientology. According to investigators, the dentist also turned down his employee’s request that she attend a secular conference instead.
edit on 8-7-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 10:51 PM
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originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Annee

We bit different situation. Employer / Employee Harassment.

I am actually shocked you would protest this one, regardless is she was Muslim, Atheist, Christian, whatever....



State law against discrimination.

Pretty simple.



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 10:55 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Employee Harassment and Discrimination are two completely different scenarios. I think your source is only referencing this particular case to some how justify it because the employee "happened" to identify as Christian in this particular case but as stated, irrelevant detail.

www.huffingtonpost.com...
edit on 8-7-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 10:59 PM
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originally posted by: jefwane
I know a couple of business owners who are no longer going to offer insurance to spouses of employees on their next renewal. I also know someone who works in a pretty decent sized provider for small and medium sized business employee insurance, and asked him if he's seen this yet.


This is why we shouldn't be tying health care to holding a job. Before the ACA this practice was even more widespread. Many people were tied to jobs they hated because their employer had control over their health.



posted on Jul, 8 2015 @ 11:22 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

I am constantly amazed by your stunning ability to misread what others write.

I don't care if your club calls it "rent" or "use fee" or "donation" or "finders fee" or "consideration" or "$20 on the dresser."

I don't care what your club does, thinks, believes, etc. I am not intimidated by your church, nor do I wish it harm, nor do I wish to take "revenge."

What in the world makes you think I'm "angry" ... because I think your posts are kinda looney and point that out?

I guess that makes you pretty "angry" too, eh?

For the humpteenth time ... a difference of opinion is not an attack. Your innate PC is showing.

America won. A long-standing inequity has been addressed finally. Only someone who sees our situation as having only two sides, would say that LGBT has won. By the way LGBT is not a noun it's an adjective. I realize that it's intentional on your part but would it kill you to add "people" or "folks" after it? K, thx.

No one is taking your rights away. No one is not letting you live in peace. No one is attacking you. No one wants to take your religion away.

Don't you EVER get tired of playing the victim? How "PC" is that?
edit on 23Wed, 08 Jul 2015 23:25:16 -050015p112015766 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 08:46 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Does it all really come down to,
you can't avoid sending personal insults?

Sending personal attacks and insults are the sign
of a weak mind
and the inability to be civil
if one disagrees with another.

Disagreeing with written words and statements
is what ATS is all about, a give and take of
ideas and encouraging fundamental disagreement
to discover the truth that lies between the
disagreements.

You and I fundamentally disagree on most points,
so in your world
(from your written responses to me
in this thread and others)
appears to make me and
those who disagree with you worthy of
insults and incivility.

I thought you wanted everyone to treat
the LGBT and yourself with civility and to cease insults.

As long as you continue to fling personal insults(ie loony etc) to others
you will not receive respect or civility in return.

Incivility breeds incivility, insults breed more insults,
disrespect breeds more disrespect,
a vicious circle.

If you are looking for disrespect so you can go on a rant
and have some fun,
you are generating disrespect
with personally insulting words directed at others,
I know it works for you, I've seen you do it multiple times
with what appears from the way it is written
great glee
and purpose.



edit on 9Thu, 09 Jul 2015 09:40:04 -0500am70907amk094 by grandmakdw because: addition deletion format



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 09:50 AM
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a reply to: Ceeker63

My wife and I entertained this scenario when she was thinking of getting into the baking business. Basically, we felt that we should treat the business like a business. If a gay or lesbian couple wanted to purchase something, so be it. It's what we did with the income that would matter to us.

Maybe these cake shops could state that a portion of their profits will be donated to specific ministries or causes. Maybe one of those ministries is helping gay or lesbian individuals.

