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stealth vs supercruise. and other weapons of wwiii

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posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

everything is easy when you know how.

even drones

(I've had my own fully autonomous model plane flown by an android phone and a Bluetooth ftdi chip for a few years now. autonomous heli is held back by crash damage and I prefer flying the working one by hand).

there's a ton of kit on the black market for breaking vrtually every piece of rf tech in existence (only real limits is range).

stealth on the other hand is really easy once the engine is quiet.

because you just have the drones making all the noise and fly your plane virtually silent.
edit on 29-6-2015 by devilmoon because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-6-2015 by devilmoon because: (no reason given)


f35 just recently completed its first test of that I think.
edit on 29-6-2015 by devilmoon because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: devilmoon

Then why hasn't anyone and embarrassed the hell out of the US by turning one against them? Oh wait, they're waiting until necessary, right?

Seriously? Engine noise now? You're not going to hear something going over at altitude.



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

same reason turing didn't want the Germans to know they cracked enigma. and went to such extraordinary lengths to keep it secret.

edit

not engine noise.
radio noise. the stuff haarm locks onto.

can't have a plane with active radar stealthy.

so you put the active radar on a drone and that relays the info to your stealthy plane.

main advantage if the fifth gen platforms. and what russia is retrofitting to its fourth gen.
edit on 29-6-2015 by devilmoon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: devilmoon




so they definately know more than they should. (given all that isn't even cleared for native English speakers without clearance aiui)


Or they don't and it is more of this...



And here is where you can read about the video and what it represents.

sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com...

Propaganda against the US is nothing new for the Chinese...so what makes one think this isn't just some more of their usual when it comes to the US?



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

it was discussing actual protocols. beyond that I can't possibly comment.



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 02:19 PM
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a reply to: devilmoon

Uhm, you're years behind on this too. The F-22 uses a dispersed radar system that is active, and almost impossible to detect even at short range. It's more accurate than existing radars as well.

No fifth generation plane does that. And the advantages are a lot more than that.
edit on 6/29/2015 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 02:22 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

except that is what the russian and Chinese radar upgrades target.

any emission is now detectable with current tech.

stuff I've been working on recently involves reading a room full of computers memory contents from a building away. by the cpu emissions.



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: devilmoon

Amazing. Everything the US can do Russia and China can do better. They've only been working on something for a few years? They're already better, despite the US having a 30+ year head start. And yet, they're building the exact same things the US has been fielding for years. Funny how that works.


edit on 6/29/2015 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/29/2015 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: devilmoon




it was discussing actual protocols. beyond that I can't possibly comment.


Just because you call them actual protocols doesn't mean it can't be propaganda aimed towards the US...China is old hat at that.

Just to let you know the man your trying to argue with probably knows more about US military planes than almost anyone here at ATS...And if he doesn't know it he has someone he can talk to that does.

SO what I am saying is good luck and I will enjoy this from the sidelines.



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 03:39 PM
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originally posted by: devilmoon
a reply to: Zaphod58

except that is what the russian and Chinese radar upgrades target.

any emission is now detectable with current tech.

stuff I've been working on recently involves reading a room full of computers memory contents from a building away. by the cpu emissions.


The new radar you are talking about in a ACTIVE EM warfare environment detedcts a F-22 withing 20 miles of it. Well withing range of its HAARM/AARAAM. F-22 can drop a glide bomb 60 miles out as well. So really a F-22 flying with full decoys,jamming,stealth and soon anti missile laser intercepter mounted on it(still up in the air so dont quote me on if being added) they will have a very tough time.

