Healthy Woman Granted Right to Die For Depression

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Spider879

When you fight something year after year after year, and you can't see an end in sight, and it never gets better, you get very very tired. I've done that fight, and I definitely understand the feeling of wanting to end it all. Think of the worst day you've ever had. Now imagine having that same day, every day, for 10-15 years or longer. Eventually, you would stop seeing the point of getting up and doing the same thing over and over again.

I have a question. I totaly understand "your worst day" being repeated day after day. But what i dont understand is, is it the same thought repeated in your head? Like "I will never get that promition." Or the thought of maybe somthing like your dad dying?

I myself get "depressed" sometimes, but its maybe because I had a bad day. I just dont understand the thought process of one that is always having a down day. Like, "what wrong with you now? Why are you sad today? Who made you feel sad today? "

a reply to: galaga

It's more like.... say you were at work, and your boss said to you that need to do something simple, like speak up a little more when talking to a group. To a person not suffering depression, that would be "oh, ok, no problem." To a person with depression, it becomes, "Jesus I am so STUPID, I'm going to end up losing my job because I'm such an idiot." It's not the same thing over and over, but minor criticisms become major events. And even praise becomes something you could have done better.

Think of it as constantly running yourself down, and turning minor events into major events, and not being able to realize that you're doing it.

a reply to: Spider879

None of us have any right to tell someone else what to do...or what they cannot do. Unless of course, there are specific laws voted for, passed, and put on the books...even then...we have no right to tell someone how they feel, and what to do about it.

a reply to: Metallicus

Yeah, so I reread your post as you suggest

Actually, you need to reread my post.

And here is what you wrote

This is why I fight against anything European coming to the US

See the phrase "anything European"?
Hence my question to you

You fight to keep Europeans from coming to the US?

You see? I had read your post correctly.

You began your initial reply with the statement

The Europeans are insane.

So you began with a sweeping statement that Europeans are insane, then continue with a rant against 'anything European but then, when you are questioned about your statement, qualify or statment to allow for Europeans to come to the US

Would these be the INSANE Europeans you make generalized comments about. Are these the "IN'SANE" people you would allow to come to the US?

a reply to: Spider879

I know the feeling all to well.

Wish I could take her on a date

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: Zaphod58

There's no way that she had severe depression for 24 years, this didn't start when she came out of the womb. Maybe it started during childhood, so maybe it's been a decade or so, who knows. What I do know, is I'd rather cling to all hope for her as a person in society rather than support assisted suicide. That's my opinion. Anyone can commit suicide whenever they want.

Actually it's quite possible that some depression can start in the womb especially if the mother is depressed. Peer reviewed UK study- See here

The title "Healthy..." is meant as a distinction from someone who is healthy physical wise vs someone who is terminally ill. What it doesn't reflect that depression, such as this woman's depression is not healthy.

I can understand the fears that if such a thing becomes a norm medically, than it can be used for that and more, as a similar topic with Oregon's Death with Dignity Act(which I do support) for terminally ill people when many thought it would cross over into being pushed as an option for the elderly to the disabled.

But on the other side of the fence, wouldn't a chemical option guided by health care professionals be better than a failed suicide?

With being on the fence about the death penalty;
I don't believe it's fair, such in the case of the GreenRiver killer, that he is living- albeit behind bars, due to outlawing the death penalty in Washington State. But with also believing it's not fair that innocent people(been in the news lately) have actually been put to death and or slated to be.

Nonetheless, depression effects each person differently. It's hard to understand if one hasn't been there, and especially has not been in her shoes.

What wright do you have to Make
some one live a life they absolutely hate?
why does it make you so angry?
do we NOT live in a free country?
Pain is Pain.

What a cryin’ shame that an otherwise healthy, vital young person should be exiled to the wasteland of chronic depression. She’s at the stage of life now when she should be dreaming of all the things life can offer, excited about going to all the places she’s only imagined, and eager to meet new and interesting people. Instead, I imagine for her those dreams are mostly nightmares; and she’s jaded by a life filled with disappointment and despair, low self-esteem and personal failure, so I doubt she has any interest in seeing new places and meeting new people.

