John Oliver Segment on Transgender Rights

PLEASE(Pretty please!)

We have had enough recent threads on this topic full of negativity, name calling and evangelism. Can we please use this one for sharing information and understanding and not let it spiral out of control like the others? If you have hateful or insulting comments or wish to quote scripture, please use one of the other threads already full of this kind of talk. Understandably, this may be confusing or even uncomfortable for some to discuss but if you are willing to raise your awareness and understanding, I'm sure your questions will be answered if asked in a mature and genuine way.

Please be respectful and treat us with dignity and respect. A person shouldn't even have to ask for this, it should be a given.

There are several transgender and transsexual members on this board and our stories are spread across several different threads. There is some vital and accurate information including personal histories shared at considerable cost by some, myself included. Pay particular notice of posts from JadeStar, TrappedPrincess and others to gain some insight into this and you too can join the club who's motto is Deny Ignorance.

Thank you, kindly.

Caitlyn is a woman, Rachel is Black

Are the Baby Boomers at odds with social inclusion

Why are so many people afraid/unaccepting of
transgender

First school in nation to offer LGBT studies

Children as young as 12 receiving drugs to prepare for sex change

►eKay◄

edit to add - I see while I was typing, it has already started. If you don't want this "in your face", then quit reading the damn threads.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
besides chromosomal tests, genitals are the most direct way i can think of to determine someones gender. and, i mean, how else do you decide when you are finally a girl or boy if you arent looking at your crotch?

So, if you're walking down the street and you see a person coming the other way, you can't determine if they're a man or a woman?

Can you tell the gender of these people?







None are showing their genitals.

a reply to: KawRider9

Why even comment on a thread discussing a video (and it was aired on television last night first, it doesn't solely exist on the "interwebz") when you won't watch said individual?

a reply to: EKron

Thank you. The point of the thread was supposed to be that. John Oliver laid some beautiful truth bombs. I was hoping we could expand on them.

I'm sort of a religious person and believe in God and in the past I might have been intolerant but on my journey to God-knowledge the reality of compassion, empathy and understanding has become foremost to me.

My brothers and sisters or whatever who are into this life-style are human beings and deserve as much compassion and love as anyone.


Understand that whatever we are any of us could have become that or may become that


If you’re white you could have been black


If you’re black you could have been white


If you’re straight you could have been gay

I you’re gay you could have been straight


I could be you and you could have been me


So how, with those realities known to me, can I treat anyone any different from any one else.


Were all human beings groping in this world for love

a reply to: EKron

Agreed, a couple of us have talked about a topic where Members could ask Question about the GLBTQ community as well as Genderfluid and Pansexual..

there was a little trepidation as far as those who would come into the topic with no reason but to post hateful remarks.. such as Zanti Misfit

Thanks to those so far that have been open minded and dare I say it, supportive. This is something no one can truly understand unless you have experienced it personally. Outwardly, it doesn't make sense sometimes and no definitive cause has ever been found. Although science suspects there may be biological causes and of course, the nature vs. nurture argument is always brought up, to the transgender and transsexual person, it's just the way they are. It is not something anybody would want to choose to be.

It's getting kind of repetitive because I've told my story in several threads now but for those that don't want to wade through the links I posted above, I will tell it again and hopefully not have to put on my Nomex fire suit because of it. I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing it awareness. Before I do though, let me restate that the "T" in LGBT, or transgender, is an umbrella term encompassing various different groups and degrees of gender diversity. "We" are not all the same and don't have all the same issues and needs. However, we do share a commonality which is to be treated and respected like normal human beings.

I have never referred to myself as transgender. My gender is what it always has been as long as I can remember and hasn't changed or "transed". As a child and teen, this was problematic because who I was inside didn't quite go with the outside or that something got screwed up somewhere and I was born different than I should have been. If you read the posts from JadeStar, she too relates as a "girl born different" and if we're lucky, she'll be along to add her narrative to this discussion. This is gender dysphoria in the classic sense. Nobody made us this way, it wasn't from drinking the water it wasn't from abuse, trauma or repressed memories. It just was.

