At Age 3 — Transitioning From Jack To Jackie

originally posted by: JadeStar
My parents would like to chime in if that's ok? If so then expect to hear from my mom (Tamara) and dad (Brian) this evening or tonight.

They are absolutely most welcome.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

I've always found it best to give the time some time if you know what I mean. There are long term consequences for this little soul and the parents won't have to deal with half of it.

I understand completely. Like I said before - I think most people want to do the right thing - and are terrified of doing the wrong thing

Over compensation I'll bet is pretty common

We live in interesting times Tenth. So much of this is brand new to so many people. I don't think anybody really knows what the right course of action is

a reply to: Threegirls

Threegirls, thank you for bravely coming to this thread and sharing your story about your son. It just goes to show that people with this trans whachamacallit stuff is serious and life changing for parents and families as well as for the person involved. It is when we step out and tell our stories it makes us all more human and helps people that may have little understanding of these issues have more.

I don't talk about these things with anyone and haven't for years but after seeing how Jade was fighting the fight alone, I decided whatever anonymity I thought I was protecting wasn't as important. It did take a little nudge but I am now glad I decided to join the party too

All the best to your son and to his mom for her strength and compassion.

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: Liquesence
I thought of that too. I don't think they should necessarily have adamantly refused, but at least kept it in the home for a few years to see how it progressed.

And i briefly touched on the possible harm later in life (or in a few years) of not allowing it versus allowing it. Which would cause the greater harm, if at all? But that all depends on whether or not, in this case, it is truly (or more) biological or truly (or more) environmental.

If it's mostly environmental then allowing it might prove more harmful (socially), but if it's biological then forbidding or expressing it might prove to be more harmful.

Like Annee said, I sure wouldn't want to be a first time parent trying to figure all this out. Since there's never been anything but theories to explain trans* or even gay, no one can definitively know if it is biological, psychological, environmental or as several have even posited in this thread, spiritual. Hell, as far as I'm concerned, I have absolutely no clues about myself or any finger I can point and say aha any more than I know why I don't like brussel sprouts or why given the choice between chocolate and vanilla, I usually go with vanilla. Some things defy explanation and just are.

And, for all those who say parents know best ---- uh, no they don't.

Even though I'm using my Autistic grandson as an example it still applies. Fortunately, we did listen to the teachers and evaluators (us, kicking, screaming, and in denial the whole time), but we took their advice anyway.

They were right, we were wrong.

Jade's parents will be posting with us sometime this evening to tell what her journey been like from their perspective and to answer questions. If I had folks still around, I'm sure they would want to do the same sort of thing. Jade is pretty brave because I'm sure if my parents did participate in something like this, they would have made silly embarrassing jokes about me and giggle afterward.

I'm hoping that those who have participated in this discussion and those that still might will come up with some questions or things you would like to gain insight into or see what they think or thought as parents of a child such as in the Jack/Jackie story in the OP.

I'm really really hoping some of you will show interest and come up with good things to ask. While some might be thinking I don't have any questions and know about this stuff, I'm afraid I might have too many because I do? The last thing in the world anybody wants to see another wall of my typing.



Anyway, it's pretty special they're coming to share and enlighten us so we can all better understand different points of view and I'm thanking them kindly in advance for their time and effort.

(It does dawn on me though that I'm probably fairly close to Jade's parents in age and I'm sure as heck hoping they don't have any questions for me because I neglected to study.)

I'm getting my parents signed up. They'll be posting something they wrote for you soon 😊

Hello ATS,

I am Brian, father of Jade(star) who you obviously know quite well. I am here with my wife, Tamara and we have read through this thread as well as another which Jade pointed out to us a few weeks ago dealing with administering hormone blocking medical treatments to postpone puberty. Both in that thread and in this one we've seen a great deal of misunderstanding and in some cases, downright hostility towards helping these kids live a better life.

We are both open for any questions you may have about what we went through raising our lovely daughter.

First a few things about our family.

