I'm new to this forum, but I'll answer your question as best as possible.

I think one of the main reasons Christians are disliked/hated/whatever, is because most people feel as if religion is being pushed upon them. Even as a Christian, I still feel that way. And that alone amazes me. It amazes me because Christians are literally commanded to love, and yet, the ones I have seen, the ones I have talked with, do not. They're judgmental and have a reputation of being ignorant and of doing stupid things.

Another reason, I personally believe, is because of George Bush. His profession of being a Christian completely disgusts me. You are known as a Christian by your fruit, and his fruit is war and perversion.

I believe religion is a two way street. If you respect mine, I will respect yours. I think, that alone is one main answer to your question.

I don't believe that people today hate true followers of Jesus; they dislike the practitioners of divisive and hypocritical religions.

After a long and twisted, but interesting path, I finally decided to to live as a Christian. I was baptized and raised Catholic, but left that church at 8 years old due to the obvious hypocrisy. I was further alienated when I realised that I was gay and felt none of the mainstream christian churches would accept me. I went through several decades of atheism, depression and alcohol use. However, after doing my 12-step program for alcoholism and asking the higher power to remove my desire to drink(which it was), I had a Paul-like moment of realising that there was indeed a universal consciousness/higher power that we humans can connect to, a consciousness named by some as "god." I then rediscovered Jesus after reading the gnostic gospels, particularly that of Thomas and realised that Christianity is the following of the teachings of Jesus, not the participation in a "christian" religion. It might be worth remembering that none of the so-called christian religions even existed during Jesus's lifetime; they have nothing to do with his message. It is the religion that alienates me, and those who "hate christians" hate these people for their religious zealotry, not because they follow Jesus.

Furthermore, IMHO, to be a Christian one does not need to believe Jesus is god, but simply a wise philosopher and teacher. To me, Christian = follower of Jesus, not necessarily a worshipper of Jesus. What did Jesus preach? It is quite simple really:

Don't judge (ie, live and let live),
Don't value material things,
Care for the poor and weak,
Practise forgiveness of others,
Make one's mission in live the service of others and one's community,
Develop one's conscious contact with the universal god,
Acknowledge that one is part of that universal divine consciousness and that, as such, one's needs will be met,
Realise that we neither are(spiritually) born or die, but are simply manifestations of that universal consciousness of god(that is called a soul in the bible),
and
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you..


If we all lived this way, there would be no strife in the world, we would advance technologically, we would respect our environment and all living things as they are a physical manifestation of god. One of the reasons that I believe Jesus was simply a wise man is that his teachings are practical and deal with life in THIS world. Why would he care about our life on Earth with literally trillions of stars and habitable planets in the universe if he was really some sort of "divine" nonhuman ie.,alien? Anyway, IMO that is all embellishment added centuries after the death of Jesus to create a powerful religion. But, it does not detract from his message.

I have never found anyone who hated me because of these beliefs; rather, they are intrigued by them and want to know more. This tells me that I am on the right track. In the bible, Jesus's message attracted huge numbers of followers and he never said anything negative about gay people and, if anything, he was a socialistic liberal--not a right wing Republican. The Jews persecuted him since he was becoming too popular and posed a threat to their social order, not because he was a "god." If his message is delivered correctly today, it should create crowds of happy people, not cause people to hate Christians; if it does, we are probably delivering it incorrectly. Gospel means the "good news" not the bad or critical news or hateful news. People should be glad to hear it, not hate us for it. Those who preach hate in the name of Jesus, and thus turn people away from him are the worst sinners imaginable.





[edit on 5-6-2007 by j_kalin]

Even people like me, who beleive in Christ but are not part of the religion Christianity, do not have a positive view of the religion.

my reasons are personal, but so are most I think. Its because many chirstians DO push themselves on others in a very direspectful way that makes the other person feel like they are "less" then chirstians. No other religion does this at such a widespread level. Honestly it seems like many chirstians have a superior adittide towards others.

and that is VERY UNCHRIST-LIKE BEHAVIOR. Its hypocritical and gives us a very bad impression of the religion as a whole.