This way these couples wouldn't be refused, but would know up front that part of the money they are paying these folks might be used to fund a ministry or cause that they completely disagree with. These couples can't tell the business owners how they can spend their profits. If they want to boycott, then so be it. People who aren't offended will still do business there.


edit on 9-7-2015 by Freenrgy2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 09:55 AM
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originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: Ceeker63

My wife and I entertained this scenario when she was thinking of getting into the baking business. Basically, we felt that we should treat the business like a business. If a gay or lesbian couple wanted to purchase something, so be it. It's what we did with the income that would matter to us.

Maybe these cake shops could state that a portion of their profits will be donated to specific ministries or causes. Maybe one of those ministries is helping gay or lesbian individuals.

This way these couples wouldn't be refused, but would know up front that part of the money they are paying these folks might be used to fund a ministry or cause that they completely disagree with. These couples can't tell the business owners how they can spend their profits. If they want to boycott, then so be it. People who aren't offended will still do business there.




True and an excellent point!

Businesses can (for now at least) post signs saying that 10%
(or whatever %) of all profits go to support
____ministry or ____ministry.

They can also (for now at least)
post signs with any scripture they choose.

May be an excellent compromise for all, while serving all.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 10:15 AM
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originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: Ceeker63

My wife and I entertained this scenario when she was thinking of getting into the baking business. Basically, we felt that we should treat the business like a business. If a gay or lesbian couple wanted to purchase something, so be it. It's what we did with the income that would matter to us.

Maybe these cake shops could state that a portion of their profits will be donated to specific ministries or causes. Maybe one of those ministries is helping gay or lesbian individuals.

This way these couples wouldn't be refused, but would know up front that part of the money they are paying these folks might be used to fund a ministry or cause that they completely disagree with. These couples can't tell the business owners how they can spend their profits. If they want to boycott, then so be it. People who aren't offended will still do business there.



Do you think all gay people give up their God and everything they were raised with just because they are gay?

Many stay in their religion working to change the ignorance.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: Annee

May I ask what your comment has anything to do with what I wrote.

I was responding to the OP about what to do in his given scenario.

Your response, once again, is slanted towards me being some kind of bigot.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 10:38 AM
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a reply to: Freenrgy2

People do that all the time for their businesses. I don't have any problem with it. Though many gays are also Christian as well.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: Freenrgy2

I've owned a small business. It's hard enough without being obnoxious to customers. And they aren't going to be donating any significant amount to anything. Go for it.

I'm atheist. I've used services of businesses that clearly let you know they are religious. I'm interested in their product, not them. As long as they don't preach to me, I'm good. I doubt any of their donations will be supporting the legal fight of Separation of Church snd State.

LGBT is a small percentage of the population. Yet the majority of the country supports Marriage Equality. Beware of who you might be offending by promoting your discrinatory beliefs.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 11:20 AM
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a reply to: Annee

And just HOW was anything I wrote discriminatory?

Geez, lighten up.

I thought I was giving an example of how the business could include gay and lesbian couples, while still holding onto their beliefs. The business owners have a right to indicate how profits are spent and the customer has a right not to do business with them, if they don't agree. The business is no way is being "preachy" by doing so.

And I'm sure there are plenty of people who identify as gay or lesbian and still want to believe they are Christian. A sin is a sin. I've lied (and still do occasionally), but still call myself a Christan. Being gay is not worse then lying, when it comes to sin.
edit on 9-7-2015 by Freenrgy2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 11:59 AM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

Ah, the victim card.

Insulting another member is against T&C. Please report this behavior. Any mods reading, please refer my posts to whatever tribunal exists to determine whether I'm "being insulting" or just not talking the way grandmakdw would like. Thanks.

See, grandma, I would have asked that you show me what you find insulting, but I personally believe it would shake down to your not liking what I said. You're a believer in PC priviledge, that tells you if you don't like something, particularly regarding Christianity, that it's an attack. Special pleading, special interest group.

Do you really think that by couching your words in passive-aggressive terms, and by using this odd formatting that looks "poetic" that you can do and say anything you like and have it fall within the boundaries of civility?

