The symbolism behind Baptism

I am for the most part a naturlist, I believe that anything and everything can and does have a natural explanation. Just because we do not understand something does not mean it is somehow supernatural or unexplainable. We are part of a natural world and universe so anything contained within this world/universe can be explained naturally. "Holy" books, in my opinion, are metaphorical stories that represent very natural processes and phenomena. I try to draw out these natural meanings within these supernatural metaphors.

On to the topic shall we?

There are two types of baptism mentioned within the bible, the first is water baptism, it is the baptism that John performed on Jesus. The second is the fire baptism, the one that Jesus is said to baptize with.

Matthew 3
11 I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

So John baptized with water and Jesus baptizes with fire. What are the meanings behind these rituals? I believe there is a very natural explanation for what these rituals represent.

When Jesus walked on water (supposedly), this represented rising above the material plane and walking in the Spirit. To overcome the world is to "walk on water". Jesus says that the Spirit is like the wind.

John 3
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.

What resides above the water of the lake that Jesus supposedly walked on? The air or wind. So with this in mind, we can come to the conclusion that water baptism has something to do with the material plane we reside within.

What happens before a mother gives birth to a baby? Her water breaks. A bodily birth is coincided by the amniotic fluid of the womb "breaking" out of the amniotic sac.

What happened when Jesus was brought out of the water?

Luke 3
22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

The Holy Spirit descended on him in "bodily" form. This is a clear reference to childbirth in my opinion. When Jesus comes out of the water, this represents a baby coming out of the womb in bodily form.

So what of John the Baptist? What did he have to say of himself?

John 1
23 John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the voice of one calling in the wilderness, 'Make straight the way for the Lord.'"

John says he is a voice calling from the wilderness. What is the wilderness? A part of our Mother Earth. John represents the bodily aspect of existence, the physical realm that surrounds us. Him baptizing with water represents the emergence of physical reality.

The word "matter" has the same etymological root as the word "mother". Matter is what constitutes the physical world around us, it is the "Mother" of creation, it is the wilderness, it is Earth.

With all of this in perspective, I think it is clear that water baptism represents childbirth, the bodily birth we have gone through. To be baptized is to be "born again", childbirth is to be "born again" literally.

So what of fire baptism? What could it represent? In my opinion it represents the opposite of water baptism or birth, it represents death!

Romans 6
3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Paul says that to baptized into Jesus is to be baptized into his death. John says that Jesus would baptize with fire, so I do not believe Paul is speaking of water baptism here, he must be speaking of the fire baptism that Jesus is said to perform.

Acts 19
3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”

“John’s baptism,” they replied.

4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Why would Paul need to baptize these men again if they had already been baptized in John's way? Because the baptism that is in Jesus' name is that of fire. not water. When Paul baptized these men in Jesus' name, he baptized them into death, just as he says in Romans. This is the baptism by fire that John spoke of, all of our eventual deaths.

When we die, our spirit (the fire that is within us) is no longer tethered to this body, it is thrown to the wind, we do not know where it comes from and we do not know where it will go. When we die, we will be "walking on water" because we have overcome the world through death and now walk in the wind of the Spirit. But as with all things, we must eventually come back down.

When you put fire to water it rises (to rise above the waters is to "walk on water"), when it rises it is condensed into a cloud and will eventually rain back down onto Earth. Water puts out fire, birth does away with death. Birth, death, rebirth. The universe works in cycles, we as life itself are no different.

Revelation 1
7 "Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.

Jesus' return is said to be "with the clouds". This ties into my analogy above. When water rains down after it is evaporated, that is the "water baptism" that is performed by John, a.k.a. Mother Earth. the womb of creation. Water and fire baptism are references to the cycles of birth, death, and rebirth.

John 1
30 This is the one I meant when I said, 'A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.'

This is John talking about Jesus. How does someone who comes after you also come before you....?

Well, how does day come before and after night? Because it is an endless cycle of day and night; water baptism and fire baptism; birth, death, and rebirth.

We are witnesses to the divine this very moment. Look at what you see, that is the divine light of God. The bible is describing what YOU are at the most fundamental level. If you read these stories literally it is doing a disservice to them.

Thanks for reading.

I remember a a fellow student in high school telling Me I was"damned"because I wasn't "baptized"Fk'him..I'm a Spiritual being,and I do think there's something better than us in the sky..

