Fast food is an easy job everyone can do...

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
And they're right. It works. It works beautifully. The problem is it's trickling down into the hands of people who manufacture their crap overseas, the people who answer their phones overseas, the people who ship their crap FROM overseas to the US shores. Trickle down works in a closed economy. But we're in a World Economy now, and it's trickling down to the wrong people.

You could actually say it works perfectly - it's trickling down to the lowest-wage workers. The only reason that isn't US workers is because they've been priced out of the market...

a reply to: EvillerBob
the problem is that the better paying jobs are getting to be fewer and far between while more jobs are being consider to be not worthy of a manageable wage. at some point the economy isn't gonna be able to function (probably is already at this point) because too many will be only earning enough to keep themselves alive another day and spending less and less while our economy demands that we buy more and more to keep them employed! and the gov't cannot keep increasing the benefit programs to make up the slack.

Let me make my position clear, then I'll walk off this thread. People are funding the very institution they complain about. It's retarded. You are free to take on positions elsewhere. If you don't have skills, acquire them. If you have skills, but the positions aren't around, create them, or move.

If you want to talk about systemic corruption or obsolete paradigms, that's entirely different. As is, you have a segment of the population that essentially feeds their own, and contributes nothing else. If we're okay with this, fine, but we need to collectively agree on how to go about this. I think technology is near the point that we can be afforded the desire to work and contribute if we please, else have basic needs met for us.

The system we currently have doesn't allow this. If you don't think that's fair, and you're in the minority, then you lose, and are a fool for not taking advantage of the current system in place. If you don't think it's fair, and have a majority opinion on the matter, then we can collectively choose to enter a new paradigm. That's not yet here, so make best with what exists, quit complaining, and quit supporting that which you believe you don't stand for. Don't stand for it. If you can't think your way out of your current position, then all the complaining does is waste other people's energies on someone who is a loser in the current system.

I happen to be in the camp who thinks we're fastly approaching a point where we can take on less hours without compromising standards of living. The economic theory will not hold true as we continue on our technological progress and increased productivity. That doesn't mean I'm going to waste my time complaining about the current system, instead of gaming it. When the opportunity arises to take a stand for a better way forward, I will support what makes most sense. Until then, I will continue to bust my ass working multiple jobs that require some skills and pays out decently.

originally posted by: pl3bscheese
a reply to: angeldoll

The economy should be independent of your motivation and attitude. Which economy? There's plenty of well paying jobs out there, yet people aren't qualified to fill the positions. If your local economy sucks, move.

That's a load of crap.

a reply to: dawnstar

The way we're heading even better paying jobs won't be enough to keep up with the cost of living.

With real estate costs through the roof people will have to start moving to less desirable areas surrounding big cities. Workers will be forced to live/commute in crime riddled areas if they want higher city wages.

We saw the same thing happen in Gary, IN. Cost of living in the safer suburbs was becoming unaffordable for many. With layoffs we were going to have to move to the Gary ghetto or hick town Colorado. We chose CO.

a reply to: Puppylove

You don't get paid more for doing harder work. You get paid more for doing skilled work. And skills come in all shapes/sizes. Do you speak Spanish? That's a skill. Do you have a clean driving record? Another skill. Can you pass a drug test? Yup...another "skill" worth paying for.

Its all about what you bring to he table. BUt if you are doing work that the average 15 year old can handle...no matter how physically difficult the work is, its not as valuable as something that requires a little skill and trustworthiness.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: EvillerBob
the problem is that the better paying jobs are getting to be fewer and far between while more jobs are being consider to be not worthy of a manageable wage. at some point the economy isn't gonna be able to function (probably is already at this point) because too many will be only earning enough to keep themselves alive another day and spending less and less while our economy demands that we buy more and more to keep them employed! and the gov't cannot keep increasing the benefit programs to make up the slack.

Excellent point. Why is that? Why do the jobs seems to be dropping away?

That's a far more productive line of enquiry. It might not lead to some comfortable answers though.

I have worked in the catering industry as a manager in my 20's, none were fast food, but one was pizza and pasta based though still a restaurant, similar to Pizza express and most of catering is similar, long hours, lots of rushing around, standing, overheating, fast paced for pay that isn't great.

As for skill, there are those that can and those that can't, so even for basic 'unskilled' positions there are those more able. For example, I wouldn't put certain people on 'back up' if they weren't fast enough or couldn't portion properly, or hatch if they weren't clever or fast enough, on wash up if they were slow or clumsy, on the floor serving if they weren't keeping to the rules. Those that were good at their jobs could progress to supervisor level if they did the training, which meant a salary and a range of experience, something worth adding to their CV.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Its all about what you bring to he table. BUt if you are doing work that the average 15 year old can handle...no matter how physically difficult the work is, its not as valuable as something that requires a little skill and trustworthiness.

I would qualify this a little bit. The man who can dig 50m of ditch, day in day out, is worth more than the guy who digs 10m then spends the rest of the day recovering. If your company does nothing but dig ditches from A to B, you want the first guy, no matter how skilful or trustworthy the second guy is.

While I agree in general with your statement, there are times when any attribute becomes a skill worth paying for. The trick is to find the work that needs that attribute. Skill and trustworthiness apply nearly everywhere, but sometimes you just need the guy who can dig a ditch on time and on target.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

And that's something I think is wrong with the way our economy works.

I think people should be treated better by society at large, and that things like stress level, effort, ect, are treated as non factors when determining a jobs worth to what a person is paid by society is wrong and sick. It's a sign of a failed system.

People can be going to work at jobs that cause stress on the body thus requiring more need for insurance and hospital/doctor time, yet get paid less and have worse insurance than those that don't do jobs that stress the body like that.

