Healthy Woman Granted Right to Die For Depression

I believe she has the right to die if she wants. Nobody asked to come to this world (as far as we know). There is no body of evidence to suggest that life is a net good; perhpas for some it is, but for many it is a nightmare.

A humane society should allow for a clean, quick, certain self-administered death if that is what the individual in questions wishes. I would support a certain number of "roadblocks" so that somebody wouldn't choose to make an off-the-cuff irreversable decision, but if the appropriate preconditions are met, it should be allowed.

Anyone who is familiar with my posts onsite regarding my condition is probably not aware of every aspect I've been through. But for the record, and since it's relevant to this discussion - I will share intimate details of certain experienes concerning more serious aspects of my sufferings. I only do so because I am somewhat disgusted by the arrogant assertions that "people with mental illness are not capable of rational thought therefore can't make that decision."

To those persons I say thusly:

Who died and made YOU the One True God?

Let me clarify that for the self-professed and self-appointed "god-heads" who think they "know it all" because they have a very superficial understanding of the multitudes of Heaven/Hell states of subjective experience out there:

I have, in the past, been in such psychotic states that I have heard doctors merely say "it's time to put this one down" and I am given a painful shot or horrible pill that knocks me into darkness with a matter of seconds. It's not gentle, it's exceedingly painful feeling your brain begin to shut down. It is like having your consciousness pulled into a black void, and the deeper you go, the more it hurts as you feel your mind reach maximum density. It is no word sort of terrifying every damn time.

Yet as many times as I have experienced this mental "death" , I always wake up in inpatient feeling refreshed and renewed.

Now granted, maybe that's the psychotic demon that's being treated. It's not irrationally violent, but it feels absolutely murderous but not to the point it would act on those feelings. However, when it surfaces, I become somewhat catatonic and my husband tells me I look exceedingly frightening. I've usually been taken into the ER when if happens in pubic, which fortunately, was not very often, and I am eternally grateful for the persons who have called the paramedics when I was in such states.

In twenty years, I have had only ONE injection that did not hurt or plunge me into a terrfying darkness.

I was not psychotic that time, but rather extremely frightened and weeping hysterically after a traumatic experience I won't get into. As I was being loaded into the back of the ambulance they gave me a sedative that calmed the exceedingly panicked part of my mind. It is the only time I ever felt an endless golden light that radiated a warm glowing love, and the only time I felt the presence of the multitudes of the Angelic Hosts. I know many of you will come up with all manner of excuses to tell me that I was merely hallucinating, or whatever have you to dismiss my spiritual experience, but it happened and to hell with you if you can't accept my testimony.

Now - you're probably wondering why I'm bringing this up.

Another aspect of my condition is Severe Depression.

My husband suffers from that Demon as well. To see him in the throes of that much internal pain is heartbreaking. He is not the type to harm himself, but I know we would be completely lost without one another. Every day is a misery when it surfaces. He will sit immobilized with heartbreak and internal pain he is too strong to vocalize. All I can do is gently try to take his mind off the pain, but sometimes I am not enough to pull him out of that bottomless pit, I can only shine a light for him to see enough to know he hasn't been completely forsaken by this world.

I think about release from this world all the time when I am in the throes of my conditions manifestations, but I am forbidden by a personal code to act on those thoughts. I have dealt with aspects of Schizophrenia that are more unbearable than any pain I can describe. I have experienced being flayed alive, my entire flesh burning with an unquenchable fire, and what I can only describe as the Prince of Darkness himself tormenting my mind with more excruciating pain than I can find words for.

My point being, I am unusually strong for a female....but every person has their own tolerance and coping levels.

If some young lady has been through ANYTHING remotely like what I have dealt with over the twenty years I have battled my condition, I would hope that there was a system in place KIND ENOUGH to give the appropriate gentle injections to help her let go of this world and return to that beautiful and endless Loving Golden Light I was once blessed enough to have experienced.

I know I'll get there one day, in proper time not by my own choosing, and I welcome that day should I be so fortunate to receive that Divine Liberation from this world in Gods Time, by Gods Design, by His Angels on Earth. I only hope when it comes time, they are Emissaries or Ambassadors of that Gentle Loving Light, and no longer those fakers and Dark Angels.