Since most of us never experience long-term, chronic depression I don’t think it’s taken as seriously as most other conditions. Occasional depression is quite normal, and easily/naturally overcome. And so, most people relate to those episodes whenever the word “depression” comes up. Consequently, many folks are misguided in the notion that “depression” is no big deal, and all one needs to do is, “Pull yourself up by the bootstraps”, or just “Manup, and get off the pitypot”.

What we’re talking about here, though, is not like normal bouts with “depression”. What the person in the OP suffers from is anything but normal. She’s stricken with a certifible, long-term “Depression”. And there’s no comparison between that and the normal depression most people occassionally experience. Certifiable Depression is a debilitating condition. It not only overwhelms the person’s mental state, it also renders them physically incapable of functioning normally. Each state, mental and physical, feed off each other in a spiral downward into the depths of Hell. When you feel miserable mentally it causes you to be drained physically. As your physical state deteriorates, so goes your mental state along with it. Around and around it goes. This is often accompanied by frightening panic (anxiety) attacks, as well.

If the girl/woman in the OP endures this constantly, then it’s understandable she would just as soon end it. If there’s no quality in life, and it appears hopeless there will ever be, then ending it may seem a rational option. It’s easy for others to offer their opinions, but they really don’t know what it’s like unless they’ve been there. So, her decision is understandable. A pity, but understandable.

The fact is, if she wants to end it bad enough, then she will commit suicide regardless of whether or not the state sanctions it. Whether or not the state assists her in this endevour, however, is another question. I can understand the state assisting terminal patients in dying with as little pain as possible. That, to me, is the Humane thing to do. For cryin’ out loud, we shoot other animals to put them out of their misery when death is inevitable. Why should we make our own kind suffer through it? Her case, though, I’m not so sure about. She’s still very young, and a lot of breakthroughs have been taking place in the medical/pharma industries in the past couple years.

Personally, for as long as I can remember I’ve been of the belief that mental states are the result (for the most part) of brain chemistry. As we learn more about it, I believe many conditions like schitzophrenia, bipolar, depression, psychosis, etc. will become treatable via drugs. And from things I’ve read, in many areas a lot of progress is being made as of late. It would be a shame if this person ended her life, and a cure comes out in the next year or 2. Therefore, I have a feeling there must be underlying factors we’re not aware of that the state is considering in their decision. Just guessing, though.

Whatever the case, I feel for this person. It helps me realize that others have it much worse than myself...

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: violet
You really have never been happy? I am a pretty miserable dude, but there were definately some happy moments. Moments that I would not ever trade for the world. Moments that were worth the years of pain. Meeting my niece for the first time, even #ty things like carrying grandma's casket and lowering it. My pain is not only mental, but physical, migraines and insomnia, phantom pains, and also weird # like visual snow that no one can explain. And my story is nothing compared to others that are probably happier than I.

I don't really like country, but this song has always touched me.

To expand on what I meant to say, the main difference between a happy person, and a depressed person is perception. On average of course. A depressed person, me included, dwells on and gives extra weight to the bad times, while brushing off the good times as flukes. Happy people do the exact opposite. And in my experience, happy people seem to have more to be unhappy about if they chose to think of it that way.

i have Physical pain as well. Paralyzed , in wheelchair, but I was depressed before this happened. I just went through a divorce as well and that's not helped much.

Last year I felt elated for a few short days, then something happened to bring me down, but no, I never really have experienced happiness. I laugh every day since I'm easily entertained, but to feel blissfully happy is foreign to me. There's a few good moments but I'm not really that enthused by them, like others might be.

I think Iive been permanently damaged from years of trauma and abuse. I don't think that can be repaired.

I tried needs but they made me feel suicidal. I've never been diagnosed with a mental illness. I use Ativan (lorazepam) to sleep. It calms me down and let's me drift off easier. Just can't use that stuff too much as it's addicting and you start needing more. I try to limit my intake and take some if I know I will be around triggers.

