At what point should we step in and say "Stop being religious..."

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: reldra

Yup call the rspca if a cat and social services if a child. I consider it neglect.

If you did this in the UK then it would be considered animal cruelty.

As a pet owner you are responsible for the health and well bieng of the animal. Not taking tha animal to the vet would most likely have you arrested and fined and more than likley lynched by the locals.

Religion is a personal thing, refuse your own hospital treatment if you wish to as that is your choice.

As soon as you start making decisions regarding others lifes on your own beliefs then in my opinion you are overstepping the mark.

a reply to: Ghost147
Do these people take pain relief medicine when they have a headache? Do they go to the doctor when they get exceptionally ill, or break a limb? Or do they pray their health problems away, and attribute it to "gods" will when it doesn't work?

Unfortunately, if they belong to one of those sects that will let someone die instead of getting medical help, there isn't much you can do, unless you want to report them to local authorities.

The verse in James, quoted on the first page should be enough for any Christian to see the error of their ways, but it usually isn't. They will come back with some other arbitrary verse from the gospels about healing.

Also, we have to remember. Some people aren't able to empathize with the suffering of another human, let alone an animal. Their own suffering is all they can comprehend. Sad, but true.

a reply to: Ghost147

So you want to control humankind and dictate to them what to believe?

Soon you will get your wish. Part of the world already thinks like you and the other part is catching up; just make sure you have plenty of blonde hair dye and plenty of blue eye contact lenses so you and your wife will fit in.

a reply to: Ghost147

Ghost147,

There is no point at which it would be acceptable to prevent people having a faith and practicing it, any more than it is acceptable that some would wish to prevent atheism, or discriminate against any particular demographic in any way. Solving ignorance and stupidity is a complex problem, which will only have a complex solution, not a simple, blanket, and over generalised one.

I can understand your frustration, but the answer to this conundrum is not to be found in discriminatory regulation against religion, but education of such a wide spread, and such quality, that people can practice faith without being prone to causing harm to people, animals, and themselves.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

So you want to control humankind and dictate to them what to believe?

Does it matter to you when a person's religious beliefs leads them to dangerous actions which causes the death of others?

a reply to: Ghost147

Man, talk about different cultures in 'Merica.

Where I live, a dog, or cat is hit by a car and suffering.....we shoot it to put it out of its pain and suffering.

I guess your cousins don't own a shot gun.

a reply to: Ghost147

Agreed-never. You have no right to tell anyone, just as you have the right to feel that way.

I think it would be interesting as to how this story would have gone with a different headline and placed in the pets forum.

If someone had posted that a family members pet had been hit by a car and was in need of medical attention but the owner had decided not to take it to the vets but instead sit there watching it suffer and "hoping" it got better then I think the responses would be very different.

a reply to: Ghost147

Being religious is not necessarily the source of this situation, since many religious folks would be racing to the vet.

Do you know exactly what their foundation for this practice is? There are plenty of interpretations that would support the use of a vet, and I would guess that route would be more effective than attempting to strip their faith completely. Either that or just sneak the cat to the vet. If euthanasia is the only suggested route, that gets into a bit different situation.

I am really quite easily confused though, being religious and all, so maybe I am just lacking enlightenment on the matter!

a reply to: Ghost147Maybe a better question to ask. Would be how about praying for the Vet and his skills to heal your cat. Vet, and Doctors have special places in most everyone's heart. Stop being religious statement would simple hurt those that believe that pray heals all things.

a reply to: TonyS

"Merica" is actually a pretty big place. There are plenty of areas, and people, that would have the same approach. It's actually pretty interesting though, how big of a divide there can be between localities. The largest seems to be between big cities and rural areas, unsurprisingly, but the actual differences can sometimes seem random.

originally posted by: Ghost147
My wife and I are both atheists. Just like a lot of atheists, we both state "believe what you wish so long as it isn't pushed on others, or harms something else".

Her relatives, on the other hand, are excessively religious, to the point that it has become a threat to the lives of others in the name of their faith.

This may seem insignificant to some, but what if this next incident were to happen to one of these people's children?

Her cousin just posted on facebook that her cat was hit by a car, and is currently unable to walk, or even stand up. Several of it's legs are broken and it is in extreme pain and misery. The cousin asked her family to help pray for her cat to get better. The family as suggested a number of specific prayers in order to faith-heal the cousin's cat.

Some of my wife's other family members (whom are "averagely" religious) are saying that they need to get the cat to the vet as soon as possible or it will die. The cousin and her family insist on praying alone, and although the cousin is following her family and doing the prayers they have suggested. *Spoil alert* The prayers haven't worked....

The cousin is becoming more and more frantic and has been considering taking the cat to the vet, like the other relatives have been stating. However, the direct family continues to insist on the prayers alone.

What makes it worse is that both my wife and I are very deeply involved in animal care. We just recently adopted a cat from the humane society, just brought 2 newborn kittens that we found in an abandoned garage to the humane society, have previously worked at the humane society and see just the amount of terror in the lives of some of the animals that the humane society receives because of animal abuse, among other animal-related conservation work outside of country.

Again, can you imagine if it wasn't your cousins cat that had this happen, but your cousins toddler?

At what point is it acceptable to step in and say "Stop being religious"?

EDIT: Will keep you guys updated on the situation

Its not a question about being religious its a question about common sense.

You cant change someone like that without them realising the hard way that their logic is not rational.

