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An Interesting Point On The Traditional Family Unit

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posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 10:06 AM
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So I was reading today about the fall of the Roman Empire, and there are many reasons why it fell that are well documented, but given the recent ruling in America this kind just jumped out at me.


~1-2 century AD: The family unit is destroyed. Men refuse to marry and the government tries to revive marriage with a “bachelor tax”, to no avail. Children are growing up without fathers, Roman women show little interest in raising their own children and frequently use nannies. The wealth and power of women grows very fast, while men become increasingly demotivated and engage in prostitution and vice. Prostitution and homosexuality become widespread.


Interesting, basically the traditional family unit being destroyed is viewed as one of the contributing factors to the demise of a great empire. Some may think I am targeting homosexuality but that is only a small part of the issue, the traditional family unit is being ripped apart today by many variables, and many that are listed in the quote are relevant in 2015.

God knew the family unit would be important for a stable society, the mosaic law really speaks to that. And later in the new testament it says "God hates a divorcing".
edit on 2-7-2015 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Do you have a link to your quote and something to back up this assertion that feminism and female ambivalence led to the fall of Rome.


+1 more 
posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33
The problem is that your source(for which there is no link) is a highly subjective view. "Traditional" to whom? Romans. Traditional to other cultures would be entirely different. Also note that prostitution and homosexuality were accepted as part of Roman society long before the fall of Rome. I also notice that women being wealthy and powerful is mentioned like it's a bad thing, and partly to blame.

The argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny.



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 10:28 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

It is not about feminism and quote posted was from antifeminist forum post originally.
At the time in Rome, what was going on was WARS as Augustus who was a emperor of Rome at the time, in his 40 years of ruling, he doubled the size of the Empire. What guys do when they get back from wars? They party and ill behave.

edit on 2-7-2015 by dollukka because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: windword

Interesting that you picked up on the femisnsim aspect, mentioned. But men becoming de-motivated is equaling troubling. Men playing video games, instead of doing other productive things is just one example.
There are many complex variables contributing to the total situation.



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 10:37 AM
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originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Blue_Jay33
The problem is that your source(for which there is no link) is a highly subjective view. "Traditional" to whom? Romans. Traditional to other cultures would be entirely different. Also note that prostitution and homosexuality were accepted as part of Roman society long before the fall of Rome. I also notice that women being wealthy and powerful is mentioned like it's a bad thing, and partly to blame.

The argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny.



I think it does stand up to scrutiny.

We have a real life test subject in the black community in America. One cannot divorce the nearly 75% out of wedlock birth rate and the complete and utter dysfunction that has become the black community today. It wasn't always like this for blacks, even at the height of Jim Crow and segregation and even higher poverty rates. The one thing that allowed blacks to survive was strong family foundations and religious convictions. It wasn't until the liberal war on poverty where blacks were convinced to rely on the government where you see the growth in the out of wedlock birth rates. It is not only blacks though as you see the same pathologies in other groups among the those born out of wedlock. A broken family structure is one of the best predicators of someone growing up and remaining in poverty.

This is not to say that out of wedlock birth rates equal gay marriage. I don't know that we have enough data and history to really know how gay marriage and gay parents will impact future generations. Seeing the destruction within int he black community by absent fathers, I rather see a kid with two daddys instead of no daddy.

I did see a study where it looked at how women in the work force has to some degree hurt the prospects of many men. You basically double the size of the work force, but not necessarily the number of jobs and thus it puts pressure on wages. I'm not arguing I don't want women in the work force, but numerically, you have to see how women gaining access to jobs traditionally held by men could have other unintended consequences.



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 10:40 AM
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originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: windword

Interesting that you picked up on the femisnsim aspect, mentioned. But men becoming de-motivated is equaling troubling. Men playing video games, instead of doing other productive things is just one example.
There are many complex variables contributing to the total situation.


You do realize that women also play video games? Women make up 49%-52% of video-game players. I think your views on the whole thing are a bit... "odd", to say the least.

By any chance are you a religious individual?