This snow you see. I've had that looks like snow in the headlights at night, it's from a head injury, my retina was torn. There's visual issues that can cause this. Might want to get your eyes checked, or it's an occular migraine. Painless but has weird visual disturbances.

a reply to: Spider879


Have you ever had a nervous breakdown? Sounds like you do not understand how powerful depression can be. Now in your own words "I have never been severely depressed to the point of ending it all so I am not really qualified to speak on it ". If she is at that point she will end her life one way or another any way. It may be a sick thing to say but at least this way it will be clean.

Zaphod has explained it really well. This kind of depression is like carrying tons of bricks in your shoulders every day. In the morning you struggle to get out of bed with the weight of those bricks. They can be memories of things in the distant past, stress of yesterday, harsh words, etc. it takes you ages to get out of bed with that ton of bricks on you. Finally you steady yourself enough to get out the door, then the boss yells at you and adds another brick, coworkers are talking behind your back and adds a few more bricks, on the way home the car breaks down and that's another 100 bricks... The weight just keeps piling on until it is crushing your very spirit.

In a normal healthy state one can unload most of those bricks on a daily basis. In a depressed state no matter how hard you struggle they just keep stacking up and you start not caring if you die under the weight of them. You find yourself in a no win situation and then thoughts of dragging others down with you prevents you from even considering sharing the burden. Never mind the looks from those who think you should just suck it up. A normal brain can suck it up. In a depressed state it is incapable of doing so. Nobody would choose to be this way on purpose. It's misery and the stigma that still comes with it is almost as bad as the disease itself.

Depression is ones own personal hell that is stuck on repeat. You can't escape it and those times that you do you are constantly thinking about it slapping you in the face around the next corner once again. So even when the feelings ease, you are still left with the knowledge and dread of knowing that it will return again and the fight will continue on.

Some people get too tired to fight. I can understand that. I do think it is selfish (to others) to commit suicide but do understand perfectly why people choose to do so and they get no harsh judgement from me for it. It's sad, but so is forcing someone to live in a hell they spend decades constantly trying to escape.

a reply to: violet
I am sorry to hear that

I had my whole upper body scanned with a few different machines, nothing was found. I do need glasses to see detail far away, like I can see a person walking down the road far away, but can't make out their face. Can see a sign, but can't read the words.

The migraine thing might be spot on though, as I do get the regular painful migraines, thankfully not as much as I did when I was a kid. Got a few a week up until about puberty, I also started smoking pot at the same time, so not sure if it was the hormone change, or the pot, or maybe even a combination that helped. I haven't smoked in a long time now, and they didn't return in frequency, so I think it was probably puberty.

The snow is really bad at night with oncoming traffic, and if I am trying to watch the sky for meteorites in the summer, my favorite pasttime, it looks like a blizzard coming down at me. It just looks like the cable is going wonky in my head if that makes sense lol. Not sure if you are old enough to have owned a TV with rabbit ears that had a bad reception, that is kinda what my world looks like, except the snow is multicoloured, not just black and white.

Survivors often regret their decision in midair, if not before. Ken Baldwin and Kevin Hines both say they hurdled over the railing, afraid that if they stood on the chord they might lose their courage. Baldwin was twenty-eight and severely depressed on the August day in 1985 when he told his wife not to expect him home till late. “I wanted to disappear,” he said. “So the Golden Gate was the spot. I’d heard that the water just sweeps you under.” On the bridge, Baldwin counted to ten and stayed frozen. He counted to ten again, then vaulted over. “I still see my hands coming off the railing,” he said. As he crossed the chord in flight, Baldwin recalls, “I instantly realized that everything in my life that I’d thought was unfixable was totally fixable—except for having just jumped.”

link

I think it's difficult to make important decisions when suffering with chronic depression, however, I don't know or have the answers and I certainly am in no position to judge.

a reply to: RobinB022
There were two times in my life when I was sure I didn't want to exist anymore. One time I was saved by a girl, the other time, I was saved because I didn't remember to take the metal cable off the back wheel of my motorcycle. Divine intervention or blind luck both times. Either way I am thankful for it.

a reply to: TKDRL
Divine intervention-I like that.

