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What if ...

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posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 03:32 PM
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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

What then, are YOUR truths, and why are they more valid than what decades of research at the Pyramids themselves have shown?

I absolutely love it when people poo-poo all over education and history and give no valid recourse as to what alternative there is, so let's hear yours.


I don't proclaim any new facts to you but only to challenge the existing - sometimes ones purpose is to destroy what exists and not to create – but then again one must destroy to make space for new ideas. My wish is for you to think for yourself, research long standing "facts", and ask what if. What if I am right? Could you take it?

-MM
I already think well enough for myself not to have my world views challenged simply by someone showing up and telling me to ask "what if". I ask that question every single day. You are coming here, telling me that all of recorded history is incorrect


No one like being told something about themselves that is discomforting - and you are obviously not any different.


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
, without so much as a shred of evidence to your argument beyond "there are gaps in what we know", which will ALWAYS be true.


You asked me to deconstruct the supposed history "fact" about the three Pyramids at Giza, which I did. What more proof do you need?


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Yeah, we don't everything about our history. Convenient things like printing presses didn't exist until a few centuries ago, so books were written primarily by Monks


You don't need "printed press" to write a book.

Your "fact" about the printed press is erroneous, the earliest (known) printed press is from 593 AD in China - the westerns did not "invent" printing at all.


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
, and GASP! Jesuits, who spent most of their life studying scripture.


The Jesuits were the scholars of their time, I'm sure the scripture was important but that was not their main preoccupation.


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
History wasn't written by the servant of feudal society. It wasn't written by the slave in the fields. It wasn't written by the soldier on the battlefield.


What "soldier of the battlefield" from a "feudal society" has written any history? Please enlighten me.


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
And because of that, we only have:

1) Archaeological evidence


Just what evidence are you hinting at here?


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
2) Written Texts


What written texts? Sources please?


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
3) Geological Data and Samples


Archeologists and historians hate geologists because they prove their theories wrong all the time. Quite amusing.


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

OUR time in history is being written by the leyman. It's being written by the common citizen. OUR time in history will be clear and well preserved, unless some global catastrophe occurs.


Unfortunately, the evidence that the modern historians use have bad provenance which make their research groundless. It is like the old story of the universe being carried on the back of a giant turtle; when the student asks "mam, but what carries the turtle?" and the teacher replies "another turtle, dear child", the child once again asks "but what carries that turtle then", the teacher says rather annoyed "dear childs, it is turtles all the way down!"


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
But the common man back then did not have what we have now to preserve our lives unto eternity.


More groundless suppositions. Don't believe the linear history being thought you; who said the common man did not have what we have now - perhaps they had even more?


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Yes, there are gaps in our understanding.


Gaps in our understanding? The only thing any consious being can truely know is that it exists, anything beyond that all is bragging and foolishness.


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
What that the big message you wanted to bring here? It's not exactly groundbreaking, if so.


My message is "What if". The consequences would be groundbreaking enough.


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Think for yourselves? That has been the rallying cry of Scholars and Intellectuals throughout history.


What scholars and Intellectuals said that one should think for one self?

-MM

edit on 29-6-2015 by MerkabaMeditation because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 03:35 PM
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a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

What if questions have no specific answers....only individual opinions....



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 03:46 PM
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a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

1) Don't ever, ever pretend to know what my thought processes are.
2) You speak a WHOLE lot of empty words and make grand motions about how everything wrong, and YOU'RE the once asking ME for sources? Hah.
3) You want me to prove men back in antiquity didn't have the internet? Okay.
4)


Gaps in our understanding? The only thing any consious being can truely know is that it exists, anything beyond that all is bragging and foolishness.

Don't pretend you're some great philosopher. The whole "The only thing we know for certain is that we know nothing" is a long-standing tenet of most philosophical circles, and you bringing it up here only proves how sophomoric your understanding of a) History and b) Philosophy.
5) You're asking "What if?" HOW REVOLUTIONARY!
6) What scholars and intellectuals have told people to think for themselves? Nearly every great one, and tons of mediocre ones. Do you honestly want to me cite every single instance of a scholar saying such? I have neither the time, nor the desire to pander to your petty game. Oh, here's a good one for you. "Search for yourself!" It's all over the internet. Oh, wait, the whole internet is lying to you, I forgot.

Look, sprinkles. You're not any smarter than any of us, and your insistence that we "have it wrong" and that you, by virtue of asking "What if" as if it's some groundbreaking question and then talking down to us like we're twelve is not only insulting, it's downright moronic.

Have fun with your false sense of superiority. Remember to attend Philosophy 101.



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 03:46 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Then don't buy it. What about Herodotus? Or are his writings more fantasy? He thought they belonged to Khufu. Though his information was third-hand stories.


What about it? The oldest source we have for the writing of Herodotus is a 11th century AD copy. The original once again "lost".


originally posted by: Shamrock6
I don't disagree that the elements of proof that it's Khufu's tomb is circumstantial at best. Don't disagree at all. What I do disagree with is your assertion that it's taught as "cold hard fact, no debate allowed." And that is, to be blunt, utter crap. The debate goes on to this very day. The findings are couched in qualified statements like "believed to be." And you're ignoring that, and it appears that it's intentional.