I met Tamara, Jade's mother while in the U.S. Navy where I served as a Seabee (engineer). We married and had three children, two daughters and a son, before Jade was born just over 20 years ago. At the time we thought we had another son. It would not be long before we started being corrected by Jade herself.

As soon as she was walking she had a sort of, i don't know what else to call it, gentleness i guess would be the word, that you associate with girl toddlers. And as she grew and began to talk we soon heard her tell us. She always was going through my older daughter's old dolls and later would play dress up. All of us just thought it was a phase and that as she got older she would begin to prefer more boyish activities.

As Jade has told you, wasn't always easy. It took us a while before we understood fully the pain she felt as we tried our best to raise her as a boy. Accepting that what we did was causing her more distress, depression was very difficult for both of us. But that was just the beginning. Following the recommendation of the psychologists and doctor to allow her to start living as a girl was probably the hardest thing a parent has to do next to burying their child. In a way we did bury something. It was out ideas and dreams of who she would grow up to be. As a dad I very much was looking forward to raising another son. But sometimes nature does not go as intended and in such rare instances, a family has to seek out the professional help necessary for their child to live a happy life.

As I read her retelling of when I took her to have her hair cut, which had grown quite long before she attended school I had to stop and recompose myself because I had no idea how painful that experience was for her. I was very stupid, dare I say ignorant about gender issues. I certainly did NOT think that kids could be transgender then. So I did what a lot of fathers would do. I tried to encourage her to like sports and bought her some of the best cars and trucks around to replace the doll house and dolls which her mother threw out causing Jade to cry. I tried shame her, I also didn't realize how this would affect her. And as she said, I got angry every time she would sit down to urinate. I once got so angry after seeing her wearing one of her sisters old dresses that i took a strap to her. Something that will haunt me for the rest of my life because after that, she hated me. She hated us.

It was only once she could start being herself, something which Tamara and I reluctantly allowed, that she began to come out of her shell and open up to talking with us again.

I am going to turn this over to Tamara now.

Hi. I'm Tamara, Jade's mother.

I read what Brian told you and I want to say I think of the two of us he handled things better than I did during what I can only call "the dark years".

You know, we all form dreams. Our dreams for Jade started as soon as I saw the ultrasound and the doctor proclaiming that I would be having another son. That's when we start buying stuff in either pink or blue and start preparing for having either a son or daughter. I had two daughters and a son already and now we'd have the perfect family with two of each.

I was delighted!

But, I guess maybe I should have known better. When I was pregnant with Jade it was different than when I was pregnant with her older brother. You know how they say baby boys kick more? Well Jade was as tranquil as my two daughters were. Maybe that should have been a sign? But anyway I did not know what was to come once she was born.

After I had her I was very happy, we all were. She was born healthy and bright eyed with the cutest smile. She was always very communicative and began walking and talking fairly early compared to my other children and certainly much earlier than her brother. Her sisters and brother took great care of her. She was very playful and we didn't think much of her gravitating towards daughters old toys and clothes. All kids go through phases. But i'll never forget her running into the living room wearing a blanket as a dress and telling us that she was a girl. We nervously laughed and tried to forget that but she would continue insisting that she was not a boy no matter what we did.

As hard as my husband was on her I was probably worse. Brian didn't tell you this but I come from a very religious black family from Louisiana. This just wasn't n our experience so imagine me having to deal with relatives thinking we weren't doing our job as parents. It seemed like every time they or Brian's family would come over Jade would get into something else girly. And this inevitably would lead to accusations on my side of the family that either I or Brian were too soft on her.

So things came to a head around the time she was 4 or 5. I threw out all the girls old toys and took the clothes to Goodwill.

And I prayed to God that things would be ok. After all God doesn't make mistakes, or at least that is what I was taught. Little did I know, little Jade was praying every night for something else. She told me some years later she would prey that she would wake up the next morning as a normal girl like her sisters.

My family seemed to think more church going would be the solution. After all, I moved from NoLa to "Secular Seattle" and despite both Brian and I being conservative, traditional family type people, having come from those roots, somehow my family felt that we needed to get closer to God. So i took Jade and enrolled her in a Sunday school and Bible study.