I understand depression, but not chronic depression-I'm fortunate in that I've always been able to climb out of the dark. In fact, the times I've felt depressed it's always scared me to feel so dark, afraid, and alone. Scared me enough to try anything I could to dig myself from underneath. I think the difference between depression, the blues, or sadness; and chronic depression, is that a person can't climb from the chronic type alone, they would need assistance.

Every time I go to the Dr. they ask me if I'm depressed. They ask because I suffer from chronic pain, and depression often goes hand in hand when living with chronic pain. You wake up in pain every day and you take it to bed with you. Some days are worse than others, but the fact remains that you know when you go to bed that you are going to wake up in pain.

I hope there is a cure for chronic depression someday soon for those who suffer with the illness.
Even with my lifetime of experience I have no answers when it comes to this issue.

a reply to: RobinB022
I don't really like giving out too much personal info, but when I think it may help others, I go ahead. My two hit rock bottom, want to stop existing times, were related. The first time, I had decided enough was enough, sick of hating myself, I was gonna drink as much as possible, then drive my truck as fast as I could into the woods. You pull out of my driveway, there is a huge straight away, hit that gas and could hit over 100 when you came to the first corner. That was the plan. One of my sister's friends stopped me that night, I thought she was an angel. Turns out she was just using me for sex, her boyfriend was too far away. I found that out and felt way worse, decided to try again, but instead of my truck, with my motorcycle. Drunk again, crash and burn. Could get up to 140 at least, and no helmet, guaranteed to croak. Got the cable all tangled up in my back wheel. couldn't get it out, so gave up and went to bed. I could have just blown my brains out, but didn't want to burden my family with that mess.

Maybe it was meant to be, maybe one day I will do great things. I mean, now, I do good things, I make plenty of people happy with my flooring work. Who knows, maybe one day I will save some lives or something, and I will not always feel like I am just wasting time.

originally posted by: galaga

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Spider879

When you fight something year after year after year, and you can't see an end in sight, and it never gets better, you get very very tired. I've done that fight, and I definitely understand the feeling of wanting to end it all. Think of the worst day you've ever had. Now imagine having that same day, every day, for 10-15 years or longer. Eventually, you would stop seeing the point of getting up and doing the same thing over and over again.

I have a question. I totaly understand "your worst day" being repeated day after day. But what i dont understand is, is it the same thought repeated in your head? Like "I will never get that promition." Or the thought of maybe somthing like your dad dying?

I myself get "depressed" sometimes, but its maybe because I had a bad day. I just dont understand the thought process of one that is always having a down day. Like, "what wrong with you now? Why are you sad today? Who made you feel sad today? "

It's not a thought process though, imo. You could be as positive as you like, but its not going help to make anything enjoyabe, or stop you from constantly being debilitatingly exhausted. Then you got a constant deep feeling of guilt in your gut, even though you have nothing to be guilty about and also the feeling of impending doom, even though you know nothings going to happen.

It really is just brain chemistry being out of sync, rather than your frame of mind or perspective of life.

Unfortunately (imo), anything that can help to balance out brain chemistry is condemned by society. Big pharma are laughing, because there making a killing by selling poisonous placebo's. I suppose there motive is to sell pills, not cure mental illnesses, theirs no money to be made from cure's.

a reply to: TKDRL

Maybe it was meant to be, maybe one day I will do great things. I mean, now, I do good things, I make plenty of people happy with my flooring work. Who knows, maybe one day I will save some lives or something, and I will not always feel like I am just wasting time.

I feel sure it was meant to be, and you've likely already done great things and just aren't even aware of them. Sometimes a few words can make a big difference.

a reply to: RobinB022
I alway try to make my words count, and try to be the best I can be. I try to see the best in everyone, and point out the good that people have and will do. I love everyone, and will always try to be that way. I have defended people against witch hunts, I think that is my best work so far. Not right to hang people for actions they may commit, when they have harmed no one in their lifetime.