parrallel // alternate universes / multiverse theory [ my opinion ]

we hear a lot of opinion and speculation on parrallel universes // alternate realities and multiverses here on ATS . and to be rude its my opinio that most of what is written is utter bollox

1 - " time splits " - a common notion is that time ` splits ` // can be split and diverge from a single point - it sounds cool - but what few acknowledge is that you have just created a whole new universe // dimension ` ex-nihlio ` - while you may wish to congratulate yourself on your god like powers .

i ask - where did the matter // energy come from ?

2 - is there another " me " out there ? a common trope while popular - is it plausible ? the answer is of course [ my opinon ] no

my simple analogy to refute the ` multiple me ` argument is :

take one scrabble set - create 2 sets of A~v [ 23 tiles ] - and place each set in seperate bowls - now blindly plate the context of each bowl in a seperate line

did you get the same order of letters ????

but thats exactly what you are expecting to happen in 2 seperate alternities to ` create ` 2 identical " yous " - and thats a simplified version


3 - random stains - yup - thats a sleight at another thread but the notion that alternate realities are identical except for small niggling abberations is [ my opinion ] absurd :

look at it rationally - the hypothesis demands that 2 alternities exist with 2 families [ otherwise identical - except for a variation in thier surname ] who collectivly write a series of identical books

yup - thats the crux of the " argument " - because on one has yet claimed that the books are different - just the authors name

go figure

i shal stop at 3 points - to keep the discussion tighter

but thats my argument against multiverses sharing traits

i am not against the idea of multiverese- but i believe that they would be utterly alien in almost every way

The last line sums it up. I dont know of a model that states there would be 2 or more identical yous.The idea is in an infinite multiverse with infinite universes there could be multiple people like you , but they would all by necessity have followed entirely different timelines , with entirely different circumstances.

On point 2, if you have an infinite number of scrabble sets and lay all the letters out on each set, the result will be an infinite number of sets that will arrange the same way and also an infinite number that do not.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

There's probably some1 that looks exactly like you right here on earth living an alternate reality

a reply to: ignorant_ape

But keep in mind phenomena that has been tested and proven, such as quantum entaglements:

Quantum entanglement is a physical phenomenon that occurs when pairs or groups of particles are generated or interact in ways such that the quantum state of each particle cannot be described independently—instead, a quantum state may be given for the system as a whole.
Quantum entanglement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org...

In other words, it's like cutting a quarter down the middle perfectly, so as you have two coins, that do in fact have heads on one side and tails on the other, but on closer examination (almost like matching a fired bullet to its casing under a microscope), you find the grooves and imperfections of where the coin was minted is unique, but identical. The same coin, just split. That is something that very recent quantum physicist have found in the case of quantum entanglements, and the particles though appearing to exist in separate spaces, independent of one another, cannot function independently. They are the same.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

An alternate reality would not be alternate if it was identical. It is bollucks.

I have only read your post so far,
I would like to say that perhaps if people are (categorically) given the freedom to discuss the experiences and information they personally receive (which is how I view extraordinary occurrences and communication techniques,and I have had many personally), much could be cleared up on many subjects, to improve the functioning of already established forms of herding/controlling/influencing/governing, population for growth, peace and evolution purposes.

Instead, 'civilised' societies want to quantify/control 'education' and 'learning', limit it, and package it nice and neatly, so as it resembles something which can be 'capitalised on' or used by the 'better connected', 'bigger companies' to further just themselves, and theirs. True creative vampires.

I don't want this to be my attitude on 'new' information being shared with myself or humanity in general, but personal experience so far warrants it.
We have come a long way from throwing the computer off the balcony and loving indiscriminately, even 'elsewhere'.
I'm sorry if this misses the point you were making.

It is my first post back after an unexplained cut off many many moons ago.

Their next move, determines mine.