As for the PAK-fa/50. The Indians are not happy with it as it is.they even cut their orders.



posted on Jun, 29 2015 @ 11:44 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

well. I don't think it's quite at that point is it?

us has already been testing using the plane to drone comms with the rq170 sentinal. russia is still talking about putting a 10 ton combat drone in the air sometime in the next 5 years.

seems to be pretty much neck and neck. with bric countries waiting for the us to do all the r and d. then just reverse engineering what they did making it a little better in the process.

yes. it's dispersed over the drones flying with the plane.

edit on 29-6-2015 by devilmoon because: (no reason given)


@yuppa.
no haarm can't lock onto their radar systems. just the targeting system and by then it's probably already to late. russian chinese stayed with the less accurate but stealthy passive radar over the us accurate but sticks out like a sore thumb active radar.

which atm. if both sides launched means us would loose their anti air capability but russia wouldn't.
as I understand it isis is using russian sam systems to keep their positions and captured facilities mostly safe. no f22 lost as far as I know. but too many close calls.
edit on 30-6-2015 by devilmoon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 01:05 PM
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originally posted by: devilmoon
a reply to: Zaphod58

well. I don't think it's quite at that point is it?

us has already been testing using the plane to drone comms with the rq170 sentinal. russia is still talking about putting a 10 ton combat drone in the air sometime in the next 5 years.

seems to be pretty much neck and neck. with bric countries waiting for the us to do all the r and d. then just reverse engineering what they did making it a little better in the process.

yes. it's dispersed over the drones flying with the plane.


@yuppa.
no haarm can't lock onto their radar systems. just the targeting system and by then it's probably already to late. russian chinese stayed with the less accurate but stealthy passive radar over the us accurate but sticks out like a sore thumb active radar.

which atm. if both sides launched means us would loose their anti air capability but russia wouldn't.
as I understand it isis is using russian sam systems to keep their positions and captured facilities mostly safe. no f22 lost as far as I know. but too many close calls.


The newer US HAARM CAN seek on PAssive radars too. They upgraded them recently to also use IR,Images,and active/passive seeking. Look up the newer anti radiation missiles. They can also LOITER over the general area a little as well to hunt a target.



posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 01:54 PM
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Dont forget nanotech everything, and things like plasma still work at the nano level, I wonder if plasma stealth nanotech is possible as well as nuclear nanotech.



posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: devilmoon

seems to be pretty much neck and neck. with bric countries waiting for the us to do all the r and d. then just reverse engineering what they did making it a little better in the process.



sheer delusion but by all means keep hope alive....




if both sides launched means us would loose their anti air capability but russia wouldn't.
as I understand it isis is using russian sam systems to keep their positions and captured facilities mostly safe. no f22 lost as far as I know. but too many close calls.


you seem to like to make stuff up. where were those SAM systems when Abu Bakr al Baghdadi and Abu Alaa al-Afri needed them? oops.

"too many close calls" I had to lol. Like you know of any close calls.

Your propaganda check is in the mail.



posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 03:26 PM
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I think the possibility exists for all the superpowers to be hit with a "surprise".

It has been pointed out that China and Russia can quickly recreate our tech but basically end up deploying the same stuff as us before said and done.

What seems to be lacking is innovation in regards to "new technology" strategic "game changing" via creative thinking, sure Darpa gets a lot of money to look into these things but mainly the military seems very reluctant to break any paradigms or at the least the govt doesn't approve the spending when they do in any of the superpowers of the moment.

Drones/Robots...

They are under development the US could be said to have gotten "extensive" with them...

But for fun, i've crunched the numbers...

A Nation like Japan with a "war effort" could likely build with a six month pre development phase, 4-5 Million Drones in a year, factor in things like "swarming" technology and you could see a small high tech nation rise in a season to world dominance these days...

Stealth Vs Cruise? Tanks and Jets? Carrier Battle groups?