That wouldn't last long as during the first week Jade questioned the teacher when she asked how God could be perfect and we be made in God's image if God made some girls have to live as boys because that's what everyone said they were. The teacher asked Jade where she got that from and she told her that she was girl but because of how God made her everyone thought she was a boy.

I was sent a note sternly telling me that Jade was no longer welcome there. this caused me to question my own ideas and faith.

So as hard as Brian was on her, I was probably worse.

Her father, before the psychologist even recommended it asked me one night as we laid in bed unable to sleep, if we should just let Jade play with what she wanted, wear what she wanted, and be happy at least at home. It was bad enough that she was being teased in kindergarten. He asked me if I thought we should maybe just accept her and see if maybe by doing that she might grow out of it. I said HELL NO, No SON of mine is going to prance around the house in dresses!! I think Jade might have actually heard me because just as she had stopped talking with her dad, it was hard to talk with her the next day and for weeks following. She truly hated us.

But what was I supposed to do right? I mean it's hard enough being a minority and her being of mixed ethnicity would already give some people a reason to discriminate against her. The idea that she might grow up to be a gay man or transsexual just broke my heart. I wanted to PROTECT her but everything I did which I thought was protecting her was making her more withdrawn, sadder and more depressed.

As she told you, one day when I told her that she was a boy and she just had to learn to like that she was she was about 6 i guess… well she turns to me and angrily said, "If I am a boy then I wish I had never been born! I wish you never had me!"

Not long after this, the psychologist told us that after assessing her and our situation for close to two years, that the best solution was the one i feared the most.

And so, in 2002, just when school let out for the summer, we sat down with Jade, now age 7 and explained what the doctor told us and said that we were sorry we treated her the way we did but that now if she wanted to, she could play with whatever she wanted and dress however she wanted at home. Her face seemed to just brighten up. I mean the normally sad, sullen face we had come to know just transformed. She got a really big smile and her eyes got bright, both things which I had not seen in years.

She then nervously asked if that meant that her dad would never take her to have her hair cut again. I just nodded and then she even more nervously asked if that meant she could have the Barbie stuff she had wanted for Christmas. I had tears and just nodded. And then she asked if that meant that she could dress like the girls at her school. And now I'm crying a lot. And I said, to her that she could and that I and her father and her sisters and brother love her no matter what, and that we just want her to be happy. My other daughters and my son began to treat her as their little sister and one day she asked me, what I would have named her had she been born like her sisters and I told her Jade after the lovely gemstone. She just smiled and said, "i like jade".

Well, it's getting late here but that's how it was before and up to when we made the decision to allow her to be herself.

And look how she's turned out! She's beautiful and so smart, with the world wide open for her, we're all so proud of her. I plan to write more tomorrow about the years from 7-12 which while better, were still a huge challenge for us as we had to not only educate ourselves but other family members, other people, school administrators, other parents. It was sometimes exhausting, though Jade was becoming progressively happier and better adjusted which made it all worth it.

If you want we are happy to answer any questions which you might have. Leave them here and we will answer them tomorrow. I gotta get up early tomorrow.

Thank you Mom & Dad. You rock! 😉😃😊

I was very busy but I read the entire thread and felt I should respond to some things. I feel there is a lot of ignorance in this thread starting with this:

originally posted by: Liquesence
First, my beliefs:

I think that some people *are* born "in the wrong body," so to speak, just as I think that some people are born gay.
But I also think that some people *do* decide to become transgender or [live a] gay [lifestyle], for whatever reasons.
I do not know the ratio, if such a ratio is even known.

I call this the choice fallacy.

The fact of the matter is I -DID NOT- choose this. It, for whatever reason, chose me. I didn't WANT to be born transgender. I wanted to be like any other girl.

My question is this, and one of the first things I wondered when I read the article: I wonder how much Jack having an older sister had to do with him feeling he's sad to be a boy and would rather be a girl? Kids (and adults, but kids even more so) are highly impressionable.