In short, the Hippocratic Oath is to Do No Harm - and sometimes continuing to deny effective treatment that only prolongs unnecessary suffering is tantamount to being an accessory to said suffering. If everything has been tried to no avail, and the person who is affected asks for release, I believe it is only right to honor that last wish.

This is one reason I hate it when anyone passes judgement on others for things they are lucky enough not to understand.

If I were able, I would insure that all who sought release were able to be given a release from their pains.

Where they wake up.....IF they wake up....such is not in my power to control...but wherever their soul finds itself...in this world or the next...I earnestly hope it is one where they not longer suffer the same illness ad ravages of the mind that compelled them to leave the previous plane of existence in the first place.

And if my spiritual terminology offends you, use that brilliant god-head mind of yours and substitute whatever nomenclature that works for you. If you still can't get the gist of it, well, I can't help you much now can I? I usually refrain from bring up spiritual subjects out of respect for others, but when something has gotten my goat like this, I speak my peace and won't push my personal perspective any further.

Anyway, thanks for reading my contribution.

I'm shutting up now.
*over and out*

a reply to: Spider879

The TV presenter says, "She doesn't have a life-threatening illness" like that's a condition of wanting to die. Considering the suicide rate for people with depression, it really is 'life threatening.' Maybe society needs to catch up with that and redefine its understanding of what depression is and what it can do.

People like to interpret depression as being a bit of negative thinking like when it's a Monday morning and time to get up for work. 'Oh no, Monday again...sigh.' It isn't that simple and most people would need to go through it to understand what it's like. Of course, we can't overlook the fact that it's different for different people too.

For me, it's been something to deal with since being a young teenager. Suicidal thoughts have intruded for as long as I can remember; not all the time, just periodically and not for a few months. You'll be able to guess my view on suicide simply because these words are in front of you. The bouts have grown stronger as time moves on and that's something I think about. I don't say 'suffer' and I try to view it as a challenge...something oppressive that can be withstood. Only those closest to me even know about it because I'm accustomed to it and hide it well.

In the young woman's case, her depression is too much for her to bear. The focus on her physical health is a red herring when her mental health could be diagnosed as 'terminal.' At the same time, depression is a mind/body phenomenon that isn't just thinking wrong. It's generated by the physical body pumping out some enzymes and hormones at rates that aren't suitable. There's possibly a genetic predisposition to depression too seeing as it can run through families. In that light, it's unfair to second-guess her mental health or decision-making because, by definition, she is not healthy.

There was a similar case here in England with a young woman feeling the same way. She's the daughter of an Archbishop and physically very beautiful. I only mention that because people often regard depression as being based on socio-economic factors and self-esteem. In her case, she's beautiful, well-educated and has a wealthy lifestyle. Yet still, her brain is misfiring and killing her ability to enjoy life.

I always grimace when a successful person kills themselves and people laugh and say, 'Ha, what did they have to complain about?' Isn't the fact that people with 'perfect' lives still commit suicide evidence enough that depression is a serious illness and nothing that a swift 'snap out of it' can cure.

It's hard for me to feel certain that euthanasia for depression is the right thing. It's all or nothing isn't it? 'No backsies' as the kids say lol. Nevertheless it isn't for the public to decide and we should worry about our own lives. The decision should always be discussed between the poor bastards who have depression and the medical professionals who help them.

Ultimately, it's the choice of the depressed. Legalised euthanasia allows the victim and family a death they can deal with.

I came out of treatment last year and feel great while another patient of my doctor drowned himself in a pond. He's dead no matter the method, but he died alone and other people had to deal with dragging the body out. His family will always be hurting. Far better that he could have gone through a process and his family could have come to terms with it before the end.

Reminds me of Johanna Sallstrom who suffered from depression and, despite being a mother and successful actress killed herself during a home visit from the hospital she was in.

I am sorry if I disagree with many, but I do think where someone persists with this ghastly disease - which cannot be seen physically - and kills themselves after becoming a parent should be avoided. Some people you can't save because their 'wound' is too severe and were this young woman 'Laura' to have a child it is not guaranteed that she would not kill herself at a later date leaving a devastated young one.

God knows why humans suffer depression, I have it albeit a milder form, but its not a disease that many truly understand and being able to describe how it affects one is impossible, because words don't cover it when suffering from it.

My heart goes out to Laura and others like her.