Well folks have i got news for you.... the hatred is just going to get a whole lot worse !

Why ?

Well something about George Bush-Focus on the Family and all those nice Americans who since the mid 70s have been pushing the line of lower taxes personal responsibilty God wants us to be prosperous (the smoking gun for those researching the history of USA relgion is that following David Wilkerson's book The Vison George Otis brought out The Blueprint which is prue Regan politcal views... the results of which have and are currently so annnoying people all over the world)

So like it or lump it the rightwing USA agenda and tha antics of Neopentecostals- on going so you can study this phenomia before it disaapears- is going to according to a Rick Joyner prophecy book-The Storm; break upon the Christain church and appear to have destroyed it.

So what to do ?
Well I wandered down to the local mosque a number of years back said Laillah ilaha and became part of another faith community.
If you have Jewish heritiage do take the open door opportunity currently occuring throughout USA to get in touch with the religion of your ancestors
Some of you have already dropped out of the religous razz ma tazz and meet in homes just like the early church did and the church does in times of severe persecution.
But please please please for your own sake and everyone elses (who need to share in the salvtion that you have recieved) do not stand in the headlights like a stunned rabbit and get run over as USA goes down and takes most of the existing structure of the nonconformist church with it in that collapse of an empire.

Now I appreciate that you have never ever heard someone speak as directly to you as a precious saint of God like i am doing now.... and maybe you as a loyal to your Pastor, a church going American and are reacting very very strongly at this point.
So let us pray; Lord you know our hearts and how we love you and want to do you will- therefore please in some other way confirm these words in so that i can be sure that you have spoken according to your living word Amen love paul

Furthermore, IMHO, to be a Christian one does not need to believe Jesus is god, but simply a wise philosopher and teacher. To me, Christian = follower of Jesus, not necessarily a worshipper of Jesus.

I suspect that following Jesus in behavior would be a lot better than not doing so.

But it's a very . . . mangled . . . sort of thing pretending to be Christian, imho.

Christ was

1. who He said He was (i.e. God)

or

2. He was a grand Machiavellian deceiver of less than zero worth as a moral leader and teacher.

or

3. He was a lunatic.

IF

He was who He said He was . . . then He DESERVES, WARRANTS being worshipped as God--because it's just the facts. He said that no man reached Father Almighty God except through Him. He said that. He meant it. Evidently Daddy set things up that way.

One can rail at the arrangement.

One can deny it.

One can shuck and jive and rationalize about it.

However, God happens to be THE SUPREME BOSS. He tends to like things ran according to His plan.

Certainly living Christ-like principles will have rewards not doing so would not have--for the individual doing the living as well as those around.

But . . . it's a bit like . . . having a partial . . . dream alone at night . . . and convincing one's self it was a grand honeymoon night. Doesn't quite wash from a number of perspectives.

BO XIAN, you forgot options 4 and 5 that lewis excluded (mainly because they demolish his argument).

4: jesus was a fictional character
5: jesus was completely misquoted

Originally posted by BO XIAN

Furthermore, IMHO, to be a Christian one does not need to believe Jesus is god, but simply a wise philosopher and teacher. To me, Christian = follower of Jesus, not necessarily a worshipper of Jesus.

I suspect that following Jesus in behavior would be a lot better than not doing so.

But it's a very . . . mangled . . . sort of thing pretending to be Christian, imho.

Christ was

1. who He said He was (i.e. God)

or

2. He was a grand Machiavellian deceiver of less than zero worth as a moral leader and teacher.

or

3. He was a lunatic.

IF

He was who He said He was . . . then He DESERVES, WARRANTS being worshipped as God--because it's just the facts. He said that no man reached Father Almighty God except through Him. He said that. He meant it. Evidently Daddy set things up that way.

One can rail at the arrangement.

One can deny it.

One can shuck and jive and rationalize about it.

However, God happens to be THE SUPREME BOSS. He tends to like things ran according to His plan.

Certainly living Christ-like principles will have rewards not doing so would not have--for the individual doing the living as well as those around.

But . . . it's a bit like . . . having a partial . . . dream alone at night . . . and convincing one's self it was a grand honeymoon night. Doesn't quite wash from a number of perspectives.