Which is absurd as these are problems they need help with due to the jobs themselves. We let soulless corporations determine what we're worth, regardless of the effort or stress required on our parts, and we insult anyone who does the worse jobs and belittle them, while in the next breath demanding their service.

If a person actually works, and works hard, they deserve a life, they are doing their part in society, and that people keep defending a small minority of people living better the most powerful emperors of the past while hardworking people struggle everywhere is disgusting.

Honestly I wouldn't care if it WAS an easy low skill job, they're there, they're not at home sitting on their ass, they're contributing, and any contributing member of society deserves to live comfortably in the society they are contributing to, period, end of story.

We need stop making excuses for our societies clear and obvious failings. It's so obvious something is wrong and broken with both how things are and how they are going.

a reply to: Puppylove

You said it all. Wish I could give you more stars.

Some don't get it until, through no fault of their own, they find their life has taken a change for the worse. If they never saw it coming, it can be an especially rude awakening.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: crazyewok

Again, it's a chicken and egg question. I had a client once who came into my office with a twinkle in her eye, she was so incredibly happy because she had gotten a job "that pays for health insurance" yay, yay, she was dancing all over my office.

Do you think she's going to do better work to protect that job?

You better believe it.

Maybe that why I get paid $60,000 a year at 27 and only spent 10 months in fast food compared to others my age still in Mcjobs?

Cause I had work ethic! I did my job as best as possible! Hell I was promoted to supervisor after only 3 months and earned 20% above minimum wage plus bonus...........mmmmmmmmmmmm

Maybe actually DOING the job your paid to do and WELL pays off?

With technology we produce more with less resources.

HAVING to have a job in order to cover basics is going the way of the dodo bird people.

That time ended in the 1930's. Was even spoken about then.

You are just hard to learn.

originally posted by: Puppylove
Which is absurd as these are problems they need help with due to the jobs themselves. We let soulless corporations determine what we're worth, regardless of the effort or stress required on our parts, and we insult anyone who does the worse jobs and belittle them, while in the next breath demanding their service.

Oh no no no, nooooooooooooo no no. You as a consumer determine how much that worker is worth.

The value of a worker is linked to the amount that you're willing to pay for the product.

If you want McDonalds to pay their staff more, offer to pay them $100 for each Big Mac that looks as good as the one in the menu picture.

a reply to: EvillerBob

I would happy pay a extra 50p per Big mac meal if they just got the GD order right!

a reply to: EvillerBob

That's total bs if we cut out Wall Street those employees could easily make way more money.

I believe anybody is intelligent enough to be successful if they put all of their energy into something and with the internet opening up commerce in the way that it has; it's insane how much money is out there if you take the risk and go after it.

If there aren't many opportunities where you are then create your own job and work your arse off, the only people I've met who failed at self employment either couldn't honestly say they put everything into it or they gave up.

Once you've done that; the prospect of being told what to do by anybody ever again becomes a distant memory, I'll never ever go back to it. Your time is valuable, your brain is even more valuable, don't sell yourself short for anyone.

a reply to: Puppylove

Something to consider: no one forces anyone to play within the system. There are lots of folks who live in the bush, and find a happy life there.

No one owes any of us anything. And phrases like "soulless corporations" are just as bad a generalization as any other form of broad brush statement. I happen to work for a corporation (LLC) that would never be called "soulless". Yes, some corporations are bad, some exploit humanity. Yet humanity keeps going back to them and giving them money. Wal Mart = prime example. Funny thing about that, though: its the poor who complain the most about Wal Mart, and its the poor who spend the most with Wal Mart.

At some point folks have to just simply be smarter than they are. Quit feeding the beast you complain about.

I need to take special exception with this:

If a person actually works, and works hard, they deserve a life, they are doing their part in society, and that people keep defending a small minority of people living better the most powerful emperors of the past while hardworking people struggle everywhere is disgusting.

Honestly I wouldn't care if it WAS an easy low skill job, they're there, they're not at home sitting on their ass, they're contributing, and any contributing member of society deserves to live comfortably in the society they are contributing to, period, end of story.

That is just not how the world works. I know our schools created the illusion of a "participants" culture. But its not a participants culture, its a winners culture. Once you leave school, the green ribbons aren't handed out any more. The fact that someone is contributing matters nil. Its what they are contributing that matters.

If not, then you end up with everyone bringing paper plates to the potluck. And that may work fine for 3rd grade. But in the real world....it just doesn't work.

I don't make a lot of money, but i am far better paid than a minimum wage level. Know why? Because if i walked away from this place today it would cripple this business. Absolutely cripple it. I have skills that i spent 15 years developing, skills that you just don't find in anyone off the street. Matter of fact, no matter how hard i look I just can't find anyone else with my skills in this region to act as my assistant. So i do all the work by myself. It isn't a participants world, and I was smart enough to play the system that was in place, not the one that i wished was in place.

originally posted by: onequestion
With technology we produce more with less resources.

HAVING to have a job in order to cover basics is going the way of the dodo bird people.

That time ended in the 1930's. Was even spoken about then.

You are just hard to learn.

THIS

The idea of "having a job" and all the other stuff....that is just humanity drinking the Kool Aid.

You don't have to have a job. You just need to make sure you have the items in Mazlow's Hierarchy under control. Feed yourself, have shelter, etc. Its called many things. "Living outside society", "moving to the bush", etc, etc. And anyone who feels undervalued in the labor force has that available to them as a potential future. Become feral and live like humans are meant to.

Or not. But if you are going to want to live within society, the only smart thing to do is play the system to win.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: EvillerBob

I would happy pay a extra 50p per Big mac meal if they just got the GD order right!

Exactly. If the consumer demands better quality and is prepared to pay more for it, then the ability to provide that quality becomes a skill worth paying more to obtain and retain. In other words, better pay to attract and keep a better quality of employee.