Single seater sports cars of the Neolithic period.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Sorry, I lost my point along the way, you said that there were "plenty of papers" supporting a date as early as 6500, which bring us closer to 7500 year ago which the OPs object is claimed to date from, but as far as I know, there is nothing other than this object and then, around 5500 years ago an explosion emanating from the Pontic Steppe...so I suppose I was wondering where you're getting your dates from...or perhaps you're mistaken?

a reply to: Anaana

I may not have been clear enough. There are documented cases of wheels (potters wheels and such) but not wheeled vehicles. I meant 'wheel' in its most loosest connotation.

After all this time you still remain one of my favourite posters on this site.

Thank you for another very informative thread.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The Potter's Wheel appears later than the wheeled vehicle except in Mesopotamia where the two technologies are roughly emergent at the same time. However, these appearances in the archaeological record only really reflect high status burial goods and votive objects such as the one in the OP, and therefore only once such technologies had become associated with individual ownership and status. The people who seem to have "invented" the wheel, the Yamnaya, used them to move with their cattle herds across the steppe so there is bound to be scant evidence of the first carts, except perhaps of a toy made by someone who'd seen these people or travelled to trade with them. I just don't get why the museum is being so sluggish.

a reply to: Anaana

Here's something to consider, the cultures that first adapted the wheel also as i pointed out very much concerned themselves with the Swastika and the seeming rotation of the Heavens around Celestial North and the daily solar cycle, in symbolic terms these were always seen in conjunction, but of course the effect is produced by the rotation of the Earth upon it's axis.

The question is then is the bowl that is often seen in the ritual kultwagen representative of the Earth and was it understood that the wild hunt that seemingly passed across the skies was simply an effect of the mystical grail spun upon the potters wheel.




a reply to: Aussieamandarc

Thanks, i find the little kultwagens very intriguing.

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: Kantzveldt

Ah.......Back in the day they had carts right......Is a cart a car......NO.

well the original model T was basicaly a horse carriage with a small motor!

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
Here's something to consider, the cultures that first adapted the wheel also as i pointed out very much concerned themselves with the Swastika and the seeming rotation of the Heavens around Celestial North and the daily solar cycle, in symbolic terms these were always seen in conjunction, but of course the effect is produced by the rotation of the Earth upon it's axis.

There's no need to simply consider it these aspects of our shared cultural history are reasonably known, genetics and linguistic studies are filling in the gaps in our understanding from which a pretty comprehensive picture of human activity and movements in prehistory is125,000 years ago we were able to travel the coastlines from Africa into the Arabian plateau and from there we could use that technology to navigate the coastline all the way to Australia, eventually. It took another fifty thousand years for us to start adapting to inland conditions, potable water being a primary consideration which the coast hoppers had already overcome, malaria would have been harder for those travelling in land without the sea water to keep them clean. Over this very long process we eventually made it to a point where we had adapted to the harshest of environments, or some of us had, the Yamanaya best represent this group moving up into the Siberian tundra and there, branching off into the Americas over the ice bridge around 24,000 years ago, as well as expanding west across the Pontic steppe. I believe that it is likely that long prior to conceiving of the wheel, they had employed the sledge, enabling them to traverse vast distances across the ice in winter to trade with those in the temperate zone. When they entered the Americas there is evidence that they took with them domesticated dogs. Living most of their lives in a frozen landscape they lived by night, and navigated by the night sky, recognising, as night dwellers do, that the stars are not fixed. The groups that descend from the Yamnaya share the same root symbolic language.

The wheel seen as an adaptation of the sledge, to a change in their environment, the retreat of the glaciers that enabled their success to continue at trading across vast distances. It also led to their ability to occupy the newly emerging, lush grasslands of Pontic Steppe, enabling them to adopt cattle herding on a much larger extent and leading to a population explosive that resulted around 5,500 years ago in their expansionism, what we refer to as the Proto-Indo European culture that moved, simultaneously, though at varying paces, down from their Eurasian heartland the Pontic region into central asia and Europe. The wheel appears with them, along with the roots of five words that relate to the wheel. Once that technology is available for other minds to consider it is adapted to other uses, and once horse power had been bred and harnessed, it was perfected, everything else since is merely tweaking.

a reply to: PLAYERONE01

well the original model T was basicaly a horse carriage with a small motor!

The T model was about 40 years after the first horseless carriages developed by Daimler and Benz-which were produced in the 1880's.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
There is no steering mechanism therefore they are just kids toys.

The chariot was around and was pulled by horses.

If they find a full size one with steering and pedals then all this phoney speculation over kiddie toys that do not have them mechanisms would mean something.