Love those partial ...dreams LOL (is ... a forbidden word on ats?)

I was waiting for this response; I didn't address it in my last post because it is too easy.
First, thanks for reading my entry above. I put some thought into it. You forgot your #4 which would be that Jesus was a [human]Jewish rabbi who had some unusually liberal/socialist ideas and who was wildly popular for teaching a rewarding and practical way of living and renouncing the wealth oriented and overly strict rules of the reigning jewish leadership.

Second, the judgemental attitude displayed above is exactly the attitude that gets "christians" hated. Didn't Jesus say "Judge not...?" IMO everyone should discover god in his own way using Jesus as a guide. That is what he preached and that is what it says in the gnostic gospels(which were suppressed as they were contrary to a powerful heirarchical catholic church).

"The kingdom of god is inside of you and outside of you" Thomas 3:1
"When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known and you will realize that you are the children of the living father." Thomas 3:4
I am the light that is over all. I am the all. The all comes forth out of me. And to me the all has come. Split a piece of wood-I am there. Lift the stone and you will find me there."Thomas 77: 1-3

I think the above support my ideas in my previous post.

Before you say that the gospel of Thomas is not a "real" gospel, realise that the current books of the bible were picked from about 200 that existed before that book was compiled. Thomas is just as old as the others. Because it is less heavy with the "I am god" stuff and has more of the "look inside yourself to discover god for yourself" it was rejected by the power hungry early roman church. IMO it is the most true to the truth of what Jesus tried to convey and was thus considered too dangerous. Fortunately it was preserved in the Nag Hammadi scrolls which proves its age and authenticity.

But I drift, taking the line "No one comes to the father except through me"(also in Thomas) as it is, it is wide open to interpretation. Perhaps it means we literally have to cut a hole in Jesus and wriggle through? That would be a literalist/christian fundamentalist view...Or perhaps it means, you must listen to what he says and do it in order to reach unity with god/the universal consciousness. Well, isn't that what I said in my post? Did Jesus ever say "get on your knees and worship me!" No. Did he say build a mega church and give a guy with bad hair and a hidden gay sex life and who preaches hate against various minorities 10% of your income? No. He said to do as he does and don't judge. Take care your own house is in order. Don't criticize the splinter in your companions eye and ignore the beam in your own. Spread the good news, but dont condemn those who choose not to listen to you. What part of the word of the MAN Jesus do you not understand? I will do my best to explain it as best I can. I think the problem is mixing up what the disciples said after he died and what was said in the old testament with what Jesus said.

[edit on 6-6-2007 by j_kalin]

[edit on 6-6-2007 by j_kalin]

I could say a lot, suffice to say that I pray to God (and I have no religion) that someday the American prople will have the guts to say once again "Merry Christmas".

Originally posted by PONCE
I could say a lot, suffice to say that I pray to God (and I have no religion) that someday the American prople will have the guts to say once again "Merry Christmas".

um, they do. all the time. they say merry christmas every day from the day after thanksgiving to christmas.

Originally posted by zysin5
Look, its tiresome of people thumping their bibles at me, telling me Im going to burn in hell, or Im a Fag, and the end is near, and when I die, Im going to burn in hell..

I agree no one should be judgemental towards you....

Originally posted by zysin5
When you have the top masters of the craft rolling in GODS money.. which is Gold oil and Drugs...

...so why are you judging others?

Originally posted by Still_Learning
i beleive that people dont "hate" them persay, its just they get very annoyed by the majority of them

I think this is a fair statement.

Originally posted by Still_Learning
meaning, in christianity it says in the bible that god is not a condeming one....

Nono, God does condemn. He loves, but will condemn. It would be contradicting if it did not say this "...He does not leave the guilty unpunished." But, it does.

Originally posted by Still_Learning
yet all people talk about is goin to hell, if you dont do this, you go to hell, it kind of contradicts in and of its self, and also i think one of the reasons is because majority of christians only think that there is one god and think that everyone else is going to "hell", which just justifys that persons narrow-minded behavior

I agree people can be narrowminded and judgemental. Certainly they should not. God is the judge and we do not see another's heart.

