Choosing Faith over Failure - My Path to Enlightenment

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon

The rules are still the same; salvation by faith and maturity by righteous works.

Step 1 Faith

Step 2 Works

Maturity - the point where you can ignore the sinful nature because you do not wish to cause suffering.

Maturity = Nirvana

You have just stated the same thing I did. The only difference is you teach fallen, still tied to your sinful nature, and I say Christ has risen above the sinful nature.

If Christ is in you, he is calling you to rise above the sinful nature. Because the risen are not like the fallen. And we are to become Like-Christ and possibly do even greater things then he did.

If we can do greater, than surely we can overcome sin, because perfection lives in us.

The pursuit of perfection, or to remain fallen?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest


Mixing revelation with the gospels... geez

Lets put it in context then...

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Faith alone makes "his sayings" null and void... that was his point

Most of what he taught was about how we should treat others, and believing in him requires that... or it is nothing

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Who are the one's who work inequity?

Those who are bound to thier sinful nature.

Those bound to the Spirit of Love and Reason do not work inequity.

a reply to: Akragon

I dont have to mix Revelation with the gospels, Jesus does it for us in Matt 24 & 25.

"Many will say to me IN THAT DAY?"

In what day?..."When the Son of Man comes in His glory" Matt 25:31

The foundation of a wise man is faith in Christ. Works are the bricks that make up the walls. You can't build your walls on sand...that is works without faith.

The Tribulation will be a time of iniquity and lawlessness (Matt 24:12). Those who abuse the servants of Christ are the workers of iniquity.

Stop side stepping the context. Its eschatological.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Based on my experience I'd rather say:

Step 1. Take Action

Step 2. Faith without works is dead The path to perfection is the pursuit of spiritual perfection. Make all your deeds good deeds.

It's not entirely true. You would need to do something bad from time to time.
So, never take it in your heart that you should always be good.

Step 3. Eliminate Suffering

You're not suffering if you're not into suffering.

Step 4. Judge only yourself

Never judge yourself, trust me. Just always love yourself.

The rest of you steps are gibberish.

Experience is what molds a person and what a person is.

Keep in mind that people are never the same.

If you're a loser reading this, then this philosophy leads you to death.

So don't listen to him. Listen to me.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon

I dont have to mix Revelation with the gospels, Jesus does it for us in Matt 24 & 25.
"Many will say to me IN THAT DAY?"
In what day?..."When the Son of Man comes in His glory" Matt 25:31
The foundation of a wise man is faith in Christ. Works are the bricks that make up the walls. You can't build your walls on sand...that is works without faith.
The Tribulation will be a time of iniquity and lawlessness (Matt 24:12). Those who abuse the servants of Christ are the workers of iniquity.
Stop side stepping the context. Its eschatological.

Except that passage I put "in context" for you was from Matthew 7...

Salvation is deliverance. The name Yahoshua means Yahweh (the creator God) IS salvation/ deliverance.That deliverance is from Hades(the realm of death and imperception) that Yahoshua will deliver ALL of creation from (including ALL of mankind).

There is none that are delivered by ANY method especially religion of belief or works.Those are delusions of the religious mind (satan) the adversary.There is no standard of “good works” .To judge works is to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and judge yourself “righteous” because of what you believe is good works or because you believe in doctrines of religion (like being saved by faith which the scriptures don’t say..it is says saved by “grace” through faith(trust) which neither is works of your own but are of the creator God.

The fact is the creator God is delivering ALL of creation 100% by the creator God’s work ALONE.Man can do NOTHING to deliver themselves from Hades.That is the most absurd belief man has.Man can do “nothing” to save or perfect themselves only the self righteous believe that.The fact is the creator God “will” deliver them to life.That is the Good News not any religious belief or works.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Step 3. Eliminate Suffering

Phillipians 1

For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake

Romans 8

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

1Peter4

12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy.

16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.

Acts 5

So they went on their way from the presence of the Council, rejoicing that they had been considered worthy to suffer shame for His name.

a reply to: Akragon

Right, except when Jesus said "in that day", He meant the return of the Son of Man. He expanded on Matt 7 in Matt 25.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Isurrender73

1) Believe that Jesus paid for our sins. He bought us from carnal slavery. Until you believe, there is no potential for Spiritual enlightenment.

2) Study the Bible under the direction of a learned Pastor and confess your sins when needed to God the Father (1 John 1:9). You can't grow unless you can rebound from spells of carnality.

3) Apply the principles of the Bible to your life as you are tested until you either die or are resurrected. It isn't until death that you are released from the influence of the flesh (sin nature).

There is no working your way to heaven. Salvation is a gift, but its your spiritual maturity that requires work. Anything else, and you'll just be chasing your tail.

The OP never once mentioned Jesus, the Bible or salvation. While you're telling us that you MUST believe something specific, the OP is advising us to "Choose Faith" in God.

While you're telling us we MUST read the Bible, the OP is advising us to "Do Good Things".

You're telling us that we MUST study under an ordained pastor, the OP is advising us to "Listen to the Voice of Love and Reason".

While you're telling us that we MUST confess our sins, so that we can grow and rebound from the "spells of carnality", the OP is advising to be the "Judge of Yourself" and to "Divine Boundaries".

While you're telling us that good work's are not the way to heaven, the OP is advising to refuse to accept defeat; "The road home, Faith over Failure ".

Thanks for advice OP! Good job at not going biblical and religiously freaky on us! Good luck in your journey through life!

a reply to: windword
The OP allegedly holds the Bible as a sacred text. In light of that, real spiritual enlightenment can not be attained apart from faith in Christ. My post is relevant to the subject.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

And yet, the OP was able to put their point across without having to force a believe in "Jesus", "Christ", the Bible or salvation from damnation into their message. You're the one who says that spiritual enlighten requires the belief in a certain biblical character. It's not in the OP.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon

Right, except when Jesus said "in that day", He meant the return of the Son of Man. He expanded on Matt 7 in Matt 25.