Jade is just 20 and was fortunate to have her gender dysphoria addressed as a teen and is now a striking and very intelligent young woman with an unlimited future ahead of her. I, on the other hand, being born mid 50's did not have the advantages of modern science and understanding and faked my way through miserable high school years until 1974 at 19 I simply could not continue with the facade any longer and began living as a girl. In the days pre Internet and age of information, finding treatment options for my own gender dysphoria were limited. Nevertheless, in 1977, I underwent sexual reassignment surgery and finally, the outside me matched the inside me.

I've lived and worked my entire adult life as a female and I can't imagine it ever being any other way. Was there choice involved here? Yes, option B was to die. I am now 60 and have lived a happy, satisfying wonderful and remarkably normal life including the great guy I was married to for eleven years as one of the high points.

So as you can maybe see, the problems of a girl born different or woman of transsexual history if you will are not necessarily the same as those discussed in the OP's video although there are many in common. In the real world, I am known and identify as just a regular gal but for those that are in a transitional or even part time state, they should be afforded every courtesy and treated with respect for who they present to be.

Thanks for your ear. I will try to answer questions if you have any.

►eKay◄

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
Agreed, a couple of us have talked about a topic where Members could ask Question about the GLBTQ community as well as Genderfluid and Pansexual..

Indeed, Darth. I asked a mod if we could set up an ask me anything type panel but it fell on deaf ears so it looks like we'll have to do what we can when and where the opportunity arises. Heck, I have some GLBTQ-BLT questions of my own.

Thanks!

►eKay◄

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

Of Course Mentally Unstable Trans Gender People have Rights . They Have a Right to be Considered Mentally Unstable by Most Normal People who Recognize the Reality of their TRUE Biological Gender........

Excuse me but you do realize alot of Transgenders are that way due to the DOCTORS re assigning a baby the wrong way. Interacial relationships used to be atributed to mental illness too if i remember. A lot of things that used to be called mental illness are and were proven wrong.

How bigoted can you be to even say such a thing?

a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

First off, let me start by saying I am in full support of the Transgender Community and I have no bias against any individual, class, creed or color when it comes to Civil Rights issues. But I do have a serious concern about persons who gender-identify as the opposite sex who haven't gone through transition using bathrooms of their sexual identification.

Let me clarify.

This is not because of any animosity or insensitivity towards the Transgendered Individual. This is solely and exclusively against opportunistic sex-predators who would use that loophole to possibly attack helpless individuals. I guarantee that there are more sexual predators than there are Transgendered Individuals out there and I would rather not live in a world where even one person fell victim to the aggression and abuses of those sick and twisted types of predators.

Once again, I am not making any allusion that Transgendered personas are sexual predators - I know full well the majority of them are not, and simply wish to be themselves and comfortable int he public sphere. I went through a period of gender dysmorphia several times during my own young adulthood, but finally came to terms with my genetic makeup and just moved on with more pressing matters pertaining to my own life....however, I realize for some individuals, that the feeling of being trapped in the wrong sex assignment is far more insistent and pressing that what I went through.

The reason I worry about the Bathroom Debate is primarily selfish, I admit it.

I still deal with unwanted sexual advances and assumptions about my sexual character in public in broad daylight all the freakin' time by pushy males who don't understand civility and polite boundaries when it comes to the opposite sex. Those are the people I worry might be tempted to take advantage of and exploit loopholes in the Bathroom Clause....should a rape or assault take place in either male or female bathrooms, I fear the Transgender Community would be at the forefront of the Blame Game and once again be subjected to harsh public outcry and resentment because "well they were the ones pushing for that damned bathroom law".

I'm at a loss for a solution, I'm afraid - hence this post and my concerns.

I hope that makes sense because this is a genuine concern I have for both the Transgender Community and the safety of regular people who might have their guards down because they automatically assume everything is fine, the world is a safe place, and somehow evil just suddenly magically disappeared overnight because of Progress.