Originally posted by Still_Learning
also most christians tend to shove their religion in people faces which i think is wrong

I'd like to add a word if I may: "most vocal Christians tend to shove their religion in people faces which i think is wrong". To which I would agree. Don't know how shoving anything would be right.

Originally posted by Still_Learning
but i also believe that tellin people that their religion is wrong also, so im not saying that christaians bleifs are wrong im just saying for them to let people be people and not just think that their religion is the #, because most of them are just ignorent to anything else

Beliefs are very personal and it would be very inconsiderate to consider another's beliefs...ah...crap, as you say in more direct wording.

People hate Christians because of church and all the past satanic violence they did in the name of God and also because of all recent scandals and corruption.

Also a lot of Christians are hypocrites who preach one and do another thing, sometimes very abusive and perverse -- in church and at home. This is why all who are true Christians need to stand up and expose evildoers and not look down and remain silent!

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
BO XIAN, you forgot options 4 and 5 that lewis excluded (mainly because they demolish his argument).

4: jesus was a fictional character

One must way evidence (if you don't believe) to make that determination. Last time I sat in a secular history classes in high school and college, it's weighing in that he did exist...it's just a matter of if he was who he says he was. That's usually where the debate is.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
5: jesus was completely misquoted

To say he was misquoted means you know what he truly said. So then, what did he "truly" say and how is it different than what what was recorded?

Originally posted by sb2012
Also a lot of Christians are hypocrites who preach one and do another thing, sometimes very abusive and perverse -- in church and at home.

A lot of people are hypocrites who preach one and do another thing, sometimes very abusive and perverse. Correction, all people are hypocrites who preach one and do another thing, sometimes very abusive and perverse. Anyone who says otherwise is only fooling themselves.

Originally posted by sb2012
This is why all who are true Christians need to stand up and expose evildoers and not look down and remain silent!

Whoa hey, I thought the issue was that Christians were standing up and exposing evildoers. I don't mind us doing so, as long as we start with themselves..."for all have sinned and falls short of the glory of God"

Originally posted by saint4God
One must way evidence (if you don't believe) to make that determination. Last time I sat in a secular history classes in high school and college, it's weighing in that he did exist...it's just a matter of if he was who he says he was. That's usually where the debate is.

but the problem is that historians are still unable to verify the existence of jesus with evidence...

To say he was misquoted means you know what he truly said. So then, what did he "truly" say and how is it different than what what was recorded?

no, to say he was misquoted is to say that people writing down what was supposedly said were doing so a considerable amount of time after the fact...and then there is the issue of all the crap that god thrown in the bible during translations (that whole line in the sand thing jesus was supposed to have done is such an addition, i recomend "misquoting jesus" for more info on this).

hell, what about the islamic view of jesus (or isa, as they'd say)? does that get completely discounted?

[edit on 6/12/07 by madnessinmysoul]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by zysin5
Look, its tiresome of people thumping their bibles at me, telling me Im going to burn in hell, or Im a Fag, and the end is near, and when I die, Im going to burn in hell..

I agree no one should be judgemental towards you....

Originally posted by zysin5
When you have the top masters of the craft rolling in GODS money.. which is Gold oil and Drugs...

...so why are you judging others?

Hi Saint4God, thanks for taking the time and reading my post.. And I think its fair to say most people agree here on this thread..
I dont mean to judge others by saying many preists and those who are the face of christians have been less than faithful to their hearts and followers.. Is it judging someone to see them for who they are and what they do?

Well what about the whole evolution is a myth thing? I mean come on it's fact that we evolved through time and if you are told otherwise and believe it then that is just blind thinking.

The bible is a guide to live your life not the one and only word.

Originally posted by corsig
Well what about the whole evolution is a myth thing? I mean come on it's fact that we evolved through time and if you are told otherwise and believe it then that is just blind thinking.

The bible is a guide to live your life not the one and only word.

very healthy take on it. the whole creationist movement is really giving christians a horrible name. unfortunately... it's a sad majority of christians that actually buy into it.

that and the bigotry towards homosexuals and atheists.