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Greek Banks Get Shut Down For A Week And A ‘Grexit’ Is Now Probable

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posted on Jul, 5 2015 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
And you think all of the factors I pointed out will not influence Bitcoins? Money is money whether it is colored rocks or it takes some unbacked electronic form.


Bitcoin is free of a lot of influence because the power to regulate it is taken out of the hands of nations. A nation using Bitcoins is as helpless to devalue the currency as Greece is right now with the Euro.

Bitcoins are much more analogous to a non renewable resource than a currency. Due to the way they're created there's a finite number of them in existence and there will always be a finite number. Buying and selling in bitcoins is like buying and selling in shares of gold or oil which is also finite but has increasing supply until it peaks.




posted on Jul, 5 2015 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Bitcoin........OK guys TPTB control the currencies and the laws governing them.......Bitcoin is at the whims of TPTB if they wanted to ban them they could. That is why it is kinda like gambling and you could win or lose.



If times get really hard or Bitcoins gain real traction they will ban them to save the system already in place......Do I agree with using fiat currencies backed by nothing other than faith......NO.
edit on 5-7-2015 by SubTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2015 @ 03:19 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

Bitcoins are much more analogous to a non renewable resource than a currency. Due to the way they're created there's a finite number of them in existence and there will always be a finite number. Buying and selling in bitcoins is like buying and selling in shares of gold or oil which is also finite but has increasing supply until it peaks.


There is a finite amount of ALL money and the factors I mentioned earlier affect all types of currency including Bitcoins to one degree or another.



posted on Jul, 5 2015 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: Aazadan

Bitcoin........OK guys TPTB control the currencies and the laws governing them.......Bitcoin is at the whims of TPTB if they wanted to ban them they could. That is why it is kinda like gambling and you could win or lose.



If times get really hard or Bitcoins gain real traction they will ban them to save the system already in place......Do I agree with using fiat currencies backed by nothing other than faith......NO.


They can ban any currency. The US government banned gold for 30 years, China has banned certain currencies, and the US has effectively banned everything other than the USD by mandating taxes must be paid in USD.


originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
There is a finite amount of ALL money and the factors I mentioned earlier affect all types of currency including Bitcoins to one degree or another.


Bitcoin still has issues but other than outright banning it a government has little control over Bitcoin and that's what's so good about it. It moves the control of money outside the hands of any specific government.



posted on Jul, 5 2015 @ 03:33 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

Bitcoin still has issues but other than outright banning it a government has little control over Bitcoin and that's what's so good about it. It moves the control of money outside the hands of any specific government.


Government is not involved with several of the influencers I mentioned. Money is money and market dynamics will cause it to behave a certain way regardless from what it is constituted.



posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 01:01 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

How money supply is managed is very critical to the health of a nation. Having money based on debt does allow for a very targeted application of funds to meet the demands of society.

Looking at Greece as a client, it is a big risk so big interest to cover this risk. The people just voted no, so looks like that risk is realised. Credit quality is poor, government spending is strained and breaking, private spending is declining. All signs that cash flow is inadequate.

The ECB and Germany has been going all over Greeces books for the last few years. The ECB even put in their own prime minister into Greece at one stage to help fix up any internal problems that existed. Considering the rubber glove treatment Greece has received with its budgets and accounts recently, I do put more of the responsibility into the hands of the European Union than with Greece.



posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 06:22 AM
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originally posted by: kwakakev
Considering the rubber glove treatment Greece has received with its budgets and accounts recently, I do put more of the responsibility into the hands of the European Union than with Greece.


More of a responsibility for what? Taking the money?



posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 07:51 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

More of a responsibility for the economic mess of Greece and the others that are following.

Looking back in history things have gotten messy and confusing when there are too many competing currencies. But as events are showing there are just too many competing forces to centralise all currency management.



posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 08:03 AM
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originally posted by: kwakakev
More of a responsibility for the economic mess of Greece and the others that are following.


How did the other European countries force Greece to make horrendous economic and social policy decisions?


Looking back in history things have gotten messy and confusing when there are too many competing currencies. But as events are showing there are just too many competing forces to centralise all currency management.


There are not competing currencies for the Greeks, they use the Euro and have for some time. Regardless, there unsustainable policies operate outside of whatever currency they happen to be using.



posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 08:09 AM
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I don't think it's inevitable that Greece will leave the Euro.
However, I was pretty certain that it would be a Yes vote, so what the hell do I know? lol

Either way, Greece is going to be struggling for a long time to come, and I don't think the banks are going to be anywhere near back to normal for several months yet.

The problem is that this was a no win situation. If they said yes then they would face austerity for several years, but they would at least have some security and confidence in the future.
Voting no basically sends them into uncharted territory, and means they're more likely to be out on their own, and probably struggling for a lot longer, and with a harsher impact on society than there would have been.

The BBC has already reported on several businesses already laying off staff because of the uncertainty, tourists not sure how they will cope as they're hearing hotels are running out of supplies and staff are being made redundant, local supermarkets are going to be struggling to get stock in this week, or knowing what to stock based on what they think the locals will be buying.