You completely missed the point...

He says specifically, Those that hear my sayings and do not do them are like a foolish man who built his house on sand"

the previous two chapters are all about how we treat other people.... Those that believe in faith without works of the spirit are exactly those people... which he reiterates in Mat 25...

Faith Plus work is what Jesus taught... Not Faith alone as Paul teaches

Jesus does not know those who do no work for others

a reply to: Akragon

No sir! You are again missing the point. The quoted verses in Matt 7 and 25 are about judging the nations (and therefore people) who are present at His glorious return. Those who are already dead will not be judged until another 1,000 years at the White Throne Judgement. But the Tribulation will be a time of no grey area. You will either believe and be hunted or you will not believe and you will persecute. Its that simple.

Works cannot be a substitute for faith. Faith is the foundation and works are the building blocks. A house of works built with no foundation of faith is useless.

Maybe if you had more respect for context and syntax, you wouldn't constantly distort scripture to suite your personal opinion.

Its ok, you don't have to believe if you don't want to, but show respect for the literature if your going to examine it.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

No sir! You are again missing the point. The quoted verses in Matt 7 and 25 are about judging the nations (and therefore people) who are present at His glorious return.

...

Maybe you should actually read Matthew 7

You have no idea what you're talking about brother

Those who are already dead will not be judged until another 1,000 years at the White Throne Judgement. But the Tribulation will be a time of no grey area. You will either believe and be hunted or you will not believe and you will persecute. Its that simple.

Matthew 7 has nothing to do with any of that...

Works cannot be a substitute for faith. Faith is the foundation and works are the building blocks. A house of works built with no foundation of faith is useless.

WHO said works are a substitute?

I said works + Faith... please read before replying

IF works are the bricks of said house as you continuously say... what kind of "house" is built with no bricks?

Maybe if you had more respect for context and syntax, you wouldn't constantly distort scripture to suite your personal opinion.

Again, maybe you should read the chapter before replying... clearly you don't know the passage and its context...

Its ok, you don't have to believe if you don't want to, but show respect for the literature if your going to examine it

What are you even talking about?

All you're doing is peddling what you've been taught or heard in some sermon.... perhaps from some Christian website I don't know...

Where did I "disrespect" anything in this thread... all I did was point out that the Christian theology of "faith alone" was nothing Jesus taught... Being Christian I wouldn't expect you to understand that because almost all Christians mash the entire bible into one overall theory... and unfortunately it just doesn't work that way

a reply to: Akragon

Look, I'm not arguing faith alone either, but you have to categorize it accurately. Faith is for eternal life. Works furnish the eternal body with precious stones and gold. A house with no brick is a tent, and many Christians will enter the kingdom of God with the bare minimum. But if you stand on your works as you basis for eternal life, you will fall at the last Judgement. You must believe that Jesus paid the debt of you sins before your works can be of the Spirit.

You should re-read Matt 7:22. It is a preview of Matt 25:31....In that day.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Works furnish the eternal body with precious stones and gold.

Where do you get this stuff... seriously?

A house with no brick is a tent

no its not... a tent is not a house... a House with out its building materials is nothing, just like faith without works... its dead

c'mon man

Kinda ironic Paul was a tent maker... lines up with his writing perfectly lol

and many Christians will enter the kingdom of God with the bare minimum

Not according to the gospels... this is nothing more then church theology. Basically as long as you're going to church you get a free ticket... and again that's simply not the way it works according to the gospels

But if you stand on your works as you basis for eternal life, you will fall at the last Judgement. You must believe that Jesus paid the debt of you sins before your works can be of the Spirit.

Which is nothing Jesus taught again... there was no sin debt in his teaching... Nothing he "paid for" in advance...

This is Paul's theology...

You should re-read Matt 7:22. It is a preview of Matt 25:31....In that day.

I don't need to re-read it, I practically know the gospels by heart

and yet again you're missing the point... Yes he reiterates this passage in Mat 25, the point of it was that it needed to be followed not just shrugged off... Follow his words or pay the price basically...

and he taught Love for your neighbour... One can not show love to their neighbour with words alone... it requires action

a reply to: Akragon
Well, I guess you would know then, after all, you seem to be the expert on the gospels here. Never mind all the blatant references to the OT prophecies, or the epistles written by the Disciples that Jesus Himself appointed for the communication of His word. No, you practically know the gospels by heart, so there is no possible way you could be missing the bigger picture. I get bible deniers, atheists, agnostics, and so on, but I just don't get you.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

What's there to get... I lay it all out for you



Jesus said nothing of a "free gift" from God... nothing about original sin, or Adam for that matter...

He didn't teach faith alone... He didn't tell his people to steer clear of sinners, in fact he hung out with them on the regular...

He taught love and respect for others and action, not just words... meaning one needs more then just faith to follow him...

Faith without works is dead... Thus Faith alone is also dead

Originally I replied to you saying "theres no working your way into heaven"... well he didn't say that either

He said faith and works are required... not verbatim of course, but that was the message

a reply to: Klassified

All of these verses pertain to suffering at the hands of others for sticking up for your faith in Christ.

Christians were heavily persecuted for hundreds of years after Christ.

We can eliminate the suffering we cause, but we may still suffer at the hands of others. Our brothers have freewill and sometimes they use it to make us suffer.

I am talking about eliminating the things from your life that you do that cause your suffering. If you are addicted to alcohol, should you suffer for Christ, or end your suffering by stop drinking?