Source
edit on 2/7/15 by Ghost147 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

40% of children born out of wedlock - check
High risk of jail/drugs/suicide for children raised by single mothers - check
Women working and having to send their children to daycare - check
Decreasing per capita marriages and more men going MGTOW - check
Bachelor tax being proposed in western countries - check
Real life mouse utopia for some western men - check
Potential for a rise in homosexual exchange and prostitution - check

I agree 100%, the traditional family unit is being destroyed and it will have devastating consequences.



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 10:41 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33



Interesting that you picked up on the femisnsim aspect


I took the first sentence from the quote and ran it through Google. It displayed numerous "anti-feminism" blogs and one anti-gay blog.

Why were men supposedly refusing to marry? Why were children growing up without fathers? Why were women supposedly apathetic about child rearing? Where does this supposed information come from?

What proof do have that the family unity was breaking down in Rome at the time of its fall? What proof do have as to the claims in the OP's cited paragraph?








edit on 2-7-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 10:41 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33


I think there were more then a few contributing factors to the fall of Rome . The family unit probably being one and the other's also can be seen in the US as well .Earnest L Martin's book The People History Forgot www.askelm.com... is a great read and follows the slaves from the middle east back to Rome and explains what probably happened .in short a Roman could have 1000 slaves .Romans who couldn't afford slaves were at a disadvantage in competing and so moved to different provinces .Once a slave owner died his slaves got their freedom and became Roman citizens .The original slaves were too old to move back to their mother land and their kids knew nothing but the place they grew up . They didn't speak Latin but Greek that they got from their parents . Any way it is a good read . There is a audio file on the book as well



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 10:46 AM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Blue_Jay33


I think there were more then a few contributing factors to the fall of Rome . The family unit probably being one and the other's also can be seen in the US as well .Earnest L Martin's book The People History Forgot www.askelm.com... is a great read and follows the slaves from the middle east back to Rome and explains what probably happened .in short a Roman could have 1000 slaves .Romans who couldn't afford slaves were at a disadvantage in competing and so moved to different provinces .Once a slave owner died his slaves got their freedom and became Roman citizens .The original slaves were too old to move back to their mother land and their kids knew nothing but the place they grew up . They didn't speak Latin but Greek that they got from their parents . Any way it is a good read . There is a audio file on the book as well


In other words, unchecked immigration and lack of assimilation by said immigrants contributed to the down fall. Gee, where do we see that occurring now?



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 10:50 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Your "source" is "What Men Are Saying About Women" - A BLOG?

Feminism Responsible For The Fall Of Rome..

And the facts that men don't stay around to take care of the children they produce AND that women have to work to make a decent living is the woman's fault how???

Oh, Lord! I'm getting outta here!



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 10:54 AM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Women initiate around 70% of divorces and recieve primary custody something like 80% of the time while getting child support the vast majority of time and most alimony is awarded to the female. So most men are put in a position to work their ass of or go to jail.....maybe the lgtb community can fight for fathers rights now.



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated

This is a short excerpt from that book .

As for the population of the Samaritans, recent studies suggest that there were as many as half a million Samaritans in central Palestine in the 1st century and about three times that many in the other areas of the Roman Empire and other areas mentioned above (Alan, Crown, The Samaritans [Tubingen: J.C.B. Mohr, 1989], p. 201). Two million Samaritans in the 1st century represented a large group of people to the Romans and they would have been politically important to the government of Rome as well as to their neighbors who lived near them or among them.

What happened to that population of Samaritans which numbered up to two million people in the time of the apostles and for the next six hundred years that followed? This is one of the things I hope to show in the remainder of this book. This vast number of people have simply disappeared from history. That is, they have vanished as far as being denominated as "Samaritans."

Today the number of identifiable Samaritans is drastically reduced to a small community (about 600) still living in two locations in Israel in Nablus and near Tel Aviv (some in Nablus I have come to know personally during the many times I have been to the area). They have told me that they have early records of their forefathers showing at one time that there were Samaritans all over Europe as well as Egypt, North Africa and even India. They once represented a large population of the Roman world and they became influential among the Romans.

This dispersion of Samaritan peoples to many areas of Europe (and even Asia) has been known by the remnant Samaritans who still live in Palestine. As long ago as 1865, Robert Mimpriss in his Gospel Treasury, Expository Harmony of the Four Evangelists (New York: M. W. Dodd, 1868), stated:

"In ages past we find them [the Samaritans] inhabiting various cities in Palestine, and extending even to Constantinople. There was a tradition among them that large numbers of their brethren were dwelling in various parts of the world ― in England, France, India, and elsewhere and they have written concerning them from time to time, in the hope of becoming acquainted with these their brethren.”