There are more ramifications to this than the average no voter understood, and I have a feeling a lot of them will be changing their minds and then blaming the government when they can't pay their bills or buy food from the business that's now shut down in their neighborhood.

This is the problem with having a referendum on this subject. It might be praised as being truly democratic, but the people sometimes make incredibly stupid decisions because they don't know enough about the consequences. Then those same people will assemble in the streets to blame the government for the decision they themselves made based on little intelligence or foresight.



posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 08:32 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus



How did the other European countries force Greece to make horrendous economic and social policy decisions?


It is the EU decision making process more than the other countries directly, but how the different cultural systems are handled financially has been a very challenging and one sided process. The EU is the parent body of Greece once Greece join the EU. As such the EU has been dictating terms rather than finding a fair balance.

The world did not come with a rule book on how money works, we just make it up as we go along. Despite what ever terms or agreements may have been made, these terms must still amount to a 'fair trade' to be legal.



posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 08:37 AM
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a reply to: Rocker2013

Greece will get through and recover, it has seen worst. In a few years it could turn out like Iceland, where things are now a lot better after cleaning up the banks.



posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 08:57 AM
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a reply to: kwakakev

Greece was making poor fiscal and social policy decisions long before joining the European Union, that is why they are in this mess.

I have no idea what you are trying to imply with your second paragraph.



posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 09:38 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

With the second paragraph I am implying that there must be a better way to make money work. The interest and profit gouging that currently goes on just to get one new dollar into the system needs a new overhaul. Governments have been the ones left to pick up the tab for a while.

Seeing some of the division, divide and stale mates going on at the IMF, the world does need a more fairer and updated macroeconomic framework.



posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 09:41 AM
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originally posted by: kwakakev
With the second paragraph I am implying that there must be a better way to make money work. The interest and profit gouging that currently goes on just to get one new dollar into the system needs a new overhaul. Governments have been the ones left to pick up the tab for a while.


Lending money carries risk, that risk is mitigated by interest. Unless you have a magic way to eliminate risk then interest is here to stay.


Seeing some of the division, divide and stale mates going on at the IMF, the world does need a more fairer and updated macroeconomic framework.


Such as?



posted on Jul, 6 2015 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

How China set up its own development bank to bypass the restrictive terms of IMF loans has been one issue. The progress of the SDR in trying to define a global currency unit is still an ongoing work in progress. Then there is all the military conflict through the Middle East and Eastern Europe adding to the international tensions. It is good to see there is a lot of collaboration and small steps being made by the G20 to keep the economy functional.

How the BRICS nations have been standing up to the Allied nations is something that needed to be done.

The magic of money is that it never existed before taking out that loan, well not these days anyway. It is your assurance to repay it that creates the asset that is traded.



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 06:26 AM
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originally posted by: kwakakev
How China set up its own development bank to bypass the restrictive terms of IMF loans has been one issue.


Does it still charge interest?


The progress of the SDR in trying to define a global currency unit is still an ongoing work in progress.


Will that eliminate interest?


The magic of money is that it never existed before taking out that loan, well not these days anyway. It is your assurance to repay it that creates the asset that is traded.


And? Borrowing money is a very necessary part of the economy and always has been.



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 07:40 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Indications with China's regional development bank is that it is moving towards more reasonable loan terms.

How I view the position of the SDR is that it currently the closest contender for some kind of standardised global currency unit. As such its main focus is on measuring the wealth of a specific currency and is not directly affected by interest rates or any other specific economic policies. What the SDR will do is allow for a level playing field and provide some back up as the world continues to experiment with various currency designs and implementations.

So with this money magic Greece can easily get Trillions, as long as it promises to pay it back. It does not matter the the ECB does not yet have this money, once the agreement is made the balance sheet justifies the creation of this new wealth. The ECB if it choose, could of refinanced Greece to a more manageable debt repayment plan. Even negative interest rates are an option to help manage risk and provide assurity for the loan.

Instead we have those that want to gamble with nations.


edit on 7-7-2015 by kwakakev because: grammer



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 07:51 AM
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originally posted by: kwakakev
Indications with China's regional development bank is that it is moving towards more reasonable loan terms.


So they still charge and will continue to charge interest, got it.


How I view the position of the SDR is that it currently the closest contender for some kind of standardised global currency unit. As such its main focus is on measuring the wealth of a specific currency and is not directly affected by interest rates or any other specific economic policies. What the SDR will do is allow for a level playing field and provide some back up as the world continues to experiment with various currency designs and implementations.


So it will not eliminate interest, got it.


So with this money magic Greece can easily get Trillions, as long as it promises to pay it back.


Greece cannot even pay back the billions it owes, why would they loan it an order of magnitude of money more?



posted on Jul, 7 2015 @ 08:07 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus



Greece cannot even pay back the billions it owes, why would they loan it an order of magnitude of money more?


It was just an example there is more than enough money available, but at what catch?



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