You can "believe" what you want, but don't go teaching our kids your "faith" as fact.


originally posted by: Shamrock6
So, at the end of the day, it appears that you're railing against something that isn't actually happening. Even my 1st grader's books about ancient Egypt includes the "thought to be" terminology.

As for the what if? Well, show me how millions of people can pull this off and then maybe we can talk about it. "The best way to keep a secret is to tell no one.
The second best is to tell one person. There is no third option." And that's why the idea that thousands or millions of people have pulled this off is, frankly, preposterous.


The best way to keep a secret is to tell everyone a lie and repeat it until everyone believes it is a fact.

-MM
edit on 29-6-2015 by MerkabaMeditation because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 03:55 PM
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originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

What if questions have no specific answers....only individual opinions....


A man wanders into the desert where he meets a sage staring down a small rabbit hole. The man asks, "Tell me, Sage. What is down the hole?" The sage looks at him and says, "Whatever you want there to be". Curious, the man sticks his hand down the hole hoping to find gold, but is bitten by a snake. Before he dies, the man cries out to the sage saying, "I believed there was gold but I found a snake and it killed me, how can this be?" The sage replied, "While you may have thought it was gold in the hole, I always thought there was a snake".

-MM

edit on 29-6-2015 by MerkabaMeditation because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 03:56 PM
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it is the victors who write the history books
a reply to: boymonkey74

and liars.



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation
1) Don't ever, ever pretend to know what my thought processes are.


I don't purpose to pretend.


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
2) You speak a WHOLE lot of empty words and make grand motions about how everything wrong, and YOU'RE the once asking ME for sources? Hah.
3) You want me to prove men back in antiquity didn't have the internet? Okay.


It is called a discussion, and you are in an Discussion Forum. If you only want to exclaim I suggest you rather get a blog or open a Twitter account, I hear those are great for that.


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Gaps in our understanding? The only thing any consious being can truely know is that it exists, anything beyond that all is bragging and foolishness.



originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Don't pretend you're some great philosopher. The whole "The only thing we know for certain is that we know nothing" is a long-standing tenet of most philosophical circles, and you bringing it up here only proves how sophomoric your understanding of a) History and b) Philosophy.


I AM a great philosopher, I'm not pretending at all - did you think I was?


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
5) You're asking "What if?" HOW REVOLUTIONARY!


Thank you



originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
6) What scholars and intellectuals have told people to think for themselves? Nearly every great one, and tons of mediocre ones. Do you honestly want to me cite every single instance of a scholar saying such? I have neither the time, nor the desire to pander to your petty game. Oh, here's a good one for you. "Search for yourself!" It's all over the internet. Oh, wait, the whole internet is lying to you, I forgot.


Still, you can not find a single one that said people should think for themselves?


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Look, sprinkles. You're not any smarter than any of us,


And just when did I say I was smarter than you?


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
and your insistence that we "have it wrong" and that you, by virtue of asking "What if" as if it's some groundbreaking question and then talking down to us like we're twelve is not only insulting, it's downright moronic.


Well, you were naughty so you needed a little intellectual spanking, so to say



originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

Have fun with your false sense of superiority. Remember to attend Philosophy 101.




-MM



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Right. Because there's absolutely no study going on in, for example, Egyptology. So the lie is set, and since there's definitely no continuing study, there's no way the lie would ever be discovered. That, or all the Egyptologists are in on it but just really good secret keepers.

You realize how absurd that is, don't you? No, never mind. That answer is in plain evidence.

You could be a pal and save everybody some time by just saying "pics or it didn't happen" over and over.



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: ScientificRailgun

"I regret that I have but one star to give this."

- Shamrock6



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 04:22 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Right. Because there's absolutely no study going on in, for example, Egyptology. So the lie is set, and since there's definitely no continuing study, there's no way the lie would ever be discovered. That, or all the Egyptologists are in on it but just really good secret keepers.

You realize how absurd that is, don't you? No, never mind. That answer is in plain evidence.

You could be a pal and save everybody some time by just saying "pics or it didn't happen" over and over.


First you need to know how archeology works; if something does not fit the paradigm it is rejected before it is studied. An example is the Ancient Egyptians own list of pharaohs which goes back hundreds of thousands of years, but since it did not fit the Christian history (where the Earth was a mere 6,000 years old) at the time the written kings lineage was classified as myth and thus disregarded.

-MM

edit on 29-6-2015 by MerkabaMeditation because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-6-2015 by MerkabaMeditation because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 04:41 PM
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originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation
1) Don't ever, ever pretend to know what my thought processes are.


I don't purpose to pretend.


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
2) You speak a WHOLE lot of empty words and make grand motions about how everything wrong, and YOU'RE the once asking ME for sources? Hah.
3) You want me to prove men back in antiquity didn't have the internet? Okay.


