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An Indus valley community within Sumeria

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posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 10:01 AM
There is a recent paper which looks at the evidence for a community of Indus valley people within Sumeria proper, identified as the Meluhhans which it is generally agreed constituted the Sumerian identification of those people. has been concluded that the two temples which have often been associated with the Meluhhan village in Ur III Girsu, are namely those of the gods Nanše and Nin-mar however, these temples, especially the one of Ninmar , have also been associated with the place of Gu-abba in earlier periods.

Guabba, the Meluhhan village in Mespotamia

The paper looks at their connection to two Temples those of Nanse and Nin-mar the latter of which seems the most prevalent in connection to the Gu-abba shrine of the Nimtar Temple, there was a Meluhhan garden there with flower and fauna of the sub-continent including a multi-coloured bird possibly a peacock, Meluhhan granaries and such forth, it appears to have been a quite sizeable community;

In one text 4272 women and 1800 children from Guabba are listed as being in the weaving industry.

It still has to be determined why the largest group of weavers are to be found here, but if Guabba was indeed a Meluhhan village then one could speculate that this group could have been ancestors of a distant group which diffused into this area, bringing their skills of textiles into the region or being used as cheap labour.

There seems confusion as to whether this was a village or Temple community and i want to look at that and also indicate were this was located, as well as looking at the implications for religious development in Southern Mesopotamia.

The term Gu-abba simply meant on the shore and that's were the shrine was located as part of the E-ab-šaga-la complex

O E-ab-šaga-la (House which stretches over the midst of the sea)built in a holy place, Gu-aba, your interior produces everything and is a well-established storehouse. Holy shrine, wild cow for which everything endures.

Born in the flood of the sea, like her father a controller of the pure sea,holy has erected a house in your precinct, O house Gu-aba, and taken her seat upon your dais.

Not surprisingly then as a seafaring and trading people the Meluhhans were closely connected to the Temple on the sea shore which was related to the Mother Goddess Nin-mar /Ninmah/Nin-mar-ki/Nin-tur.

The location of this Temple of Nin-mar-ki was as a part of the city of Nigin or conventionally NINA which was in the state of Lagash, primarily this was the city of the Goddess Nanse but also contained the Temple cult of Nim-tar as both are mentioned in connection;

There is a city, there is a city whose powers are apparent. Niĝin is the city whose powers are apparent. The holy city is the city whose powers are apparent. The mountain rising from the water is the city whose powers are apparent. Its light rises over the secure temple; its fate is determined. There is perfection in the city; the rites of Mother Nanše are performed accordingly.

Nanse, the noble daughter, was settled outside the city. Fire approached Ninmarki in the shrine Gu-aba. Large boats were carrying off its silver and lapis lazuli. The lady, sacred Ninmarki, was despondent because of her perished goods. Then the day burning like fire, the province of Lagash was handed over to Elam…

There is a dedication which mentions Nin-mar as For the goddess Nin-mar-ki the good lady, the eldest daughter of the goddess Niná, but i think that just shows her relationship to the City of Nigin/Nina were Nina is the personification of the City, and thus suggesting that the cult is the oldest of that City, it might also be considered that Nin-mar was brought to Sumeria by the Meluhhans as there is the counter creation myth were it is she who creates the first humans in conjunction with Enki in Enki and Ninmah, were Ninmaḫ took clay from the top of the abzu in her hand and she fashioned from it first a man...

I have looked previously at the curious Dilmun seals which appear to show a forst man and woman couple in connection with the Fish sign in images of Adam and Eve discovered in Paradise, which i consider to trace back to Indus valley civilization in connection with The Fish that swam in the Great Bath.

It's likely then that the same connection is also seen at Nigin derivative of Meluhhan influence were the sign for the City is the Fish symbol of the Goddess Nanse seen within the symbol for shrine, she was the Goddess of fishermen and mermaids and wore a dress of shining silver fishes.

Both Goddesses of Nign were seen as closely related to Enki, Nanse in her shrine Sirar was seen as his daughter while Nin-mar as the daughter of Nammu Goddess of the waters was something of a co-creatrix.

