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How we become what we hate

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posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 01:24 PM
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I was thinking the other day how much I have changed in the last few years. I started reading ATS back in 2008 and I believed probably more than half of all the conspiracy theories I read about. But now I'm skeptical of more than 90% of all the theories out there and I find myself being that guy who debunks theories more often than I believe in them. I used to promote ideals about a world without money or suffering, I would watch docos such as Zeitgeist and think that we could create a Utopia if everyone just threw away their money and let highly centralized government manufacturers create everything they need for free... how naive I was. Now I'm a unwavering libertarian and I believe in free market capitalism and a small government with a balanced budget which doesn't interfere with every aspect of our lives. Of course I don't agree with the system we live in because we have let our governments grow too large and I think the Western world is turning into one big nanny state at a rapid pace.

It's kind of weird when I start debating someone who just finished watching a doco like Zeitgeist and they're making the exact same arguments I used to make, trying to tell me how money is the root of all evil, as if human greed plays no role in the process. I try to explain that humans have used bartering systems since the dawn of time to exchange value and that money simply makes it easier for trade to happen, and then they start accusing me of being one of the soulless corporate fat cats. Until the day we have infinite resources there is absolutely no reason to expect people to give up all their personal possessions and share everything they have because people are too greedy. And beyond that, it seems dangerous to say that nothing can be truly owned by anyone because then our own children become property of society (aka the state) and we all know how well it works when the government thinks it owns our children and knows what's better for them than we do.

But I don't want to go off on a rant about socialism, so let me wrap this up. Basically it seems to me we start off in life hating the people we will one day become. I've heard of many children who grow up in a religious household and then become firm atheists and feel like a weight has been lifted and they can see clearly for the first time. Then you have people who've been atheists all their lives and they suddenly have a major epiphany and start preaching about their transformation and how they were able to see the light. I remember when I first joined ATS I didn't like the hardcore skeptics such as Phage who had to ruin all the fun, but now I respect him and I can appreciate his attempts to shine light on hoaxes and false information. Ultimately skeptics and truth seekers are both trying to do the same thing: see through the lies and get to the truth. I think the skeptics play an important role in uncovering the truth, but obviously the people who are paid to debunk real conspiracies don't help.
edit on 30/6/2015 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 01:29 PM
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posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 01:31 PM
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It is interesting. I've heard many people who growing up say they never way to be like X, and that's exactly who they become. For me it was never ending up like my father, and I find myself becoming more like him as I age. I recall reading once that inherited traits shine most as we age. That would fit here. Maybe people attempt to fight what they really feel unconsciously, and eventually their declining energy reserves force them to go a more natural route. I don't know, but it is interesting.



posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 02:01 PM
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In reply to ChaoticOrder :

We dont become what we hate.
We believe that we become something (temporarily), but for one reason:

To show us that there is Nothing to hate about.


originally posted by: mikegrouchy


You would be REALLY scared, if you did, again, more research, but with your mind set up to find the exactly the OPOSITE of what you just thought that it was true.

...

The Truth is simple, if you Hate, you will see a hatefull world:
Your thoughts are Mirrored in the world.
Try it out if you like but keep in mind : Love is the only thing there is. (and your last hope if you find yourself hopeless)

edit on 30/6/2015 by Hombre because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I think there's a much easier explanation.

Everything has its good points. We're taught by society, elders, schools, and the such to like and dislike certain things. People exaggerate the details to get us to quickly agree with their conclusions. Over time, we find out that a lot of things were exaggerated, false, or simply excluded. Then we have to rethink what we were taught & start rejecting the ones who manipulated us. Plus, there's the common tendency to desire what we're told we cannot have.



posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: Hombre


Your thoughts are Mirrored in the world.

That reminds me of another theory I used to believe in, the idea that we could shape reality with thoughts alone, like something out of the secret. Now I firmly believe that an objective reality does exist and that conscious observers play no special role in quantum mechanics. Of course our thoughts and our frame of mind will dictate our actions, and the effects of our actions will ripple out into the world and change reality, but there's nothing paranormal about the way that happens.
edit on 30/6/2015 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Spend some time at the poker table, craps table and tell me it's all just random chance. Some people hold majic in the palm of their hand.



posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 07:16 PM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

There is ample statistical and scientific evidence that psi exists. Skepticism is ok but denying research by qualified academics is foolish.

www.espresearch.com...

www.news.cornell.edu...

deanradin.com...



posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 09:10 PM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder
Well even if only 10% of all of it is true, we are deep in fecal matter. I created a thread some time ago saying that "95% of ATS is garbage", so I agree.

I think hating or loving something, being against or being for, are the faces of the same coin, it's the manifestation of the relationship that you have with that something, and you can't ignore something with which you have a relationship. I don't think true "indifference" towards something that you are in relationship with is possible, so you either love it or hate it.