I don't think in either this child's case or mine that having older sisters was the cause. I also had and older brother. One who tried to convince me how "cool" being a boy was and cousins who were boys or men try to tell and show me how "boys were better than girls" (irk?!)

None of those head games worked.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
My kids are over twice his/her age and barely know what they want for breakfast nine times out of ten.

A three year old has their gender all figured out?

Wow.

I did. I don't know how else to convey it other than your sense of self is completely at odds with your body and what people tell you you are. It is the worst feeling in the world. I don't expect you to understand it.

And most boys and girls know they're boy and girls by the time they're age 3.

No one questions it either. Its only brought into question of whether a child knows who they are when they say they are the opposite gender.

originally posted by: redhorse
a reply to: Liquesence

I support gender transitions for adults or even adolescents (that are thoroughly evaluated and educated about the choice that they are making). Having said that...

I don't buy this story. If it's true, the child is too young and the parents are idiots. Period.

So this child's parents should have done the stuff my parents did when I was that age? Stuff which caused me a great deal of sadness and depression? Stuff which they now REGRET doing?

wow…..smh

originally posted by: gosseyn
What if he had a spiderman costume and played spiderman all day and said "I am sad because I am not spiderman", would those parents want to inject him spider DNA ?

I don't think at this age he can make difference between wanting to be a girl or wanting to be spiderman

That has to be the most ridiculous comparison ever! It's not like wanting to pretend you're spiderman or a nurse or anything else. It's a deep feeling that you are just wrong. You were born wrong. Everyone is trying to tell you that you're something you're not. And no one will LISTEN! Because you're just a kid who can't POSSIBLY know that you're really the opposite gender inside.

originally posted by: blacktie
he/she will probably suffer from depression, bi-polar, anxiety, drug abuse and possibly 'criminal' behavior in her 'older more mature' years, the 'tranny' doctors might give/inspire her a tv reality show within a year or two

Actually quite the opposite.

What you describe seems more likely to happen to those whose parents who were super restrictive/abusive to their transgender daughter. I've told this story before about a friend of mine who was from the same town but whose parents never understood or accepted her. I feel very sad for her sometimes and there have been times she couldn't be around me or my parents because it made her angry and jealous that her parents didn't let her be a girl. Today I am studying to become an astronomer and she's doing sexwork on webcams for "tranny porn" sites.

Make of that what you will.

originally posted by: Kali74
The child isn't getting hormones or having any physical changes to her body. Obviously it was more than just curiosity and wanting to play with her sisters things. Children know very early what gender they are... 99% of the time it's just 'well duh I have a vagina and I'm a girl, even if I like to cut my hair short, wear boys clothes... I'm a girl'.

Then there's kids, even at three, clearly unhappy with their physical gender and behaviors manifest that go beyond wanting to wear the opposite sex clothing and play as the opposite sex. I see zero wrong with letting a three year old 'boy' identify as a girl.

EXACTLY! Star for you! That's what I (and now my parents) are trying to say. This goes way beyond a curiosity or wanting to play dress up. I KNEW i was a girl it did not matter what anyone did or said to me and the fact that people kept insisting I was not supposed to feel how I felt only made it WORSE!

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Kali74

If a 15 year old, according to law anyway, can't understand the ramifications of having sex with a 20 year old, how can a three year old understand the ramifications of living as a gender they weren't born as?

The way I see it, by being forced to live as a boy I was being forced to live the gender I wasn't born as. I felt one thing, my brain thought one way and my body was something else incongruent with that.

So… I should have been forced to live certain way because of anatomy? I know that I probably would have killed myself had I been forced to go through male puberty.

But i get it, a lot of people would wish we didn't exist or were never born this way. Fact is, for much of my life I wished I didn't exist and wasn't born this way.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Kali74

I mostly agree.

Children can know what gender they are early on, but how do we know which is the case here? Does he *really* feel like he identifies as a girl, or is he simply influenced by his environment?

I'm not saying what's happening is right or wrong, I'd just like to understand (in this case) whether it's mostly biological or mostly environmental.