I look forward to any constructive discussion and solutions towards this conundrum should anyone feel like responding to me.

If you wish to argue my points just for the sake of arguing, please don't bother wasting my time with a "reply to" because I'm really not in the mood for more of the same bickering back and forth over semantics. I'm too old for it, and too tired or having to explain every subtle nuance to folks who read what they think I meant, without paying attention to the whole damn post.

I'm gonna bow out now.
Peace.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Yes, i actually want people to ask about me, i want people to have knowledge of it, even if it's from my perspective that way people are less fearful, or uncomfortable. i know many people don't want to offend so they are afraid to act a certain way, or ask questions... but i personally welcome it.. as long as it's not coming from a place of hate or shame

I agree. I am open to people asking honest questions about being transsexual or transgendered. It's funny but I had no intention on outing myself as a transsexual girl (or as I prefer, girl born differently - a phrase i use because it focuses more on how I feel more than what procedures I had done) who transitioned in her teens on ATS until I saw the alarmist thread about hormone blockers. I saw so much ignorance about transgender issues in that thread and a demonization of basically people like my parents and the health care providers who help me.

Now that I'm out here i'm open and I think it would be great to have a thread where people can ask the LGBTQ "alphabet people" of ATS anything about being Trans* or Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Queer or Gender Fluid because these issues are very much in the news lately.

Also, the clip in the original post has been sent to me by like 5 different people today including a couple who do not know my history but who send me clips from John Oliver and others now and then, so that clip is highly viral.

a reply to: EKron

Thanks for sharing your story again.... i think it's important we do share our stories with people, and answer Questions... i know some Transgender people don't like to be referred to as a Transgender Male or Female and would rather be what they truly are a Male or Female, but i don't think anything is shameful about it especially if you can enlighten people..

i always think of what Harvey Milk said

Gay brothers and sisters, you must come out. Come out to your parents. I know that it is hard and will hurt them, but think about how they will hurt you in the voting booth! Come out to your relatives. Come out to your friends, if indeed they are your friends. Come out to your neighbors, to your fellow workers, to the people who work where you eat and shop. Come out only to the people you know, and who know you, not to anyone else. But once and for all, break down the myths. Destroy the lies and distortions. For your sake. For their sake.

i know many don't want to fit into a 'label' but without it who are we, we are strength in truth and numbers, we can break down the Myths and destroy the lies and distortion..this is the power that oppressors want to keep oppressed

There are many aspects of the GLBTQ+ that are not explored or talked about as much..

originally posted by: KawRider9
a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

First off, I don't watch videos on the interwebz, so I have zero clue of what was in it.

On to my questions. What "struggles" do y'all face on a daily basis?

Before I answer your question let me qualify that all trans* people are different. My personal story is different from TrappedPrincess, Ekron or yuppas though we might all fall under the broad label transgender on a macro level, personally neither I nor Ekron use transgender primarily to describe our personal history and life experience.

So to your question:

For me personally, at this point in life, I don't face any daily struggles any different from most of my friends who are not trans. My daily struggles were as a child, before my parents took my feelings to heart and sought help for me.

I can only imagine what struggles I might be facing now if I were just starting my transition but I completed my transition at age 17 and in my case, that included sex reassignment surgery (SRS) which by the way, not all people under the macro transgender umbrella do.

Kids who grew up like me still probably represent a minority even within the transsexual and transgender communities.

What rights have you been denied?

None so far. I've been incredibly lucky to have been born in a state which changes your birth certificate if you have SRS fairly easily and so like my birth certificate was changed before I even learned to drive.

However others have different stories and there are a some states where I could face employment or housing discrimination if they knew I was born differently.

I personally don't care what ya do with your life, or the choices you make. I AM sick of hearing every special snowflake tell me how I need to accept their lifestyles, as if my acceptance somehow makes things all better?

