OK Supreme Court: Ten Commandments Monument Must Be Removed From Capitol

a reply to: introvert

"The right" left me behind long, long ago.

You are right.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: windword

Yep, it's always when the Christians are forced to be nice to Satanists do they relent with their hypocrisy.

Dude, haven't I seen you on the many "don't provoke the Muslims" threads? You dig what I am saying?

You didn't answer my question:
"Then why do you care so much about this monument being in front of a government building? "

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Logarock

It wasn't officially founded as a Christian nation, but the founders had Christian roots and influences.

Even with that, they understood the dangerous of a Theocracy and the favoring of one religion over another in politics. This is why The Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment is so important.

This issue was so vitally important to our founders that they decided to make it the very FIRST amendment!

I have been saying this the whole thread.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Logarock

I have only to point to Alexander de Tocqueville.

See you guys are getting some stiff resistance and the crap adjectives start flying.

Where again is Alexander de Tocqueville's signature on the Declaration of Independence? Oh...that's right...he was a French pseudo-political philosopher who was convinced America would fail.

Just establishing the fact the Christianity was observed with overwhelming presents in early america. Even you cant get around that.

Oh yea and now de Tocqueville is a pseudo-political philosopher. Rich. lol

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: introvert

"The right" left me behind long, long ago.

You are right.

Oh wow Tex like we can trust the Left these days with our constitutional rights and all else. I mean come on man.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: MystikMushroom

I've been saying this for years. The Left in this country are the moderates/centrists, and the right has become a victim of it's own propaganda. They are continuing to push further to the extreme right.

Seriously. Who could call themselves any sort of astute observer of the american cultural and political world and call the left centrists?

Anyway its been real. Appreciate the mainly heated and civil tone....scraped the bottom a few times in those shallow water but hay. I am out of here.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Logarock

I have only to point to Alexander de Tocqueville.

See you guys are getting some stiff resistance and the crap adjectives start flying.

Where again is Alexander de Tocqueville's signature on the Declaration of Independence? Oh...that's right...he was a French pseudo-political philosopher who was convinced America would fail.

Just establishing the fact the Christianity was observed with overwhelming presents in early america. Even you cant get around that.

Oh it was "observed" in early America...and immediately banned from government.

“All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.”
Thomas Paine

“I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.”
Founding Father Thomas Jefferson — letter to Elbridge Gerry, January 26, 1799

“The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.”
James Madison — 1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches

“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights
Thomas Jefferson — in a speech to the Virginia Baptists, 1808

“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Logarock

It wasn't officially founded as a Christian nation, but the founders had Christian roots and influences.

Even with that, they understood the dangerous of a Theocracy and the favoring of one religion over another in politics. This is why The Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment is so important.

This issue was so vitally important to our founders that they decided to make it the very FIRST amendment!

I believe most open minded people believe this to be the truth. Seems obvious given the history before the founding of the country.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: introvert

"The right" left me behind long, long ago.

You are right.

Oh wow Tex like we can trust the Left these days with our constitutional rights and all else. I mean come on man.

I can't trust anyone outside of me and my own, to be honest.

Its isn't like there are only 2 choices to be had. Even if the whole nation has long forgotten that.

a reply to: Logarock

So does that mean you aren't going to answer my question?

Seems a real shame that if the FFs intended to country to operate under and cater to a specific religion that they forgot to state that in the documents. Guess we will have to live with that mistake.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Could we see a backlash? There was one person advocating war on another thread because of the gay folk.(removed now btw a hateful post.)

I sure hope not. I don't want anyone hurt or injured by anyone.

I heard about another black church being lit on fire yesterday. Racism isn't an issue? Those people are sure proving that sentiment wrong.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It's a dog eat dog world Augustus

It may not have been holy - but it was still some pretty fancy thinking on their part

:-)

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Seamrog

Who's trying to make this some sort of "utopia"?

The secular 'progressives' who are decimating our culture and bringing ruin to our once great country. Marx and Engels could not be prouder.

originally posted by: introvert

I just want to live my life the way I see fit, allow others to do the same, and deny those that want to push their agendas and beliefs on to me.

I see this as an incredibly selfish, naive worldview. If you lived on your own little earth, this may be a valid concept, but in this reality, it speaks to a relatively narrow experience of a broader world.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Logarock

It wasn't officially founded as a Christian nation, but the founders had Christian roots and influences.

Even with that, they understood the dangerous of a Theocracy and the favoring of one religion over another in politics. This is why The Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment is so important.

This issue was so vitally important to our founders that they decided to make it the very FIRST amendment!

I have been saying this the whole thread.

Then you and I would agree on something!

I'd think more religious people would be on board with this, as it protects their right to worship. Yes, it prevents any ONE religion from being in political power, but that means it keeps another religion than your own from dictating to yours!

I don't think the Christians would like Islam to be influential in American politics!

And I don't think Muslims like having Christians in political power making laws and passing legislation that has a Christian agenda!

Keeping government non-religious favors no one, which means it favors everyone's religion. It treats anyone of any faith the SAME, which means the Satanists aren't going to take over and ban your religion.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

"The right" left me behind long, long ago.

I got your Che Guevara T shirt right here Tex - you let me know when you're ready

:-)

a reply to: Kromlech

Good separation of church and state...........Also remove under God from the pledge......It was added in the 1950s.

a reply to: Logarock

Seriously. Who could call themselves any sort of astute observer of the american cultural and political world and call the left centrists?

Anyone that understands what a "left" and "right" ideology is. Can you tell me when the last time we have had any real social programs pushed through congress? Like a universal healthcare system or a graduated tax system? When is the last time the Left actually did anything "Leftist"? They have become diet-republicans, or republican-lite.

On the other hand, the Republicans call themselves conservative, yet have become neo-conservatives that are so extreme that even real fiscal conservatives have to distance themselves.

They have fallen prey to the right-wing propaganda that is spewed all over this nation everyday and continue to become more and more polarized.

The republicans, as well as the Christians, deserve every bit of flak they get for trying to shove their nonsense down our throats...when all the most of us want is to be free.

originally posted by: Logarock
It shouldn't even be on the bills.

It was added to paper currency untilt eh 1950's, the motto was added to minted currnecy during the Civil War period. I have no issue with it since it is non-denominational but if were removed I would not have much of an issue either.

a reply to: introvert

Yep. A lot of moderate Republicans I know even think their own party is a bit crazy these days. They won't switch to the dreaded "D" on their party affiliation -- but they certainly shake their head at the way their own party is acting.

"Woah, I was pretty moderate here...what the heck happened? Now I'm supposed to be some radical conservative?"

That's pretty much how a lot of people I know that lean slightly more Republican than Democrat feel. The left hasn't radicalized so much, if anything they've moved closer to the center of the political spectrum. I think they had to -- the right-wing folks dragged them that direction.

Another unfortunate side-effect of radicalizing yourself...you make your opponent seem more normal.

And with the clown-car that is the Republican primary, every Tom, Dick and Harry has their own candidate splitting the party into a dozen factions. Instead of rallying behind 2-3 candidates you have a plethora of people to divide the camp.

We always talk about divide and conquer here on ATS -- the Republicans are doing that to themselves by watering down their party with so many candidates. No one is going to get maximum fundraising and exposure early on, and this will set them back compared to the Democrat candidate post-primary.

I'm looking at this from a strategic point of view.