Greek Referendum result, First exit polls

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
Updated vote count

61% NO, 39% YES

Yes votes are relatively more in Athens, while in other cities No is prevailing...

That would make sense, seeing that a lot of the people outside of Athens are the ones that are affected more by unemployment and the likes.

Markets will be interesting to watch when they'll open tomorrow...

We have an official projection now with the previous numbers locked

61% No, 39% Yes

Hard times ahead, but it's better to face it now, than being a victim for ever.

You see a referendum result becomes an instant law above all other law setters...
If Yes prevailed, the creditors would have the ok by the people to pass whatever laws they wished in Greece, and any future Governments wouldn't be able to change that.
Greece would be literally in the hands of the banks and IMF.
Just like concurring the country without an actual war (but an economic one)

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

I am only half Greek, but although I don't have Greek nationality, I served voluntarily in the Greek Army, and I spend nearly every summer there.
I have many many Greek friends and relatives and I know first hand the situation.here.

I do worry about Greece's future, but I can't help but being proud of their resistance tonight.

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
Markets will be interesting to watch when they'll open tomorrow...

We have an official projection now with the previous numbers locked

61% No, 39% Yes

I wonder how many Euro leaders just crapped themselves a little.....This is far bigger than just a bank failing. Times are going to get hard in Greece I believe as they are made an example of.



Think about it......If Greeks succeed after this and pull themselves together other countries will try and leave like Spain and Italy. PTB will not let this happen and they have the influence and money to pull it off. Greece will be the example of what happens when you go against them. And we could see the rise of nationalism in Greece again. They are ripe for the picking.

Here is the oficial link from singular logic (a jewish american company that gathers the votes in electronic form/map)

]]link

its still near the 82% of the counting. another 18% of the total votes needs to be added. When u refresh the page or it does it automatically, the % changes accordingly.

in the link above, you can see some statistics (the 83% at this momment is the total counting of votes) and NAI is YES, OXI is NO.

All in all is 62% NO and 38% YES.

originally posted by: intrptr
The people have spoken. Since when does that matter? When it comes to debt, the banks got you by the balls.

They don't care who loses as long as its not them.

If they let the Greeks skate all that debt doesn't just disappear. Someone has to pay.

Nope, nodody pays.

There's some possible scenarios of what will happen.

One is debt relief, not all the debt, but a sizeable portion of it will be wiped away. They can do that, and they've done it before, and they'll do it again. Even the IMF is saying that this is what has been needed along with the fact austerity isn't working.
Debt relief will be the compromise by the EU/IMF, while the Greek government will compromise on what the EU was asking them to do.

Another option is that like the above, but also that the ridiculous and unrealistic time frame and deadlines will be dropped, and Greece will be given a grace period of 15-20 years or there abouts, where it wont be obligated to repay debt or interest. In that time Greece will be obligated though to carry out intensive reforms and economic restructuring, and with economic aide stimulate the economy, industries/create new industries, and jobs growth. And then resume repayments.


There HAS to be a solution reached, where Greece remains within the EU/Euro, because if it has to leave the EU, it will likely then leave NATO as well. And that's not an option for American foreign policy. People need to realize the Americans have a huge stake in this crisis as well and have been pulling strings behind the scenes.

a reply to: mortex

There HAS to be a solution reached, where Greece remains within the EU/Euro, because if it has to leave the EU, it will likely then leave NATO as well. And that's not an option for American foreign policy. People need to realize the Americans have a huge stake in this crisis as well and have been pulling strings behind the scenes.

The 800 lb. gorilla in the room. Not only are the Americans behind the scenes now they are responsible along with Germany and France for the gynormous debt in the first place.

Endless debt and endless war.

Don't take my word for it…

The bankers won't cave here. Like other stands made against the world order like the Arab Spring in Egypt for instance, we will be titivated with media smoke and mirrors for a while and then the story will drip off the page. The Greeks will celebrate their "victory" with the non binding referendum then go home exhausted, having changed nothing.

originally posted by: intrptr
Not only are the Americans behind the scenes now they are responsible along with Germany and France for the gynormous debt in the first place.