I don't want the world to "treat the LGBT" (thanks for continuing to misuse that to imply that we aren't really people) in any special way; I merely want us to have the same protections and the same privileges as every other American.

You are the last person on this message board that needs to lecture anyone on insults and incivility.

And that's the last I'm going to bother with your tirade of off-topic, personal comments directed at me.

You found that you have no basis to argue the issues, so now you want to make it personal.

Fair enough, report me. Put up or ...

/shrug.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 12:04 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: grandmakdw

Ah, the victim card.

Insulting another member is against T&C. Please report this behavior. Any mods reading, please refer my posts to whatever tribunal exists to determine whether I'm "being insulting" or just not talking the way grandmakdw would like. Thanks
.....

And that's the last I'm going to bother with your tirade of off-topic, personal comments directed at me.

You found that you have no basis to argue the issues, so now you want to make it personal.

Fair enough, report me. Put up or ...

/shrug.


I believe calling me loony is a personal insult.

Feel free to report me also.

However, I clearly was on topic by saying that insulting people
generates more insults.
Disrespect generates more disrespect.

If one (LGBT) or you want respect
insults and ugly remarks are not the
way to obtain respect.
It is the way to generate ugly remarks
and insults in return.
Nothing is accomplished except increasing
distrust and anger.

And I greatly thank you for saying you will no longer respond to my posts.
(as you implied in your post)
That will make both of us very happy.









edit on 12Thu, 09 Jul 2015 12:06:42 -0500pm70907pmk094 by grandmakdw because: addition

edit on 12Thu, 09 Jul 2015 12:31:07 -0500pm70907pmk094 by grandmakdw because: addition



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 12:14 PM
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In other on topic news ... I've searched the 'net ...

Anyone finding anything new on the Klein's Right Wing Media Tour?

Looks like they peaked out at a couple of days ago.

Anything new that I've missed?



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
In other on topic news ... I've searched the 'net ...

Anyone finding anything new on the Klein's Right Wing Media Tour?

Looks like they peaked out at a couple of days ago.

Anything new that I've missed?


There may or may not be a cease and desist order. It's a bit confusing

Latest info seems to be here: www.oregonlive.com...



“The Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor and Industries hereby orders [Aaron and Melissa Klein] to cease and desist from publishing, circulating, issuing or displaying, or causing to be published … any communication to the effect that any of the accommodations … will be refused, withheld from or denied to, or that any discrimination be made against, any person on account of their sexual orientation,” Avakian wrote.

edit on 9-7-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Thanks!

Even though I understand the cease-and-desist order only covers having their business publish public notice that it intends to break the law and keep on breaking it (which is against Oregon law) ... honestly, I still have an issue with anything that smacks of the government (any government) trying to keep people from their freedoms of speech.

Also, I will admit that the fine seems excessive. But perhaps the judge/administrator was privvy to details of the case not made public.

The Kleins are certainly unapologetic about breaking several laws.



posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Annee

Thanks!

Even though I understand the cease-and-desist order only covers having their business publish public notice that it intends to break the law and keep on breaking it (which is against Oregon law) ... honestly, I still have an issue with anything that smacks of the government (any government) trying to keep people from their freedoms of speech.

Also, I will admit that the fine seems excessive. But perhaps the judge/administrator was privvy to details of the case not made public.

The Kleins are certainly unapologetic about breaking several laws.


Oh definitely they are unapologetic.

The cease and desist is kind of confusing. I've read different viewpoints on various sites.

Was it overturned?

I come from a time where there were less laws and government demand of equality. Where bullying was normal behavior. When "boys were expected to be boys" and girls expected to be girls. In high school 1960/64 girls in gym class were graded more on appearance and clean uniforms then sports. I loved volleyball, but we were forced to double set every shot because it was too agressive behavior otherwise. Seriously.

I support government demanding we treat each other equally. I've seen the other side.



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