So in response to 1. OP
If it is not a time split or some sort of 'time share', explain how I could swim with something that essentially has not been alive for 300 million years (by modern dated science [- for what that's worth])?
It was an intelligent encounter, was almost like I had to ask for permission to enter their water and swim, which they gave and I did. It was here, on Earth. Earth time.

2. My mum would be eternally grateful if there was only one of me, I'm sure ... thankfully for her, there is ... only one.
It doesn't mean other 'colours' haven't shared their 'moments' with me, from the relative safety of 'elsewhere'.
If they allow it, I/we can share space and visit their 'living' space with them, and we both retain an awareness of the encounter, obviously this has a purpose, even if to begin with it is unclear.
I have found that it always manifests to something in real life around where you are now. This is personally proven.

Only people who function without thought for others, would disregard this information as irrelevant, meaning 'other' encounters.

Those that I visited are alive, living (although I know for a fact some are not in our terms, alive.), but they are in different moments themselves, of life.
Who am I to say whether they are alive or dead, useful or useless, or completely disregard their contact as nothing.

They showed what they wanted me to see, (since it is me doing the 'looking'/hunting and remembering) and I continue with my life, but with the memory of the added 'visit' of them, this can not be removed from experience.

3.

look at it rationally - the hypothesis demands that 2 alternatives exist with 2 families [ otherwise identical - except for a variation in their surname ] who collectively write a series of identical books

yup - that's the crux of the " argument " - because on one has yet claimed that the books are different - just the authors name

I do not know of the books you refer to although I have had a similar experience with some of my writing, myself.
I wrote a part of a story line ( seen as automatic writing, in hindsight), it ended up in a movie already.

An unknown just goes back to the 'creative writing board' and starts all over, manually instead, this time ... handwriting for those not aware.

Was it the same story line because we shared a connection to the 'universal', the 'akasha', the 'universal mind', 'solar intelligence', or was it because our internet Down Under has NEVER been secure? Not from day one?

i am not against the idea of multiverese- but i believe that they would be utterly alien in almost every way

That's how it feels ... perhaps the 'multi verse' stores all those new personal 'updates' that were never utilised because of non belief and confined thinking indoctrinated by the times and personal situation, was the reason it was ignored in the first place as something else.
Humanity disables itself, I know not why. It's disheartening.

This is the first of my mandatory five posts before a thread ...

Thank you for listening

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Theoretically, from the point of the observer they would be alternate, based on their location in the universe not being the same, even though they may have identical properties. Alternate universes is a topic of theoretical thinking, so to even discuss you'd have to keep in mind quantum dynamics and a way to measure it's validity or possibility. Quantum physics gives us the "observer". It's the only way to even consider whether it's possible or not.

None of us can technically "perceive" ourselves. We need the aid of an outside way of measuring or, well, observing. If I am in this life, and I either want to prove or disapprove that there is an alternate "me" in any realm in any place in space time, I'd need an outside observer, or some means of equipment to document the occurrence/date. It's all theory, but....deductive reasoning would say if someone could make witness to one me, then the other, and DNA testing or some other testing prove down to our core we are literally the same person, even looking exactly the same on the outside, the only difference would be our location. Even if we stood side by side, it'd be a difference in where we stood (I in my spot, and the "other me" next to me).

Its...plausible, if not possible, just by using standard constants of our three dimensional world dimensions: width, height, and depth.

a reply to: JustTamms

Location is a property of identity. In order for something to be identical it must be similiar in every way, including its position. If it is not in an identical location, it is not identical.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

But in quantum physics and molecular science they say all particles, atoms, and molecules are always motion. Granted a cluster of particles or molecules gives us the perception something has a location because they appear to be static. But if one singular particle can be measured to move as fast as a picosecond or faster, it almost seems illogical to outright assume it could not possibly be in two places at "one time" at that speed, and still be identical. By what we consider still or moving,

Are we talking about science, or the words used to describe an idea? By definition if two things are "identical" they're the same. Even a webster dictionary will give you that definition. But according to science, even what some consider pseudoscience, nothing is "constant", and we're unfortunately limited by our own finite human mind's ability to perceive ourselves and our place in the universe. I could never just outright accept my mind must be right about placement of any thing that makes up our existence, because I'm limited by a system to keep time based on the rotation of the rock I live on, in an infinite universe that is governed by no time (or many times, dependent on your place in it), and has proven time and time again, we can't calculate most things by just our terrestrial scientific laws, and definitely not our own flawed awareness. Even in me typing this, I am aware my own perception of what is or isn't is unique and singular, because I am witnessing from inside my own mind. And that alone could make me wrong.