At the point at which a child enters the world does it really matter? Determining a cause does what for the child exactly? Nothing. They still have to exist. There are transgender people in every part of the world in every culture and have been for a long time. I think we'd be able to rule out an environmental cause on that basis.

originally posted by: paraphi
To be honest. It's the parents who are causing this.

Really? So you think my parents after what they told you were responsible for me feeling as I did?

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: Shamrock6
My kids are over twice his/her age and barely know what they want for breakfast nine times out of ten.

A three year old has their gender all figured out?

Wow.

I think letting kids do this this young , out of "being compassionate" is going to have serious long term effects on these kids, NEGATIVE ones......

If youre an adult thats one thing, but this is uncharted territory largely and people are jumping into this willy nilly not knowing the long term consequences

It's not uncharted territory. I exist. I'm doing ok I think? I know that other trans kids existed at the same time and are doing ok. Kim Petras for example:


Then:



Now:


Swap pop singer with classical pianist and science geek and Germany with the US and our stories are basically identical.

Regardless of what people tried to tell us or our parents, we were not ever boys. Ever.

originally posted by: ghostrager
a reply to: paraphi

Yes, it's the parents ignorance. They should be charged with child abuse for the psychological damage that they are inflicting on their child.

A three year old that just learned to speak believes in Santa and the tooth fairy, or anything else their parents encourage.

The REAL ABUSE in my opinion are parents who DENY children like me the right to exist as we know we are. Do you not think it would have been abusive if I, or Kim or the child the original post talks about were forced to be boys when when really weren't?

You can talk with plenty of transgender people whose parents did NOT allow their children to live their truth and often these people who transition later don't have the best relationship with their parents and family and have trouble in relationships of all types.

THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT FOR US!?

Sorry but *that* would be child abuse. I had suffered enough by the time I was finally allowed to be my a age 7. I can't imagine having to go another 7 years like that and I am almost certain I wouldn't have. I would have found a way to finally leave this body behind forever.

originally posted by: blacktie
I have run into parents that are very 'tuned-in' to their children's quirks and behavioral issues, and not surprised they find a 'medical and/or surgical' solution to this problem of sexual misidentification , they (the parents) are only trying to give their kids "everything" they want in life even if it includes transition.
in this case becoming a "family" issue/problem.

The problem is only a problem when people do not understand it. I had more issues with myself and school being forced to be a boy. Those issues cleared up once I could just start being me.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Liquesence

As Darth Prime pointed out, toddlerhood is exactly when kids figure out gender and gender roles.

THIS x 10000

Thank you!
:hearts:

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Kali74

"Probably", "likely", "most likely", all of that is just guesswork. We don't KNOW any of that.

I know if my kid looked sad and said "I'm not supposed to be a boy" I would ask a hell of a lot more questions than "are you happy?" as I'm driving to the store for ponytail holders.

Yes, and my dad did and so did just about every one else including a couple of "shrinks". Guess how all of that questioning made me FEEL?

Please guess..

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
Just for a reference, and also you don't just wake up one day and decide to be GLBTQ+

www.healthychildren.org...

Around two-years-old, children become conscious of the physical differences between boys and girls. Before their third birthday, most children are easily able to label themselves as either a boy or a girl. By age four, most children have a stable sense of their gender identity. During this same time of life, children learn gender role behavior—that is, do­ing "things that boys do" or "things that girls do."

There are some things that I agree with you on, but this assessment is just wrong. They are understanding and noticing that there are differences at that age, but children that young are in NOT CAPABLE of making a decision about switching genders. Here, you are cherry picking what you want and ignoring the rest of the applicable biology, neurochemistry, cognitive capacity, developmental curves and social factors.

No. No. No. In no way is a child that young capable of making that decision. Period. Done. Foot down. This is irresponsible and potentially very psychologically damaging to a child that young.

And you are 100% wrong. Sorry but I have to say that. You have not a clue what it is like to be one of us.

We exist. No matter how much you might WISH we didn't. We knew. And we exist.