Lets hope the cat dies and they gain the common sense not to treat their toddler that way.

Its not religion, its intelligence or lack thereof

Ask them if they believe in Matthew 5:39.
If they are very devout they have to say yes.

"
But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."

Then start slapping the crap out of them. When they complain tell them It is Gods will and He is testing their faith.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: Ghost147

Agreed-never. You have no right to tell anyone, just as you have the right to feel that way.

This statement is the very core of the problem with humanity and specifically those who bang on about "Freedom of speech" and "it's my rights".

It is not OK for people to behave stupid and willfully hurt or harm, while we stand around doing nothing.
We cannot as humans be so tolerant that we accept such behaviour.

When we read that friends of a racist killer thought his racist jokes were innocent, and do nothing, we are as guilty.
When we see people refusing to treat a wounded animal and let it suffer, and do nothing, then we are as guilty.
When we tell people it is their right to be cruel in the name of religion, then we are stupid.

What we can tell them is that it is perhaps tolerable that they THINK like that, we will not accept them ACTING like that.
Eventually the stupid people will be fewer.

TOPIC UPDATE! The cat has now been taken to the vet. I don't know much about it's condition at the moment, only that it has been taken there.

originally posted by: BelowLowAnnouncement
a reply to: Ghost147
I guess what I'm saying is they should be thanking God for vets instead of praying to him for miracles if that's what they believe.

I've heard a similar joke with the same context. I actually completely agree with the whole concept of it to, and I think it does apply to the situation at hand. Very well said.

originally posted by: Layaly
a reply to: Ghost147

if it was not praying but herbal medicine or naturopathic or something along those lines
that they were suggesting

what would you think.. how would you feel

I don't really know enough about herbal medicines to really comment on that. I have heard great things in places such as China and India which would lend them some credibility. Even incidences that modern medicine could not "fix", yet the herbal medicine allegedly did quite easily.

Again, I'm not really familiar enough on the subject to comment. To my knowledge, though, isn't herbal medicine generally practiced on humans, not animals?

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: reldra

Yup call the rspca if a cat and social services if a child. I consider it neglect.

If you did this in the UK then it would be considered animal cruelty.

As a pet owner you are responsible for the health and well bieng of the animal. Not taking tha animal to the vet would most likely have you arrested and fined and more than likley lynched by the locals.

Religion is a personal thing, refuse your own hospital treatment if you wish to as that is your choice.

As soon as you start making decisions regarding others lifes on your own beliefs then in my opinion you are overstepping the mark.

I completely agree. I believe if they had continued to refrain from veterinary care, it would also fall under animal cruelty, regardless if they caused the initial damage or not.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Ghost147
Do these people take pain relief medicine when they have a headache? Do they go to the doctor when they get exceptionally ill, or break a limb? Or do they pray their health problems away, and attribute it to "gods" will when it doesn't work?

I have the same view on many religious persons who really put an emphasis on praying for this or that. The same could be said for locks, bars on your windows, and even passwords. They kind of go against themselves to a degree using anything like this if they are so adamant on prayers.

Of course, that's just a select few. I doubt the majority of religious people feel the same way.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: Ghost147

So you want to control humankind and dictate to them what to believe?

Soon you will get your wish. Part of the world already thinks like you and the other part is catching up; just make sure you have plenty of blonde hair dye and plenty of blue eye contact lenses so you and your wife will fit in.

If standing up for another being, human or not, is considered a "bad thing" or in some kind of way "power hungry" when someone else's beliefs are causing it physical or psychological pain, then I don't want to live in a world with those beliefs.

Can you honestly say that we should respect another persons beliefs if, lets say, a child's life is on the line? Or should we just let that child suffer horribly and die simply because we, for some reason, need to respect others' beliefs, no matter how ridiculous they might be.

Conversely, if a religion required unwilling human sacrifice, should we allow them to go out and grab someone to slaughter just so everyone gets to have their freedom of religion? I really hope you don't say "yes" to that.

originally posted by: Ghost147


Conversely, if a religion required unwilling human sacrifice, should we allow them to go out and grab someone to slaughter just so everyone gets to have their freedom of religion? I really hope you don't say "yes" to that.

Yet if christians decry abortion because its human life.

Its not just the religious that are baby killers, oh but to the majority of atheists those little people are nothings.

You choose your own morality.

You choose your own piousness

You have the freedom of your own religion.

a reply to: borntowatch

I'm not saying that atheists are any better or worse than any religious people. However, there aren't any Atheist beliefs to really go on in this topic considering it is an absence of belief on a single subject. Anti-abortion is not a christian exclusive population. Nor is the subject of choice only claimed a better option solely by the non-religious.

So again, does it really hold any merit to allow suffering or even murder for the sake of being tolerant to any part of any belief? If I start up a religion that is then recognized as an official religion by my country, and I then state it is part of my religion to assault a virgin every month, you would be perfectly fine with it because we must respect religious belief no matter what?

a reply to: Ghost147

thank u for ur reply

my question was if u can subsidiese in ur mind that redicilous pray for it for they are just hippies or herbalists

would it be less painfully for ur experience with them or not really

a reply to: Ghost147

do they ever push this type of response on your wife and you?
do u have any similar stories?
is very interesting

I say how it looks from outside
attack on religion with a perfectly beautiful intention
but is said so strongly even I get defensive but giving this no pre judgmental attitude reading your op was extremely touching and frustrating to hear that about pets not cool