Adam & Eve... The Moral Of The Forbidden Fruit.

I hear many times that this is not a Godly proposition...

That it sounds more like the Devil...

That the pursuit of knowledge can't be bad and therefore the moral itself is satanic...


*paraphrasing*




However that is not the moral, nor a valid argument.


The moral is do not pursue goodness, if the main consequence is evil...

So don't pledge to feed the hungry if you're going to commit strong armed robbery to do so.

Or more realistically, do not attempt to liberate a country by blowing it's citizens to smithereens with carcinogenic munitions.



That is all.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Should one pursue evil if it brings good?

Of course you don’t believe that

But check out the story of Khidr and Moses in the Quran

(Surah Al-Kahf, 18: Verses 60-82)




The allegory of the Garden of Eden is about time and place as much as anything


Crossing the street for an infant is unlawful but not for a grown kid

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I'm sorry bro, but none of this makes any sense. What does this have to do with Adam and Eve? It sounds like something political yet you have posted in the religious section. I'm confused.

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

It makes perfect sense...

Adam & Eve were warned that the fruit of knowledge led to the realisation of good & evil...
Not enlightenment.


So, I refer you back to my examples of understanding... Pandora's Box.

Ever notice how good deeds are often used to accomplish evil and evil is used to accomplish good? This is because the knowledge of good and evil is a relativity paradigm, just like a two party political system. God was trying teach Adam divine righteousness, which supersedes the good-evil paradigm.

God is the author or Divine Righteousness. Satan is the author of the Knowledge of Good an Evil.

a reply to: Willtell

I think that brings a whole different philosophical debate to the table...
One I am happy to concede the destination of the thread to.

That refers to the realm of the unseen, yes?

What is willed by Allah, as opposed to just committing evil for a good cause...
Quite different from say, Capital Punishment...

Or a killing of retribution for an act upon yourself or family.


At the expense of my own Judgement, I'd happily shoot or stab a known paedophile regardless of whether it was divinely written, or of the whispers of Satan.

The apple represents the key to divine knowledge; cut at its equator it shows a five pointed star or Pentagram.
Pythagoras, Leonardo da Vinci and many other polymaths knew.
good article:
www.witchvox.com...

Jay Weidner talks about it in his presentation titled "Hyperdimensional Alchemy" in part 1 of 13
www.youtube.com...
In a Hermetic, Alchemical or Gnostic approach, the serpent represented wisdom, whose intentions were to initiate us into life, not to trick or temp us or whatever.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

It makes perfect sense...

Adam & Eve were warned that the fruit of knowledge led to the realisation of good & evil...
Not enlightenment.


So, I refer you back to my examples of understanding... Pandora's Box.

I came to know that (temporal) Knowledge is duality: good/evil, black/white, naked/clothed, life/death, etc. Hence, to know the difference between these things would make one like "god," who knew these distinction, and which Adam and Eve did not before eating. Isn't knowledge of the opposites enlightenment, in essence?

It was a stepping up from the ignorance of animals, more or less, climbing the ladder toward god-identity, and ultimately the godhead/void/"holy spirit," where all is one.

That's how I came to know.

As far as pursuing "good," who said A&E were trying to pursue "good?"

Interesting OP nevertheless.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

You've got it backwards, at least this part,

The moral is do not pursue goodness, if the main consequence is evil...

So don't pledge to feed the hungry if you're going to commit strong armed robbery to do so.

They would be pursuing "evil" by committing the strong arm robbery and the consequence would be "goodness" by feeding the hungry that which you stole.

Could you have robbed the poor by chance to feed the hungry? Or did the hungry deserve to be fed?

If you robbed a bad guy, would you be considered Robinhood, committing good on both ends?

I'm just mouthing off...

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Morality

(from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good or right and those that are bad or wrong.[citation needed] Morality can be a body of standards or principles derived from a code of conduct from a particular philosophy, religion, or culture, or it can derive from a standard that a person believes should be universal.[1] Morality may also be specifically synonymous with "goodness" or "rightness."

Ethics

(also moral philosophy) is the branch of philosophy that involves systematizing, defending, and recommending concepts of right and wrong conduct.[1] The term ethics derives from the Ancient Greek word ἠθικός ethikos, which is derived from the word ἦθος ethos (habit, “custom”). The branch of philosophy axiology comprises the sub-branches of Ethics and aesthetics, each concerned with concepts of value.[2] As a branch of philosophy, ethics investigates the questions “What is the best way for people to live?” and “What actions are right or wrong in particular circumstances?” In practice, ethics seeks to resolve questions of human morality, by defining concepts such as good and evil, right and wrong, virtue and vice, justice and crime. As a field of intellectual enquiry, moral philosophy also is related to the fields of moral psychology, descriptive ethics, and value theory