Story. End of. Goodnight.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Daedal
If they want to play dress up and wear makeup at three and all that jazz, good for them. I'd have some serious questions for my child if it was a boy, though. Not saying I would forbid it, but I there would be a very lengthy discussion and questions. Automatically accepting that with little question and taking that outside the home is a bit rash, IMO. Or maybe taking it outside the home is better than suppressing it, who knows.

Those questions made me feel like a freak. Like there was more wrong with me than there actually was. I WISH my parents had automatically accepted me. It would have saved nearly 7 years of sadness and depression and I would not have been held back in 2nd grade.

originally posted by: ghostragerWith encouragement from parents, I'm sure they will want to be trans. But what parent would encourage that? The attempted rate of suicide for transgender is around 40% along with higher substance abuse.

Guess why that is? Because of people like you and others in this thread who who try to bully parents like mine into forcing us to be something we're not.

I was one of the lucky ones, my parents did the right thing eventually but others whose parents shame them, beat them kick them out of their house in their teens (oh yeah it still goes on) almost guarantee the outcome you referenced.

It is not because of accepting parents that these people want to kill themselves. It's because of the ones who DIDN"T accept them.

If i had gone through male puberty and grown facial hair, and had a guys voice and been treated by everyone as "man in a dress" i'd probably have killed myself too.

Instead I received the help I needed and I am very happy with my life now. I don't drink much. I don't do drugs and I certainly would not want to kill myself after I worked so hard to get to where I am.

I could not be here today talking with you about ANY of this stuff had my parents not supported me at a crucial developmental time for a child, pre-teen and teenager.

a reply to: JadeStar

You and your parents present an incredible story of a family that has grown and healed through something that would break most of us. I can't imagine, as a parent, having to go through what your parents have experienced and to be able to discuss it here with such open, self-awareness. I have nothing but admiration for your family, if only everyone was so lucky.

It's going a little off-topic but knowing what a bright little button you are I am compelled to take this opportunity to pick that prodigious brain of yours on this subject, if you don't mind? I have recently begun a writing story which at this initial stage is based in the 17th century, exploration of gender roles while not the story is a theme which in 17th century Europe manifested itself in girls and women being disguised as boys in order to gain social and economic independence. Pretending to be male opened up educational and employment opportunities at a time when the choice for women seldom extended beyond marriage, the veil, prostitution or destitution, it can be viewed as a rational choice, though one that came with risks. The wearing of male attire, even of cutting your hair, could lead to accusations of witchcraft or spying, either one could end sticky. I find this kind of choice easy to understand and I can relate to it. I have another character, based upon a historical figure (but he will be placed by me somewhat out of time that is half the point of the story though ), the Chevalier d'Eon...

Charles-Geneviève-Louis-Auguste-André-Timothée d'Éon de Beaumont (5 October 1728 – 21 May 1810), usually known as the Chevalier d'Éon, was a French diplomat, spy, freemason[1] and soldier who fought in the Seven Years' War. D'Éon had androgynous physical characteristics and natural abilities as a mimic, good features for a spy. D'Éon appeared publicly as a man and pursued masculine occupations for 49 years, although during that time d'Éon successfully infiltrated the court of Empress Elizabeth of Russia by presenting as a woman. For 33 years, from 1777, d'Éon dressed as a woman, claiming to have been assigned female at birth. Doctors who examined d'Éon's body after d'Éon's death discovered that d'Éon would have actually been assigned male at birth.

en.wikipedia.org...

What I have always liked about the Chevalier, is that he is swimming completely against the tide. She existed at a time when women's power almost exclusively came via the bedroom, to identify as female is somewhat extraordinary and many women at that time must have wondered at why she would "choose" to give up the world to be a prisoner of domesticity. She did have to prove herself to be a "man" before she could earn the right to live as she "chose" to, still, pretty brave and all credit to her, she definately made the most of her ambiguity. And she had the choice always, when it suited her better, to return to a he. As did my Polly Olivers returning to shes. They could have their cake and eat it. The Chevalier clearly didn't make an economic choice to be a woman like the Olivers did, and society couldn't believe, when he made that choice to live openly as a woman, that he could possibly have ever been a man because why would anyone choose to be a woman. I find this dichotomy fascinating, and just wondered if you could offer any insight, from your own experience of whether you think, or at any point felt, that it is more socially acceptable for a girl to want to be a boy, or if anyone ever expressed such sentiments to you.