Well first of all, I didn't make a choice to be born the way I was nor did I want to transition to be a "special snowflake". I wanted to transition to be normal. I don't talk about trans* stuff in general unless the topic comes up and then I have to decide whether it makes sense to out myself to provide a different perspective to the conversation from the standpoint of someone with first hand knowledge.

For me, I don't wake up and think of myself as trans. I think of myself as a woman. Unless the subject comes up (which was kinda rare until all the stories in the news the past few years) I typically don't even out myself.

I mean, it would be like m having worn braces saying "hey, I wore braces" when no one asked. That wouldn't mean i was ashamed that i wore braces but just that it wasn't relevant unless there was a conversation about braces.

It's like that for me. No one knows my story unless i chose to tell it.

If it's jobs you're being denied, you might need to ask yourself a few questions and maybe, just maybe, think about your future employers "feelings"...

Shouldn't employers hire who is best qualified? By the way I've never been denied a job because I was trans, but at the same time I've only had a couple (mostly in the service industry) since I'm a college student and the employer didn't know i was trans at the time I was hired. I also live in a pretty easy going area of the country (Pacific Northwest) with regards to this stuff so I doubt it would have mattered.

I wont hire someone with horrendous face tats, just the same as I wont hire some guy that wants to wear dresses to work.

That's not what we're talking about here. And while I would agree that presentation matters regardless off who or what someone is, transgender women are not "some guy that wants to wear a dress".

BTW: One of the most offensive things you can do is call a trans*girl a boy or a trans*woman a man and vice versa.

Nothing wrong with that and it's my decision, just as it's your decision to not feel right in your body.

I didn't chose not to feel right. No one does AFAIK.

Seriously, think about it like this. Ever have something which was very uncomfortable? Like perhaps a hangnail or a pair of shoes which were too tight or a pain which you could not do anything about?

Imagine if that hangnail or ill-fitting pair of shoes was permanent and beyond that DEFINED who you were to the rest of society. Now imagine being teased for wanting to get rid of it, or wear comfortable shoes and then perhaps after you got rid of the hangnail or poorly fitting shoes, that someone just focuses on nothing but the fact that your shoes at one time didn't fit.

Now imagine all that times 100 and you are getting close to what many trans* people feel growing up. I was one of "the lucky ones" who had her discomfort relieved before it caused further issues, but talk with others who were not so fortunate and they will often tell you some horror stories.

The worst thing that happened to me in life so far was having some catty girls out me to any guy who might show an interest in me in high school before I even knew they were interested. I would have told them but I never even had the chance most of the time. At least a couple guys still asked me out or to dance, one of the guys it didn't matter to is the guy I'm still with now.

Others were nowhere near as fortunate.

If it's restroom denial, grow the # up! Not only have I used the opposite sexes pisser, so has the other side.

I was never denied use of a restroom but look at my picture to the left and tell me if you think it would have been wise for me to go into men's rooms.

I used the girls room in high school for the simple reason that anything else would have been disruptive.

I've stood at the door of a mens restroom to allow a lady to go in without peeping eyes and have had women do the same for me. What right are you being denied when asked to use the restroom designated for your sex?

Of the top of my head: Safety for one thing. I would not feel safe going into a men's room and I think it would be disruptive to do so.

You could ask why there are even men's and women's rooms at all if it doesn't matter. (HInt: it does.)

The Supreme Court has said that marriage is no longer solely between a man and a women, so again, I don't see a "struggle".

That was never a transsexual issue unless the transsexual woman wanted to marry a woman or the transsexual man wanted to marry a man.

Sexual orientation is not the same as gender identity.

If it's acceptance you're after, remember this, what I think of you means absolutely nothing! You yourself is what defines you and if people don't like you, deal with it like the rest of us hated bastards! Ignore your haters like the special snowflake you're!

Like i said, i never wanted to be special for this. Anyone who thinks people are trans* to be special hasn't got a clue how hard this can be for people to deal with.

Though I am not ashamed of what I had to go through I would not wish being trans* on anyone and I had just about the best situation possible for someone born this way.

originally posted by: EKron
PLEASE(Pretty please!)