Enki placed his daughter Nanse in charge of the shrine Sirara because it sat over the wide extent of the marsh and she had influence over the high flood of subterranean waters. Nanse was known as 'she who sets sail', and 'she who induces sexual intercourse'. She was her father's daughter.

Anyway the good news in all of this is that excavations at the site of Nigin modern Tell Surghul are currently ongoing with preliminary excavations having taken place form January to February earlier this year and it would be great if they could find a Meluhhan quarter of that city and the Temples, as this also might provide the means to translate Indus valley script through bi-lingual inscriptions, as there were translators between the Meluhhan language and the Sumerian and Akkadian.

The first excavations of the Italian Archaeological Expedition in 2015 showed that the history of site is more ancient and dates back to the V millennium BC, in the Ubaid Period, with an impotent and large settlement in the IV millennium BC in the Late Uruk Period.

Tell Surghul was first noted by E. De Sarzec, who in his Decouvertes en Chaldée (1844) gives a brief description of the ruins and hills of the site. The site was then visited by W. H. Ward in 1885: he described the main hill in a more accurate way, which he interpreted as a ziqqurat, since the still visible line of a platform near the top of the mound. He also described the second mound, a large cemetery area and few objects bought from the local people

The Italian Archaeological Expedition to Tell Surghul, ancient Nigin.

Early finds from Nigin

edit on Kam630179vAmerica/ChicagoMonday2930 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 03:01 PM
I think you're too good for this website
I am probably one of the very few that can follow your work
I will write a full response later, you deserve the time that will take

posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 04:19 PM
a reply to: Marduk

Yes maybe you're right in this case that it does require more than your average interest in all things Sumerian to follow, but the site under excavation Nigin will be widely acclaimed if it turns up evidence for Meluhhans/Harappans, which it should, but anyway i look forward to your response.

It's interesting that they hit on 5th millenium Bc finds right away at this site.

...this architectural feature suggests that the exposed mud-bricks structures might belong to a sacred building, a hypothesis confirmed by the discovery of at least five censers on the floor that find a perfect comparison with the censers recovered in Temple VI of Eridu, dated to the same Ubaid period.

Looks like there is five thousand years of city there waiting to be excavated, it seems first to have been established directly on the coast, even by the 3rd millenium the coast had moved some distance away from Nigin.

When it comes to really specialist information on the likes of the cult of Nanse at Ningin take a look at this compiled from 1800 administrative texts!

edit on Kpm630179vAmerica/ChicagoMonday2930 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 04:36 AM
Thank you for doing the research and posting.

I personally find this very interesting. Bookmarked for future reference.

posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 05:12 AM
a reply to: SLAYER69

Thanks, the excavations at Nigin do have the potential to be significant with regards to the known trade contact dating back as far as the 5th millenium between Harappan and Mesopotamian culture, it surprised me that archaeologists hadn't quite joined the dots between the Meluhhan community and the known temple complex of Gu-abba at Nigin.

The city being a trading colony was noted for it's storehouses and interestingly that's one of the first things recent excavations hit upon dating to the 5th millenium Bc.

Of course also given Indus valley script cannot yet be translated there is the potential for finding bi-lingual translations at Nigin, it is also the case as a result that all of Indus valley history and mythology from the recorded perspective is completely unknown, the site offers the potential to find record of their beliefs even if recorded in cuneform.

Even more intriguing for myself is that given the storehouses the city Goddess Nanse was seen as the principle of social welfare through distribution from such, in many ways her cult was that of Proto-Christian values.

Nanse has two major symbols, both of which are also seen in Christian folklore. The fish represents her original role as a water and fishing goddess. The pelican, said in folklore to rip open its own chest to feed its young, represents her role as a protector and caregiver.

She is concerned for the orphan and concerned for the widow. She does not forget the man who helps others, she is a mother for the orphan; Nance, a carer for the widow, who always finds advice for the debt-slave; the lady who gives protection for refugees. She seeks out a place for the weak. She swells his collecting basket for him; she makes his collecting vessel profitable for him. For the righteous maiden who has taken her path, Nance chooses a young man of means. Nance raises a secure house like a roof over the widow who could not remarry

Her husband was a tax collector who thus provided the means to support her social welfare programme, so really there's nothing i'd like to see excavated more than Nanse's house at Nigin.