I say bahumbug to all

If I were a world leader of a modern nation... I'd be ALL about secretly converting old auto factories into Drone Factories mainly using robotic assembly lines to limit the number of people involved, if President, i'd be on a new "Manhattan project" of Robotics

I wouldn't want tanks... I'd want 5000 of the Robot Dogs off the assembly line per day... 1,825,000 per year or the largest Army in the world in one year. I'd want them to have fire power but be the ultimate terrorist since they aren't bright (yet) rigged to blow when they run into a tank or building. (If you think it's implausible remember America built 2,966,133 cars this year and that's private industry, China built over 14 Million)

I wouldn't want Jets I'd want Drones, and not the big ones with the fancy missiles as a mainstay, I'd want them the size of a go pro and I'd want them using swarming technology with light weapons... currently we are moving drones as jets but i say they are a better defensive play, if you put 5000 drones in the air and they can blow what missile could get through that swarm? If you attacked a Carrier how could you shoot so many small objects down? what would a city be like under attack by 50,000 or 500,000 small drones able to drop a 22 caliber shot or better nonlethal weapons sonic or directed energy etc? I'd want those off the assembly lines at 5 times the numbers of the harder to build dogs... 25,000 a day. Automated.

I wouldn't want ships I'd want small subs the size of a child's bathtub toy, small lasers maybe, rigged to of course like all explode if need be.... What is a 40 million Dollar Nuclear sub VS 20,000 Drone subs tracking it and swarming at it? It's a waste of money that's what it is...

If a nation like Japan can drop 9 Million Cars in a year.....

Think about it...

The think about how easy it would be to "innovate" (I'm using Japan only as an example) Japan has very small Hologram projectors that can make lights appear at a distance, sonic NLW's can be miniaturized very easy, stun guns have been around for years the same hologram projectors can make a fairly lethal laser, a small explosive charge on board maybe, of course a camera

Picture it... it's flying into a battle field in numbers way outnumbering any "army" as it approaches, the sound it is giving off is causing extreme distress maybe diarrhea or intense pain from a distance, it's projecting small holographic lights ahead of it making targeting for the human eye a nightmare and blinding what it picks up on motion detector, try to grab it you get an electric shock that makes you hit the floor and wet your pants, it flys way to low for anti aircraft of any kind, it's delivering live intel of the battle field and when it sees a target it can explode like a car bomb... and there are 500,000 of them coming as a swarm followed by 100,000 "dogs"

The details would be up to the experts of course...

But robots can be built in pretty massive numbers... again China knocks out 14 MILLION Cars per year and business is about creating jobs very often they aren't looking to "automate" entirely...

I'm talking about "skynet" the tech exists already and there are candidates, Japan, Israel, South Korea, any of a number of Northern European Nations any of the super powers.... but what i'm saying is, a small high tech nation could knock a super power on it's arse in a couple of short years if it was "innovative" enough... No one would have believed China's raw manufacturing power even a decade ago ( I know because I talked about it online and everyone scoffed) no one would have thought Sweeden would eclipse the US in education etc etc...

It's a new age... if someone breaks the paradigm of war they could end up a mega power and do it from a Nation so small no one would ever think...

There are swarming Drones the size of your hand, picture those carrying a dozen sugar cubes of Octanitrocubane or something of that nature... Imagine that, your 14 million Dollar stealth piece of junk colliding at 600 Mph with a drone the size of a pigeon packed with the equivalent of 6 sticks of dynamite that cost a Thousand bucks each to mass produce... or 500,000 of them, the cost of two or three of those fancy jets flying into your pretty city... or against your Carrier Battle group.

It's all about robotics and AI if you want to win the next war.



posted on Jun, 30 2015 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: criticalhit

All you would manage to do is have them break out nuclear weapons to end your country.



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 01:41 AM
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a reply to: yuppa

You're really not comprehending the kind of numbers robots building robots could produce.

How does one get a Missile through thousands of objects? Look at the speed of an ICBM and the force of it hitting a baseball sized object going even 40 miles an hr, no add small energy directed weapons to them... Now miniaturize them to the size of a watch and make the numbers Millions... Not doable? How many I phones were built this year?