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yes great post. though I see us ascending into higher planes instead of back down.

a reply to: zardust

I believe we can ascend to these higher planes right now through meditation. We are also in a "higher plane" by the fact we are self-aware entities that have the abilities of intellect and insight. The higher plane is within the mind and the immaterial soul. To be connected to your inner self and to explore it is to be connected to that higher plane.

I personally do not believe the physical realm is avoidable. We cannot avoid it any more than a droplet of water can avoid gravity. What we can avoid though is ignorance, we can also strive to better ourselves and to become more connected with both the inner and the outer, they are mirrors of one another.

I could be wrong though, I only have a very limited and fleeting perspective within this existence. As of right now though, my gut tells me that rebirth is unavoidable. I have no issue with that.

You missed Baptism by Blood. There are actually three kinds.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I swam in the River Jordan with a bunch of baptisms going on around me, came out with a urinary tract and left middle ear infection.

True Story.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Why dont you quote the full complete idea.

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

The Baptism of Fire is the separation of the wheat from the chaff. And Water Baptism is a symbol for being born again in Christ. It involves repentance. Birth does not involve repentance. Physical birth (by water) is the creation of your soul and having it placed to the flesh. The Baptism of the Spirit is the birth of your human spirit.

The Baptism of Fire is the removal of those who have not been baptized by the Spirit.

How are we baptized by the Spirit and thereby born again? By believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins.

You cant examine a Spiritual principle with a natralist view as your primary mentality.

Whatever baptism truthfully is it is positively not what you are proposing because you have extrapolated it to be part of the nature of the physical realm.Things that are metaphysical are beyond physical (matter) and everything of that nature is only conjecture and cannot be known or experienced in the physical realm.It could be “like”(and only in similarity) but it can never be “is”.In other words baptism can be “like”(metaphor ,simile) a birth or death of the physical realm but it is not a birth or death in the physical realm because it is no longer like but “is”.

Yahoshua never explained the details of what he knew because it was futile.The closest example in the physical realm would be like a doctor trying to explain the conception of a human to an amoeba. The amoeba cannot know the experience of a human.Both are forms of life yet they are in one sense living in different realms.

Baptism in the physical realm is purely a religious ritual.Yahoshua fleshed it out when he allowed John to baptize him in water and proved it was only a ritual.The water didn’t do anything… there was not a physical “dove” that was the Holy Spirit …the voice was not a “voice” from a “heaven”.

These are all things the religious carnal mind extrapolates and creates religious doctrines from.Yahoshua never baptized anyone with water or fire.He never compelled anyone else to do so either.This is just more religious fodder to create the doctrines of men and abundance evidence man cannot know the creator God “acts” by religion of any kind…including yours.

You can theorize all you want however it is the abundant evidence it is not truth only something you made up in your mind just as many others do all the time.Some believe religious rhetoric made up by others some make up their own however it is ALL false.

The truth of true reality(what is life) cannot be known by observation in the physical realm.It is like a fish living in a fish bowl.Everything they see is bent by the curvature of the bowl.All they can observe is bent and distorted and very,very local to the fishbowl and it’s very limited surroundings.They know nothing of their master except that they feed them and when they don’t feed them they die and get flushed down the toilet into oblivion.

The fishes purpose in life is to live… because that is ALL they can do.In that case fish are much wiser than men because they don’t question their life ..they just live.Because after all it doesn’t matter one bit what they think especially when they are completely wrong.

a reply to: ketsuko

Baptism by blood isn't in the NT as far as I can tell, it is a Catholic catechism. Water and fire baptism are the only two that are mentioned within the pages of the NT. Correct me if I'm wrong.

a reply to: Rex282

Jesus taught many things in parable form, I don't see why it couldn't be the same with baptism. Maybe his act of baptism was his way of physically representing a "new birth" and his devotion to his ministry afterward. What exidence do you have that a physical dove did not descend on Jesus? That's what they bible says, so you must be getting your idea of what it means from your head just as I have with my idea.

I see you like to call everyone's beliefs a "religion" if they do not conform to your own, despite you never actually stating what your beliefs are. I could just as easily dismiss your beliefs as "religion" as you do mine and many others. Your beliefs are "made up in your head" as well and thus are not worthy of consideration. See how easy that is?