It is called a discussion, and you are in an Discussion Forum. If you only want to exclaim I suggest you rather get a blog or open a Twitter account, I hear those are great for that.


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Gaps in our understanding? The only thing any consious being can truely know is that it exists, anything beyond that all is bragging and foolishness.



originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Don't pretend you're some great philosopher. The whole "The only thing we know for certain is that we know nothing" is a long-standing tenet of most philosophical circles, and you bringing it up here only proves how sophomoric your understanding of a) History and b) Philosophy.


I AM a great philosopher, I'm not pretending at all - did you think I was?


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
5) You're asking "What if?" HOW REVOLUTIONARY!


Thank you



originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
6) What scholars and intellectuals have told people to think for themselves? Nearly every great one, and tons of mediocre ones. Do you honestly want to me cite every single instance of a scholar saying such? I have neither the time, nor the desire to pander to your petty game. Oh, here's a good one for you. "Search for yourself!" It's all over the internet. Oh, wait, the whole internet is lying to you, I forgot.


Still, you can not find a single one that said people should think for themselves?


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Look, sprinkles. You're not any smarter than any of us,


And just when did I say I was smarter than you?


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
and your insistence that we "have it wrong" and that you, by virtue of asking "What if" as if it's some groundbreaking question and then talking down to us like we're twelve is not only insulting, it's downright moronic.


Well, you were naughty so you needed a little intellectual spanking, so to say



originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

Have fun with your false sense of superiority. Remember to attend Philosophy 101.




-MM





I AM a great philosopher, I'm not pretending at all - did you think I was?


Annnd opinion discarded. The Great Philosophers of our time never had the hubris to claim they were great philosophers. Besides, how do you KNOW you're a great philosopher? You know nothing. You yourself said that.




The only thing any consious being can truely know is that it exists, anything beyond that all is bragging and foolishness.


Guess you're just a foolish braggart.

Take care sunshine, enjoy your high horse, hope the fall doesn't hurt too badly.

Railgun OUT.


edit on 29-6-2015 by ScientificRailgun because: Had to.



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 04:52 PM
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OP, I'd like to know what your opinion is in the alternate history.

It's easy to point out the gaps in our current model without showing another thesis in return... We have a valid model, a model with proof, physical evidence, architecture, maps , books, burial grounds, etc.

Some of them may not connect with our understanding of the world, but, this things take time... There's much to discover here on earth and beyond, however, the proof we have created this model and it is more accurate than what you propose.


So, what facts do you have to discredit ages and ages of heritage? I'm really interested in your alternative... Just pure curiosity.
edit on th15MondayMondaypmMon, 29 Jun 2015 16:52:28 -0500 by Syllar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 04:58 PM
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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Don't pretend you're some great philosopher. The whole "The only thing we know for certain is that we know nothing" is a long-standing tenet of most philosophical circles, and you bringing it up here only proves how sophomoric your understanding of a) History and b) Philosophy.


And you pretend to be a peer that can judge who is and who is not a great philosopher.


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Annnd opinion discarded. The Great Philosophers of our time never had the hubris to claim they were great philosophers. Besides, how do you KNOW you're a great philosopher? You know nothing. You yourself said that.


Did you know these great philosophers that you speak of? Are you an expert on their hubris? Who are these great philosophers? Perhaps you should read "The Tragedy of Socrates"?


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Guess you're just a foolish braggart.


No, now it is you who is the foolish one.


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

Take care sunshine, enjoy your high horse, hope the fall doesn't hurt too badly.


I drive a car.


originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

Railgun OUT.



Bye Felicia. You voice was never louder than a fish at the seashore and nothing like the roar of the waves where I trained my oratory.

-MM

edit on 29-6-2015 by MerkabaMeditation because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-6-2015 by MerkabaMeditation because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: Syllar
We have a valid model, a model with proof, physical evidence, architecture, maps , books, burial grounds, etc.


No, we don't.

Give me some historic "fact" and I will try to deconstruct it by mainly attacking its provenance. I'm going offline now but will pop in tomorrow, ok? See you.

-MM



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 05:13 PM
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a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Ok, for the sake of argument i'll assume your right... Do you consider an alternate history? Or are you here just to deconstruct?


For a change, I'd like to see you construct a theory. You have ti'll tomorrow.



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 05:17 PM
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originally posted by: Syllar
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Ok, for the sake of argument i'll assume your right... Do you consider an alternate history? Or are you here just to deconstruct?


For a change, I'd like to see you construct a theory. You have ti'll tomorrow.


I don't proclaim any new facts to you but only to challenge the existing - sometimes ones purpose is to destroy what exists and not to create – but then again one must destroy to make space for new ideas. My wish is for you to think for yourself, research long standing "facts", and ask what if. What if I am right? Could you take it?

-MM



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 09:24 PM
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a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

A glass marble thrown into a brick wall shatters into a thousand plus tiny pieces. Where did the marble go?

It is still there...a marble. Only now...it is in a different form. Yet still, a marble.

Reality changed...yet still the same. Both are one...one is now both...both the thousand shards....and a marble.

One




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