And please explain to us what "greed" is, from a holistic stand point (meaning not excluding any parameter from the equation), because you use that word like an incantation, like superstitious people use the word "devil" or "satan".



posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 09:29 PM
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originally posted by: Hombre
The Truth is simple, if you Hate, you will see a hatefull world:
Your thoughts are Mirrored in the world.


Yup. Perhaps this is why our brain hemispheres control the contralateral side of the body. right-brain controls our left side of the body, and left-brain controls the right side: the external world is quite literally a mirror image of our internal state. This is one of the few clues we are given scientifically regarding this phenomenon.

If you pay attention to what you are presented with it becomes obvious that this is the case. It can only be proven by your own conscious experience.



posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 09:38 PM
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a reply to: cooperton

Correction. Your perceived subjective worldview is a product of your internal psyche's terrain. It has nothing to do with the actual external world. The world is as it is, we can only seek to approach it, but never truth reach.



posted on Jul, 1 2015 @ 01:22 AM
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a reply to: pl3bscheese

interesting thread. sorry to reply to you specificaly but your reply caught my eye.
it is the only one here that sounds undifined .. meaning there is no negative traits you have that rub off. meaning in this thread you are the only one who feels like you are who you know you are and you don't project it on no one.
would make it difficult to connect out in the open with u. no way you can tell who you are in private. sorry for analyzing u like that . it's not my intention really , just participating in the thread .. interesting
edit on 1-7-2015 by justchilling because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2015 @ 02:11 AM
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I absolutely think that if we focus long enough, with enough emotion, on something, we become it.

That doesn't stop me from falling into that trap at times, I often catch myself when I have been focusing on something I don't wish to become, and have to remind myself to drop it and turn to other things (or find a way to neutralize the emotional charge I am associating with it).

But sometimes the unconscious has reasons for guiding you to become your foe, to help you understand and "walk in their shoes" as it were, so .... if the draw is too strong, I sometimes just let it happen and learn whatever I have to learn.



posted on Jul, 1 2015 @ 02:16 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

The view that our thoughts shape the world is no different than solipsism, which is a phase of youth. We grow out of it when we find out the opposite is the case, and such theories don't provide any use in the real world; that is, unless it ain't already serving as some sort of crutch for the emotions or passions.

Pessimism and cynicism ripens with age, and should be embraced.



posted on Jul, 1 2015 @ 02:20 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma




I absolutely think that if we focus long enough, with enough emotion, on something, we become it.


I think it is rather repetition that provides habit. We don't necessarily become something, per say, but can embody it in our actions.



posted on Jul, 1 2015 @ 02:22 AM
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Yes it is the destiny of every generation to finally assume the helm then become the very people they despised in their youth.



posted on Jul, 1 2015 @ 02:45 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Bluesma




I absolutely think that if we focus long enough, with enough emotion, on something, we become it.


I think it is rather repetition that provides habit. We don't necessarily become something, per say, but can embody it in our actions.


In some cases, yes. Though don't get too literal with me- you know I wasn't saying something like "focusing on cats to much wil result in you waking up one day as a cat".


But specifically, behaviors begin to emerge from us, not from habit in doing, but from habit of visualization.
The source of hypocrisy that we all have to deal with.
-And particularly a challenge for people who engage in an active and passionate opposition to certain behaviors.

The subconscious mind doesn't discern the separation between self and other very well, nor good and bad.... so it simply is exposed to the images the conscious mind is sending it- like a movie without sound. It doesn't hear the narrator saying "..and this is something others do, that I will not- it is bad to do"

It just keeps having this film sent down over and over, of a human carrying out a specific action, and with lots of emotional energy, and begins to say, gee, I guess this is what I must do! That's what the captain commands!

.....and we end up calling our subconscious the subversive enemy influencing our movements and words, because we kept sending it the wrong commands.... LOL!!!
edit on 1-7-2015 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2015 @ 02:50 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma

Knowledge comes by taking things apart: analysis. But wisdom comes by putting things together.
-- John A. Morrison

Your quote sums it up perfectly



posted on Jul, 1 2015 @ 03:25 AM
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originally posted by: justchilling
a reply to: Bluesma

Knowledge comes by taking things apart: analysis. But wisdom comes by putting things together.
-- John A. Morrison

Your quote sums it up perfectly


That is really what I was referring to about "finding a way to neutralize the emotional charge". Understanding does that. You can still judge that you don't want to be or do something, without the emotional charge associated with it, if you have come to understand why others do/are that, with compassion.



posted on Jul, 1 2015 @ 04:03 AM
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a reply to: olaru12


Spend some time at the poker table, craps table and tell me it's all just random chance.

Oh trust me I have, I love my Texas Holdem, and I will tell you it's a mix of skill and pure chance.


There is ample statistical and scientific evidence that psi exists. Skepticism is ok but denying research by qualified academics is foolish.

'psi' is a very broad term. Your links talk about things such as remote viewing, telepathy, and predicting the future. I didn't talk about any of those things, I made a very specific statement: reality exists externally from conscious observers and we can not alter reality with thoughts alone.
edit on 1/7/2015 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)




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