Many thanks.

a reply to: TamaraAndBrian

Wow! Some powerful stuff there that.

Thank you Brian and Tamara so much. My first impulse is to reach out and hug all three of you and then do it again. When I bumped into Jade here not too many weeks ago, I instantly realized what an exceptional, vibrant and intelligent young woman she is and now after reading your stories, how exceptional all of you are. I've read your posts twice now and have been sitting here in quiet contemplation almost at a loss for words for all the many things I'm feeling and thinking. I am quite touched and it takes a lot to get through my thick skin.

The love within your family stands out the most with bonds strengthened by the difficulties and the high and lows and challenges you've all faced and worked through together. It is inspirational and heartwarming. I can't say enough.

Although Jade and I are two generations apart and have followed different paths to get where we are, it is uncanny how many of even simple experiences and memories of things mirror or parallel each other yet at the same time, many others remain so completely unique. There's a sisterhood there, whether spoken or not and getting to play her honorary adopted Granny has been fun and I think we've maybe both learned a few things and grown a little from our chance meeting. I have anyway.

Having the opportunity now to meet you, Brian and Tamara, and to hear of your experience and feelings raising a kid like Jade gives me insight and appreciation into my own parents and to some of what they must have gone through raising kid like me. As Jade and I have found interesting commonalities between us, I can see you would have been able to find many with my folks because there's no doubt I put them through the ringer over so many of the same difficult things.

Can we all have a hug again?

I do and will have some questions for you both that when answered will hopefully add some of your wisdom and experience to this thread to maybe help people open their eyes and not be so flatly stupid in these matters as well as maybe a few with more of a personal motivation to help me better understand what my own parents did have to go through in a time when there was no solution to deal with these things.

As I mentioned to Jade though, this place can be a pretty darn rough neighborhood at times so please don't let the hooligans and rowdies, idiots and haters run you off. It isn't always pretty around here but every once and a while, you catch a ray of light from a mind that is opening. Yikes! It's 3:55 AM and I have to get some work done before 5:00 so I will be back later to carry on.

Thank you again, Jade's Mom and Dad. You do indeed ROCK!

Thank you for your kind words EKron. x

I wish with all of my heart I had gained awareness and true understanding of what my son was going through sooner. I just honestly thought I had a miserable, angry child, that was the personality of the little girl I was raising.

I still go through very tearful days as I try to come to terms with the guilt I feel over my inadequate parenting. I take my hat off to Jade's Mum and Dad. I relate to so much of what each of you wrote, my husband is still struggling though and the rest of our family go through phases, sometimes they seem to get it, others, not so much.

I have noticed that in the USA much has been done to raise awareness of trans issues. Here in the UK the work has only just begun. We do have a few transgender adults in the public eye such as journalist Paris Lees and boxing promoter Kellie Maloney. Transgender guys are few and far between and the issue is rarely discussed.

Love and hugs to you all. X

a reply to: Liquesence

And again, why does anyone here on the "right" care about how other people raise their kids, when they would presumably be the first in line to condemn anyone daring to infringe upon their liberties and freedoms?

The kid isn't having any life altering medical treatments, the kid is just being allowed to live as they wish, with the loving support of their parents.

The only messed up people here are the ones demanding that other parents raise their children the way they DEMAND they be raised, and these same conservatives are the same hypocrites who would gladly (and often do) rant about their own rights to live freely and without any condemnation from others.

Leave people the f alone. It's not your child, you are not a psychologist, you are ignorant beyond belief if you think your opinions about how to raise someone else's child are the absolute correct option.

And, please, would you all stop being such hypocrites, preaching about your own freedoms, rights and liberties while at the same time claiming that others should be stripped of theirs or somehow punished for not following your dictatorial (often Republican, Christian, Taliban-like) rules about "morality".