My only point, is alternate universes could be possible, because nothing has proven it to be impossible...yet.

The multiverse theory proposes that there is an ifinate number of universes where every possible route is taken.

You are correct in your assumption that some of the universes would be utterly alien but a far greater number would be so similar as to be from your own point of view identical.

For example there take 2 universes, in one of them I write this reply and then take a drink of my coffee. In another universe I scratch my nose and then take a sip of my coffee.

From your point of view both realites are exactly the same.

Now apply that to every single action happening right now and everything that has already happened.

I was looking into this myself a few weeks ago and found this article that raises some interesting points that should be relavant to the thread.

LINK

a reply to: nonspecific
I want to relocate to that one universe where I am Imperial Leader of the Universe and all that entitles.
Did I just create one ?

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: nonspecific
I want to relocate to that one universe where I am Imperial Leader of the Universe and all that entitles.
Did I just create one ?

No need to create one it already exists, unfortunatley according to the theory the less likley something is to happen the less universes there are with that timeline.

Also if you moved there then the you that is already there and supreme leader of the universe would more than likely see you as a threat and have you killed.

You are much safer in the mundane one you currently inhabit.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: nonspecific
I want to relocate to that one universe where I am Imperial Leader of the Universe and all that entitles.
Did I just create one ?

No need to create one it already exists, unfortunatley according to the theory the less likley something is to happen the less universes there are with that timeline.

Also if you moved there then the you that is already there and supreme leader of the universe would more than likely see you as a threat and have you killed.

You are much safer in the mundane one you currently inhabit.

Just an example of Quantum Mechanics using certain models...This I already knew.
However , if I could traverse universes in the multiverse it would mean that I had the "power" to utilize time as well. SO , I could go back in time in that universe , do away with my grandfather in that universe . This would split off another universe where the current me would replace the other me and I could stay there happily .

Too much thinking , brain overload , instant headache.

a reply to: Gothmog

All joking aside I have been pondering the possibilities of switching universes for a long time now.

I think it's possible to bump the other guy out of the physical body as it were but only in a universe that is similar but subtly different.

a reply to: JustTamms

We're discussing philosophy in an empirically responsible way.

I personally do not like to use quantum mechanical analogies when discussing objects. This might be a bold statement, but discussing a particle tells us nothing about the object it came from. We can replicate every particle from you body, put them in a pile beside you, and then compare likenesses. I doubt there would be any similarity, let alone identical. I think quantum mechanics tells us more about our instruments and methodology than it does about the universe.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Ya know, I never thought about it quite that way! So, in a lot of ways, it still goes back to perception.

a reply to: Jinn82

also an infinite number that do not.

That is not knowable, by its very definition

If reality supposed to be a simulation, and alternate realities are just different results of how the simulation played out, while supposedly still going on at the same time, then the real question, is, how accessible are these alternate realities. If our universe, or reality is that unfathomable in size, then how could one simply just jump to one to the other. I don't think FTL travel would be able to cut it since you'll always end up back in the same universe, although at a different, usually later time.

There could easily be other planets like Earth, with similar characteristics, but would life still play out the same for the generations. Would Jill ever met jack up the hill Jack and forgot the pill that one night an had a son?

The only way I could see alternate realities being possible, IMO, which ain't much at all...Is time travel, back to the past...Because someone screwed up...Since screwing around would cause different realities.[

a reply to: JustTamms

one question :

does quantum entaglement scale up to macro bodies ?