In Christian theology, consuming the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was the original sin committed by Adam and Eve that subsequently became known as the Fall of man in Genesis 2-3. In Catholicism, Augustine of Hippo taught that the tree should be understood both symbolically and as a real tree - similarly to Jerusalem being both a real city and a figure of Heavenly Jerusalem.[15] Augustine underlined that the fruits of that tree were not evil by themselves, because everything that God created was good (Gen 1:12). It was disobedience of Adam and Eve, who had been told by God not to eat of the tree (Gen 2:17), that was obnoxious and caused disorder in the creation,[16] thus humanity inherited sin and guilt from Adam and Eve's sin.[17] In Western Christian art, the fruit of the tree is commonly depicted as the apple, which originated in central Asia. This depiction may have originated as a Latin pun: by eating the malum (apple), Eve contracted mālum (evil).[18] It is also possible that this depiction originated simply because of the religious painters' artistic licence.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

i'm going out on a limb here, i not usually mingle amongst threads from the religious section discussing bible events simply because i have not read the bible.

having said that, may i suggest to drop the use of the terms good and evil, since they are subjective judgments, and replace them with successful. as in was something i have done successful in reaching the outcome i have desired or not.

if not, there is no need to be bashed with oh, you are bad because you know nothing, or something similar. one just reorientates and tries again until one is successful, or one gives up.


parents might notice that punishment of a child for its mistakes and therefore having been bad often breaks the child and does not achieve what the parents actually wished for. does a child understand obedience?

should one pursue evil if it brings good? what do you want to achieve and what will be a successful tactic to get you there. when you are old enough and done your childhood experiments, you can estimate an outcome and if not, trial an error will get you there.

by the way, did adam and eve know about the actual consequences for eating the apple? did God explain to them why it was forbidden and what punishment would happen, that it will cause the fall of man and what that means, or did he just say, don't do it i'm warning you!

also, did adam and eve get a chance to try again, to be forgiven? were they allowed to go to God and say i'm sorry we did not quite know what we were doing, we needed to know, now we understand better, can we try again?

maybe God is austere and came across a bit as a bully. maybe God was itself a bit young and silly and would do things a bit differently also?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

a reply to: sophie87

On our faces: A Map of the World [Link]...

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
The forbidden fruit is not called "knowledge", but "knowledge of good and evil".
I think this is a Hebraism for "knowing which is which, knowing the boundary line between them".
In other words, they were deciding for themselves what was the right or wrong thing to do, instead of accepting God's judgement.
The act of picking the fruit s a very apt symbol of that. God said "It is bad, you must not eat." They said "It is good, we will eat it". Making their own choice. The medium is the message.
I've done a thread on this; "The tree of what knowledge?"

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

It makes perfect sense...

Adam & Eve were warned that the fruit of knowledge led to the realisation of good & evil...
Not enlightenment.

So, I refer you back to my examples of understanding... Pandora's Box.

The acquiring of any knowledge is enlightenment. When you learn something new, you realize the amount of things you can do with that knowledge.

Not knowing the difference between good and evil makes you a slave, therefore you only follows whatever another one says to you. Never taking responsibility of your acts. Be free.

Pandora's box: An artifact given to Pandora that contained all the evils of the world.
Hope was inside the box. So, hope is evil?

The knowledge in and of itself was not evil, but the act of disobedience was. If Adam and Eve were wise enough in their own innocent actions to discern what they should and should not do, then how on earth were they to handle having the full weight of responsibility of true good and evil?

Knowledge and wisdom are two different things.

To illustrate my point, I'll refer you any number of modern stories where science and the knowledge it brings are simply used without thought to the potential consequence or cost (i.e. used without wisdom). Jurassic Park and its numerous sequels are simply one fresh example.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

i'm sorry bro, im just thinking about what is the truth behind the forbidden fruit. and why God make it ?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

If there were only 2 people in the Garden of Eve were did the Tim Tam biscuits come from? There was no fruit, it was a Tim Tam

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Light and Darkness, life and death, right and left, are brothers of one another. They are inseparable. Because of this neither are the good good, nor evil evil, nor is life life, nor death death. For this reason each one will dissolve into its earliest origin. But those who are exalted above the world are indissoluble, eternal.

and

There are two trees growing in Paradise. The one bears animals, the other bears men. Adam ate from the tree which bore animals. He became an animal and he brought forth animals. For this reason the children of Adam worship animals. The tree [...] fruit is [...] increased. [...] ate the [...] fruit of the [...] bears men, [...] man. [...] God created man. [...] men create God. That is the way it is in the world - men make gods and worship their creation. It would be fitting for the gods to worship men!

gnosis.org...

Some interesting reading I just finished a couple days ago.

didn't you all hear the latest News?

the Garden-zoo of Eden getting bigtime "Make-over"

due to "popular Demand"