• p.545
The book was written for a reason not connected to the subject matter of the OP but it does give a glimpse into some of day and the society .



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 11:06 AM
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I have a Logic and Critical Thinking class in college right now and the OP has a fallacy called False Cause.

Here is a link that explains it in a simple way:

False Cause

Also:



God knew the family unit would be important for a stable society


How do you know that a god exists? and how do you know that god knew that?



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated
The issues you cite are not unique to the black community, or unique to our society. They are issues with the human species as a whole throughout history. Wars, economics, domestic issues, governing principles, and so on can effect any "traditional" family structures no matter what is considered traditional in any given culture. It is the breakdown of infrastructure in a society that causes the breakdown of the family structure. What I'm saying is, it needs to be looked at in reverse. It is the breakdown of those things conducive to the family structure that set the domino effect in motion.

Any society that goes through the kind of re-structuring that Rome did(out of necessity and desperation) will have major issues that must be resolved. The problem is, Rome was already in the throes of death before that change, and they couldn't withstand it, hence the breakdown of their society as a whole. The strength of the family structure could not have saved Rome from what was inevitable.



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 11:28 AM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Blue_Jay33


I think there were more then a few contributing factors to the fall of Rome . The family unit probably being one and the other's also can be seen in the US as well .Earnest L Martin's book The People History Forgot www.askelm.com... is a great read and follows the slaves from the middle east back to Rome and explains what probably happened .in short a Roman could have 1000 slaves .Romans who couldn't afford slaves were at a disadvantage in competing and so moved to different provinces .Once a slave owner died his slaves got their freedom and became Roman citizens .The original slaves were too old to move back to their mother land and their kids knew nothing but the place they grew up . They didn't speak Latin but Greek that they got from their parents . Any way it is a good read . There is a audio file on the book as well


In other words, unchecked immigration and lack of assimilation by said immigrants contributed to the down fall. Gee, where do we see that occurring now?


Darned near......everywhere across Western Civilization. Just saw a report on Al Jazeera about a refugee camp of hundreds outside the French port of Calais. The refugees are there to try to jump aboard trucks to gain illegal entry into the UK. (don't ask me how that works). The French are angry the UK won't take more refugees. In France, the Muslim immigrants are apparently ghettoized because the French don't have any mechanism for assimilation. Obama's administration is working to relocate 60,000 refugees from Syria across the US.

I don't remember a time in recent history where we've seen such a wave of mass migration out of Africa, the Middle East and Central America. Apparently, only the Chinese and Russians have the situation under control.



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Thank you for brining this to our attention! Rome is a great example but it stands to its own logical reason that if you want to destroy a people then just destroy the family unit. The family unit is attacked in so many different ways and its all planned. Just sit back and enjoy the show. Those who still fear God will fight to defent the family unit unfortunately the deception has become so great that there are few who can still resist. Those who are fighting for the family unit are fighting a losing battle and the same will happen to us as happened to Rome. Rome also fell because it embrased sexual deviency as a lifestyle. Same a the western world today. Judgement is coming soon! Repent and be saved!



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 11:52 AM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33



There are many factors that are blamed for the Fall of Rome. On this page, the factors considered are

Decay,
Vandals, and
Religion, including Christianity.


Reasons for the Fall of Rome



posted on Jul, 2 2015 @ 11:58 AM
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originally posted by: HD3DSURROUNDSOUND
a reply to: Blue_Jay33
Those who still fear God will fight to defent the family unit unfortunately the deception has become so great that there are few who can still resist. Those who are fighting for the family unit are fighting a losing battle and the same will happen to us as happened to Rome. Rome also fell because it embrased sexual deviency as a lifestyle.


[sarcasm]Yes... you are truly a saint amongst lesser men. Fighting for the freedom and righteousness of humanity for you are gods warrior. You are above all other human beings because you have chosen to accept and follow the one true god and his will. All those who are different are sub-human and incompetent individuals who are worthless scum[/sarcasm]

Oh wait... your religion didn't create the concept of marriage... guess you need to reevaluate your delusional view of how the world works




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