Our lady Nanse, a great storm, a mighty flood,
Born on the shore of the sea,
Who laughs on the foam of the sea,
Who plays on the water of the flood.

Time is pressing, my fish! Just you come to me!
Time is pressing! Just you come to me!
Nanse, the queen of the fishermen,
will be delighted with you.

edit on Kam630180vAmerica/ChicagoTuesday3030 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

edit on Kam630180vAmerica/ChicagoTuesday3030 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

edit on Kam630180vAmerica/ChicagoTuesday3030 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 12:18 PM
a reply to: Kantzveldt
Nice work as always Kantzveldt,
it is pretty clear there is at least a trade connection between Dilmun and the coastal Harrapans.
The Dravidian traders got around quite well for their day and it is likely that the coastal and northeastern sumerians and the proto elamites have a Dravidian ancestry.
I also feel that the proto caananite cities of the coastal Levant were Dravidian/Harrapan trade outposts, that later came to house the Minoan traders.

It would fantastic if a translation of IDV script was found in a Sumerian text.

posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 12:28 PM

originally posted by: Marduk
I think you're too good for this website
I am probably one of the very few that can follow your work
I will write a full response later, you deserve the time that will take

Yes she is!

Such gratitude I have for Kantzveldt's presence on ATS, a wealth of ancient history and knowledge..

Thanks again for another great read Kantzveldt, you deserve unlimited stars, here's the best I can do..


posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 01:31 PM
So is this evidence that Hinduism (in whatever early form), is as old as Sumeria? I heard there was pictures of The Hindu God named "Shiva" in the Indus Valley...
edit on 30-6-2015 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 01:53 PM
a reply to: punkinworks10

It seems to be the case that there was ongoing trade and possibly the establishment of a trading base at Nigin from the 5th millenium onwards, materials from the Indus valley such as shelL being found even in Jemdet Nasr period Uruk, that's a couple of thousand years before Dilmun was known to have been founded, which seems to have been something of a hybrid cultural outpost.

I obviously have high hopes for Nigin because that was were material from the sub-continent continued to make it's way into Eastern Mesopotamia, Gudea improved upon the canal system from Nigin to Girsu the Id-Nigin-dua in constructing his Temple which used wood from Meluhha, and also improved/re-established the connection to the sea due to coastal drift.

If the Indus valley people initially just made their way up along the Iranian coast Nigin would have been their first point of contact with Ubaid culture.

a reply to: Elementalist

Thanks you''re very kind, there's a lot of good research out there that just needs bringing to attention and it's a shame if people only get to see the silly and exploitative versions in general interest forums.

a reply to: arpgme

Some elements will certainly be present in Indus valley culture but there were other cultures on the sub-continent that would also have provided input, there are always of course regional differences and emphasis in Hinduism which was never under any central authority .

edit on Kpm630180vAmerica/ChicagoTuesday3030 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 9 2015 @ 05:02 AM
Nanse, and the aviary.

The pelican came forth from the holy reed-beds. It came forth from the holy reed-beds. The wise pelican spent the day high in the skies. The pelican cried out in the sky: its singing was sweet and its voice was pleasing, She herself Nanse descended upon the water like a large pelican.

I am the mistress, so let my birds assemble for me where the sheaves are gathered! I am Nanse, so let my birds assemble for me where the sheaves are gathered! Let the birds of heaven and earth stand at my service!

Nanse and the birds

Voyage to the bottom of the Apsu.

Reed-bed of Sîn, reed of Magan, Sîn my lord pull out your reed-mat!
May the strong-one go down the midst of the Apsû!
The Fisherman is catching a fish: Why has he cut the reed-thicket until the Apsû?
I ran and I reached the fish — It ran but did not reach me!
Nazi is the stewardess of Ningal, by the command of Nazi the stewardess of Ningal:
May it the fish come out to me, may the fish of the marsh come out to me!

Incantation formula …

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