Assuming for a moment that the stories of atlantis were true, that they had advanced technology. A car would be but a mere feat compared to what they were truly capable of. There is evidence that such advanced civilizations existed in the past. But what if a catastrophe happened that took humanity into the dark ages and they had to start over from scratch?

We cant discard the many possibilities out there. Perhaps Assasins Creed gives us a clue? After all, the elites have a nasty habit of telling us the truth through forms of fiction.

Watch this with an open mind.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

The first image/example is interesting, but I have to admit I am skeptical of it's assigned age. Stone artifacts (unlike organic materials) cannot be carbon dated, but rather their age is estimated by the sediment layer they are discovered in...aka context clues. I researched but could not find anything to support the claim of the age of the toy chariot. The archaeologist seems to have assigned this age without much explanation.

The fact that they have chosen to play with the "toy car" idea to drive museum traffic...vs. Toy Chariot, which I am pretty sure it is ...tells me they are motivated to create buzz around the exhibit and in that context I have skepticism on the 7.500 year old claim. Again...you can't carbon date stone artifacts.

That said...I certainly believe that our record of history is constantly evolving with new discoveries and shouldn't be assumed to be correct.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: randyvs

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Kantzveldt

Interesting considering the scientific community says the wheel was invented in about 2k BC.

Phfff! Who listens to them?

Actually it serves as evidence that modern views of our history aren't all that accurate.

There is nothing to actually confirm the model somehow foresees a car in the manner we would define one, it's essentially a box with wheels so could represent a cart or chariot. As has been posted, there is no visible sign of a steering mechanism or even a brake come to that so anything else is pure speculation.

originally posted by: SoulSurfer

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
There is no steering mechanism therefore they are just kids toys.

The chariot was around and was pulled by horses.

If they find a full size one with steering and pedals then all this phoney speculation over kiddie toys that do not have them mechanisms would mean something.

Assuming for a moment that the stories of atlantis were true, that they had advanced technology. A car would be but a mere feat compared to what they were truly capable of. There is evidence that such advanced civilizations existed in the past. But what if a catastrophe happened that took humanity into the dark ages and they had to start over from scratch?

We cant discard the many possibilities out there. Perhaps Assasins Creed gives us a clue? After all, the elites have a nasty habit of telling us the truth through forms of fiction.

Watch this with an open mind.

No. Atlantis was featured in a story (not stories) by Plato. All the talk of advanced technology stems from a new age craze in the 20th Century, Assasins Creed is a video game - why would you associate that with this?

originally posted by: PLAYERONE01

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: Kantzveldt

Ah.......Back in the day they had carts right......Is a cart a car......NO.

well the original model T was basicaly a horse carriage with a small motor!

Yep you are right on the money and even earlier cars were in fact carts basically with motors attached to them. This post is kinda misleading in a way because these are not cars they are carts. The mind wants to make the pieces fit anyway it can.

Kool find as usual, now if they had just added a sail and steering.

a reply to: Spider879Nice spider,
That reminds me of a section of Lewis and Clark's journal.
They had just finished sailing up the Missouri river and and had gotten into the plains. It was so windy they attached the mast and sails from the boats to the wagons and as sailed the prairies for a short time.

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
There is evidence that such advanced civilizations existed in the past.

People keep saying this (and not providing supporting evidence) and I have looked and looked and still not found evidence...

originally posted by: SoulSurferBut what if a catastrophe happened that took humanity into the dark ages and they had to start over from scratch?

There would still be physical evidence.....

originally posted by: SoulSurferWe cant discard the many possibilities out there.

Au contraire. We can discard most of the 'possibilities' out there, especially the 'out there' ones.

a reply to: jaws1975

exactly what i was thinking - the 'humanoids' in the vehicles are bipedal, but barely human.

the swastika may also be thought of as symbolizing a vortex (similar to "schwarze sonne" symbol -of a black hole).

nice find. very reminiscent of von daniken's mayan "toy" flying model (found in Bogota).

originally posted by: jaws1975
What's with all the reptile huminoids in chariots? Is the goddess with the swastikas a reptilian?

Jaws sometimes it's just a wheeled chariot with some stylized duck men, there were no halfbreed human /ducks mixture nature is not crazy like that those weren't Daffy or Donald duck's ancestors, one cannot simply spliced those two desperately separated species together to make it work, also what would be the point, it's a wheeled car which is pretty cool in any era, no need of alien involvement so pls people stop crediting the work of our ancestors to off worlders.

I think the single seater idea is mainly of artistic nature.
Look at the basic forms, molded by hands. The seat has roughly the size of a finger fitting in..
it is a p l a s t i q u e .

originally posted by: Spider879

Kool find as usual, now if they had just added a sail and steering.

Well...that's the energy crisis solved...