Actually, the Greeks are responsible for their debt, having lived beyond their means for many years. Countries are no different that companies or people. If you borrow too much then the good times won't last. That's Greece.

Stupid to blame anyone else, although I'm sure doing so helps reinforce the worldview that somehow this someone else's fault.

a reply to: paraphi

Actually, the Greeks are responsible for their debt…

All of them?

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: intrptr
Not only are the Americans behind the scenes now they are responsible along with Germany and France for the gynormous debt in the first place.

Actually, the Greeks are responsible for their debt, having lived beyond their means for many years. Countries are no different that companies or people. If you borrow too much then the good times won't last. That's Greece.

Stupid to blame anyone else, although I'm sure doing so helps reinforce the worldview that somehow this someone else's fault.

Actually the Greeks aren't responsible.
Greek governments are.
The Greek governments of the past 40 years lived beyond their means.
But funnily enough, nobody seemed to care back then, it's only a term coined now for media manipulation of the masses...ala you.


Yes, governments borrowed, and borrowed..and borrowed. The problem isn't that they borrowed..the problem is that they did nothing to create economic growth and jobs and industries. What industries Greece does have are too few and too small in the wider context to make a difference to the countries economic woes.

Oddly enough though, between 1950 and and 1973..(1967-74 was the Junta years), the Greek economy was the second fastest growing economy in the world, second only to Japan. It was growing annually at an average of 7%. There were jobs, plenty of jobs, back then. Then the junta came to power and fell, and then socialism and pseudo-communism took over.
The Greek debt at the time was around the 34-35% of GDP mark. Within a decade, the socialist pseudo commie scum tripled it.

The majority of money that was borrowed, never benefited or went to the Greek people in any way.
Yeh, there were some roads, highways, subways built, a few stadiums for the Olympics..and...?
And that's it. That money was not invested in the economy, it was not invested in infrastructure, or new industries or existing industries to create economic growth and jobs.
Nobody knows how many millions, if not billions, have been pocketed by the corrupt politicians in their secret bank accounts in Switzerland and other tax havens around the world.
These people are criminals and should be in jail. But whose going to put them in jail, them selves, who are still running the country?


The Greek governments are responsible for the initial debt at the start of the crisis.
The rest of the debt that's been created since, the responsibility for that belongs to Greece's creditors..the ECB, the EU, the IMF. Of course Greek politicians are also to blame for accepting it.


Doesn't anyone find it funny how the German and French financial systems were saved by their own tax payers via the money basically laundered through the Greek government, but the Greek government still owes that debt?

If you ever wanted an example of how crooked, corrupt, and manipulative the western worlds financial system is, then examine what's happened with Greece and the German/French banks in particular, and the debt crisis that's ongoing and made worse by the banking elites.

Nobody is trying to make excuses for Greek governments. They should all be lined up and shot in Syntagma.
But pretending like they are the only guilty ones, or as if the Greek people did the borrowing, is just insane.

The banks and their puppets in governments are to blame for this whole mess. From Greece to Germany to the UK and everything in between and all around. These people are pure evil and corrupt to the core. They do not give a damn about Greece or Germany or the people of any country, what they care about is money and power. More money means more power. More money means more influence. More money means they are that bit more untouchable.

You know the old saying, money is the root of all evil? Well there's a reason why that saying exists..and you are witnessing why that saying exists today before your very eyes in Greece.

a reply to: paraphi

Actually, the Greeks are responsible for their debt, having lived beyond their means for many years. Countries are no different that companies or people. If you borrow too much then the good times won't last. That's Greece.

Actually, the French and German banks borrowed too much with the blessings of the past Greek Governements. Then the crisis came and EU bailed out the German and French banks, while placing their exposure as debt for the Greeks to pay by imposing a recipe that does not work. 5 years after EU still denies to make the debt sustainable.

Peace

If you wana win the game you have to play the game with their rules. Leaving is cheating.

originally posted by: mortex
Actually the Greeks aren't responsible.
Greek governments are.
The Greek governments of the past 40 years lived beyond their means.

The Greeks have consistently voted in governments who have promised them a better life. For a couple of decades the Greek people profited.

The Greeks are to blame through their government. While I feel great sympathy for the Greeks, they have been masters of their own fate.