There's really no words that can truly describe severe depression. Many on this thread have done it to the best of their knowledge damn well, however! The suffering, or "challenge" of it, as an above poster put it, is beyond unreal.

My own suffering may one day cause me to end it all. There is no denying how horrible it is, if we are all being completely honest here.

I look at it through a different lens, however. If my mom, or my sister, or my best friend wanted me to assist them in suicide, I would not do it. No way in Hell. I would cling to, any and all other alternatives and I would do it until I myself died doing it.

It would be too painful and illogical to assist a loved one in suicide. Can you imagine? If I assisted a loved one in their death due to depression, I would always live with the fact that it was the wrong thing to do. By the time I could ponder these things, it's too late! I'd feel incredibly guilty while morning the loss of them. This would NOT be just because of ME and my own feelings about it, but all of the others as well, like their kids, their brothers and sisters, moms/dads who DO find so much value in their lives. Depression is NOT a terminal illness regardless of how hopeless it seems, it's only terminal in the mind of the severely depressed, which IS understandable.

Holy crap, that would create a whole new completely different level of depression...

I, as a faithful friend, companion, son, father, brother etc, would NEVER assist in the suicide of a loved one. And if I know that I would never do this, then I would never support a law that does it either.

Damn! I just wrote a reply and deleted it by mistake lol. Bugger.

All I was trying to say was I found the insight into your decision interesting. It's one I share even though I support the right for others to have an assisted death.

With regards to the 'thinking,' it seems like most people see suicide as a whimsical, spur-of-the-moment thing. In reality, like yourself, the decision comes after months and years of consideration. Even Shakespeare had Hamlet wringing his hands in existential crisis about ending his life. Nature and God have 'fixed their cannons 'gainst self-slaughter.'

You might like this...a study interviewed just under 100 survivors of suicide leaps. Every single one of them changed their minds on the way down. Iirc ~90% were still alive a decade later. It literally chills me to the bones that a lot of suicides have transpired with the person dying in the midst of heart-breaking remorse and a changed mind. Too late is too late. Studies like that strengthen resolve against 'self slaughter' too.

a reply to: Spider879

So sad. The poor woman just needs a bit of dopamine! There are plenty of chemical compounds that will fix her however most are scheduled and only used in research. Someone should try her on empathogens or strong opiods before giving her the option. Maybe some amphetamine added if that doesn't do the trick. Honestly what would society lose? Worst case it doesn't work and then you are back where you started no loss really.

a reply to: Wookiep

Nobody is encouraging her death. Stop acting like that is even remotely what is happening in this story. This is a last resort.

EVERYBODY is different. Can you not comprehend that? Someone's "depression" might be another person's idea of happiness.

The only people who say things like you, are people who have never experienced real depression.

I had kidney stones quite a bit growing up, which basically feels like you are being stabbed in the dick over and over and over again. If I could, I would choose to suffer from kidney stones over depression any day. At least with kidney stones you can take painkillers to ease the pain.

I feel very lucky to not be as depressed as I once was, but I know it could have very easily swung the other way and gotten worse over the years. If it had I doubt I would have made it this far in life.

Let her do it. She wanted it.

a reply to: Danke

The only people who say things like you, are people who have never experienced real depression.

Well, you're full of crap here. But thanks for telling me what my current and past life experiences are.

It's sad that you have to say BS things like that simply because you disagree with my opinions. It's not just sad but ignorant and stupid of you.

Depression can be successfully treated with anti depressants in many cases. not all.
Researchers in the UK and U.S. Have been testing psilocybin on people with terminal patients with end of life depression successfully

originally posted by: Spider879

Doctors in Belgium are granting a 24-year-old woman who is suffering from depression but is otherwise healthy the right to die as she qualifies for euthanasia under the Belgian law, even though she does not have a terminal or life-threatening illness.

The 24-year-old woman, known simply as Laura, has been given the go-ahead by health professionals in Belgium to receive a lethal injection after spending both her childhood and adult life suffering from "suicidal thoughts", she told local Belgian media.

Laura has been a patient of a psychiatric institution since the age of 21 and says she has previously tried to kill herself on several occasions. She told journalists: "Death feels to me not as a choice. If I had a choice, I would choose a bearable life, but I have done everything and that was unsuccessful." The date of Laura's death is yet to be decided.
europe.newsweek.com...