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 03:58 AM
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a reply to: devilmoon

There was a Yahoo news report yesterday about the F-35 being beaten by the F-16 in turn and burn encounters. Better hope their much vaulted stealth works for if they have to go eye to eye or gun to gun with a determined foe they according to the report will be toast.
Of course once the article was posted the defenders of the F-35 came out of the woodwork ! To much money invested to face the prospect they have a lemon when compared to other 5th generation fighters or even the older F-16s in a turn and burn environment. One thing the F-35 will have is better electronics and support than any other 5th gen fighter at the moment. For their survivability let us all hope they only attack sand people in the middle of the night and are never jumped when RTB with no missiles available. I have not flown the F-35 so all I know is what I read... which comes in two basic brands; red white and blue (money to be made) or brown POS (those on the outside looking in as possible buyers).


WASHINGTON: Do dogfights matter in the age of tactical stealth? If an F-16 can outmaneuver an F-35 in a dogfight, does it matter? Does it matter if the earliest generation F-35 can’t outmaneuver an advanced model of the F-16 in an early test?

So many questions. We’ll try to answer them because the folks at War Is Boring got their hands on a hot document — an F-35 pilot’s evaluation of an early test of the F-35 against the F-16. Colleague David Axe got the scoop. Basically, the F-35 test pilot said the F-16 could outmaneuver the F-35 in most cases during a close engagement, or what most people would call a dogfight.

r.search.yahoo.com...=AwrTcdsEOpZVL_kA8rknnIlQ;_ylu=X3o'___'EzcGc5YnVwBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMzBHZ0aWQDRkZHRTAxXzEEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1435937413/RO= 10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fbreakingdefense.com%2f2015%2f07%2ff-16-vs-f-35-in-a-dogfight-jpo-air-force-weigh-in-on-whos-best%2f/RK=0/RS=zEb3mRqtc5hzLHzVgbsMSDh ljRQ-

Or you could search for Icebergs ahead for expensive US, UK aircraft carrier projects

Other news:


WOULDN’T trust Australia to build a canoe? Check out the problems the United States is having with its new $17bn aircraft carrier.

For $US17 billion a pop ($US13 billion if somebody else is paying for the research and development costs) you’d expect some big bangs for your buck.

In the case of the US Navy’s latest and most advanced supercarrier, the glossy brochure certainly makes the promises.

It’s 100,000 tonnes of awesome at 337m long and 78m wide. Inside the 25 decks hold some 4200 officers and sailors. Two nuclear reactors are intended to power this behemoth through the water at more than 30 nautical miles an hour (56km/h).


r.search.yahoo.com...=AwrSbgIrRZZVg1cAVS1XNyoA;_ylu=X3o'___'Exc3A2ZzRnBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDREZENl8xBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1435940268/RO= 10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.news.com.au%2ftechnology%2finnovation%2ficebergs-ahead-for-expensive-us-uk-aircraft-carrier-projects%2fstory-fnpjxnlk-122740534 4686/RK=0/RS=WOd_JTcbT5Op0JilgaW3NmfskOw-


Ten years later the ship’s ready. The electromagnetic catapult isn’t.

Apparently, it misfires. Exactly how often is somewhat confused: the US Navy does not seem keen to reveal the latest figures. According to defence industry sources, it’s either once in every 10 slings — or one in every 240.

If the catapult’s manufacturer can’t get it right soon the only other option is to cut the USS Ford open, rip it out — and rebuild the ship around the old-style system.


The article goes on to say the F-35 cannot use the flight deck (damage to deck in VTOL) and because the new arresting gear isn’t working older aircarft can not even use the deck for landing. Yah have to wonder who is in charge of this crap and how much "revolving door" between government and contractors is going on. Supposedly a new man has been put incharge of the program and he was quoted as saying he had never seen such a bad relationship between the contractor and a government program.

Now for the other side of the story Rah Rah etc etc



Some more on the F-35 which can't run and can't turn when compared to actual possible foes.
youtu.be...



posted on Jul, 3 2015 @ 04:39 AM
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a reply to: 727Sky

The old boy who worked on the design the F-16 and the warthog certainly thinks the F-35 is a bigger than a big mistake ! Advertising and top gun type slick videos does not make a fighter just good P.R.
youtu.be...





edit on 3-7-2015 by 727Sky because: a



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