We have had enough recent threads on this topic full of negativity, name calling and evangelism. Can we please use this one for sharing information and understanding and not let it spiral out of control like the others?

X 1000

If you have hateful or insulting comments or wish to quote scripture, please use one of the other threads already full of this kind of talk. Understandably, this may be confusing or even uncomfortable for some to discuss but if you are willing to raise your awareness and understanding, I'm sure your questions will be answered if asked in a mature and genuine way.

Please be respectful and treat us with dignity and respect. A person shouldn't even have to ask for this, it should be a given.

There are several transgender and transsexual members on this board and our stories are spread across several different threads. There is some vital and accurate information including personal histories shared at considerable cost by some, myself included. Pay particular notice of posts from JadeStar, TrappedPrincess and others to gain some insight into this and you too can join the club who's motto is Deny Ignorance.

Thank you, kindly.

Caitlyn is a woman, Rachel is Black

Are the Baby Boomers at odds with social inclusion

Why are so many people afraid/unaccepting of
transgender

First school in nation to offer LGBT studies

Children as young as 12 receiving drugs to prepare for sex change

►eKay◄

edit to add - I see while I was typing, it has already started. If you don't want this "in your face", then quit reading the damn threads.

Thank you so much Ekron. I feel like there have been a bazillion threads on this and find myself having to explain things over and over so BIG thanks for linking those threads so people can see what has already occurred.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

Of Course Mentally Unstable Trans Gender People have Rights . They Have a Right to be Considered Mentally Unstable by Most Normal People

Is a person who is born deaf who wants to hear mentally ill?

who Recognize the Reality of their TRUE Biological Gender........

I was unaware that sex-differentiation in the brain was not biological. Considering I've studied a fair amount of biology (see my major in blue at the bottom of this post), this is news to me.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

First off, let me start by saying I am in full support of the Transgender Community and I have no bias against any individual, class, creed or color when it comes to Civil Rights issues. But I do have a serious concern about persons who gender-identify as the opposite sex who haven't gone through transition using bathrooms of their sexual identification.

I read your whole post but before I can offer any answers I would need to know that you would define as transition.

I’ll freely admit I also don’t fully comprehend everything about this issue yet, and would probably make a faux pas or two in a social setting, but the key from both sides is to come at it with open minds, empathy and patience, rather than some incredulous fear of the unknown.

I feel like the weatherman at 1:55 represents so many typical reactions, often seen right here on ATS. Rather than just calmly accept that there might be some things in this world he doesn’t fully grasp, and try to actually listen and understand them better – he has to get so outraged by his own ignorance.

This problem goes beyond transgender issues. I've spent a lot of time discussing (ok, arguing) climate change around here, and I've seen this exact same reaction so many times. When someone encounters new information that doesn't jive with what they thought they already knew, their heads tend to explode, and it’s almost like they start going through the 5 stages of grief: denial…anger…bargaining…depression… except many sadly never make it to acceptance

I think this fear of the unknown is also why you see so many people act like everything’s being shoved down their throats, when it’s really not. They just can’t handle the lack of structure such new viewpoints bring to their firmly entrenched reality, so every little reminder of it is treated as an outright assault on their senses. Then they stand there, frozen, incredulous, lost and confused - just like that weatherman. You wanna say "dude, calm down a bit, everything will be ok".

But unfortunately some people feel much more comfortable stuck in perpetual anger, rather than face the prospect of having to rewire their brains a little bit.

a reply to: JadeStar

Transition - one who has yet to change over to the physical bits and pieces in concurrence with the assignment of that particular restroom.

I hope that doesn't sound rude....I know many Transgender can't afford to or don't wish to undergo the knife.

I'd just hate for a sex-predator male to corner a young or elderly lady alone in the Ladies room by claiming "feeling like a female" prior to entry - or conversely, a male who still retains the female sex characteristics being brutally raped in the men's room by a bunch of guys who have tailed him in there under suspicion with intent to do harm.

I'm just tired of sexual assaults happening to people.

Hence my concerns.