This is just crazy, while I completely understand someone in pain connected to imminent death with absolutely no hope, you don't get to kill yourself doctor's assistance or self inflicted, I have never been severely depressed to the point of ending it all so I am not really qualified to speak on it , but even if I did have that thought hopefully some one would give me a hard slap the back of the head and tell me to snap out of it. Belgium need to rethink this policy and walk it back a little.

If someone told me I could quit this awful painful human existance, I would jump at the chance. I have many countless reasons. As far as selfishness, the only selfishness I have seen is those who try to keep everyone alive forever. As populations grow and jobs are scarce the poor just keep growing. If you weren't poor ten years ago you may be in a short time. Death is not a horrible thing. I'm sorry to anyone who believes it is. If you want to live then go ahead, but don't drag me along with you. I feel all humans have a right to die , even if they are healthy. It was only outlawed by the church so they could make more money.

a reply to: Kandinsky

You might like this...a study interviewed just under 100 survivors of suicide leaps. Every single one of them changed their minds on the way down. Iirc ~90% were still alive a decade later.

Can you link to this , sounds like it could be very pertinent to this thread .

a reply to: hutch622

Maybe the majority of people who (supposedly) try to commit suicide are just actually crying for help, rather than actually trying to end there existence to this life.

Though, on a lighter note.......

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: Kandinsky

You might like this...a study interviewed just under 100 survivors of suicide leaps. Every single one of them changed their minds on the way down. Iirc ~90% were still alive a decade later.

Can you link to this , sounds like it could be very pertinent to this thread .

Just noticed your reply. I was out by a factor of ten (hadn't read it for a long while), but the paper remains very interesting and I find the more esoteric aspects intriguing and mildly disturbing.

Interviews with seven of ten known survivors of jumps from the Golden Gate and San Francisco-Oakland Bay bridges showed a unique association between the Golden Gate Bridge and suicide. The study went beyond exploring the nature of suicidal jumps and shed new light on the experience of nearly dying. All the survivors described this experience as tranquil and peaceful. None of them experienced life events or distant memories passing through their minds or before their eyes. However, all of them experienced transcendence and spiritual rebirth phenomena. Suggestions for preventing suicides from the Golden Gate Bridge are discussed, including the construction of a suicide barrier.

Dr David H Rosen; Suicide Survivors

Direct PDF download

Another paper that changed my outlook on the human condition is called 'Just a Smile and a Hello on the Golden Gate Bridge.' The pdf links appear to have gone. The bulk is rig ht over here and worth reading imho.

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

im with you.
a person should be able to check out whenever they want.
i dont see the problem.

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: seeker1963

You're not me and don't have the right to judge me. I couldn't care LESS if you agree or disagree with any of my posts, but YOU have no idea where I'VE been and where I am NOW.

Pot, meet the goddamn kettle. Right there in print, no one can judge YOU and your Depression experience, but YOU make it abundantly clear you're allowed to do so to others. I don't have Depression, but I have enough common sense to not look down on the mentally ill contemplating their end method. Neither you, nor I, have any right whatsoever to take away/block their freedom of choice from them.

I'll go as far as to call a hypocrite a hypocrite in this case. Worry about you. Only YOU. That's your focus & responsibility, not the decisions of others. If you don't want people telling you what to do or how to handle your Depression, I highly suggest you reciprocate & can the high & mighty BS right now.

You only know where YOU HAVE BEEN, and where YOU ARE NOW, no one else. And you have the gall to actually think you know better for this woman than she does? I'm sorry, I must have missed your gender reassignment surgery notice & cross-pond move

a reply to: Spider879

There should be a place in every hospital for euthenasia. 30-60 days should be given. During that time mediation, possibly depression medication, and other practices should be done. Meditation (eastern definition) being the most important. If the person still wants to die after 30-60 days then society should help them. We should respect the choice.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
Depression can be successfully treated with anti depressants in many cases. not all.
Researchers in the UK and U.S. Have been testing psilocybin on people with terminal patients with end of life depression successfully

Depression medicine should be the last resort. Meditation and even mind-helping drugs like mushrooms should be attempted for awhile first. I dont think there are chemical tests that can be done to determine if the brain needs a suppleawhilfirst. Personally, I think eating very healthy, exercising and finding a daily mediation practice that works can help most depression. I think only a small percent needaa chemical solution. Sadly, I doubt many will give a total lifestyle change a shot before taking a pill.