stealth vs supercruise. and other weapons of wwiii

yey. I can create a thread!

so here's the basic posit.
everything I'm reading posted here about the way wwiii is being fought and the weapons being used in it seem totally backward to me.

this isn't a thread for weapons that havent shown any battlefield value or probably don't exist (lasers and anti grav engines for example)

first up is stealth vs supercruise.

or better put as
camouflage vs range and speed.

camouflage. imo is a well proven tech. well known by every military and doesn't have that much room for improvement from where we are. lcs fighter planes are now in mass production by every major military. and the polish pl01 and russian t99 tanks seems to lead the world in ground stealth technology.

good jet engines. on the other hand. seem to be causing a lot of problems. I'm not clear exactly where we are up to now. hence the thread.

furthermore
this thread is absolutely to discuss the current front line of wwiii. the raging cyber war. more on that later.

DM.

a reply to: devilmoon

Good jet engines aren't causing any problems. They've been available for decades.

Your last sentence hit the nail on the head. Cyber war, Mind war and random drone strikes, for shock value of course.

And as evidenced most recently with Russia, Economic warfare.

a reply to: devilmoon
Good, let the truth fest regarding what the 'lawmakers' really do begin! I am all for cyber truth wars where the opposing forces are only allowed to tell the truth about their opponent; that in itself is a great victory for mankind.

a reply to: Zaphod58

source or reason for that?

because the gao has nothing good to say about the one going in the f35.

www.gao.gov...

russians seem to be having a little bit more luck. rolling out production of the al41 series accross most of their existing planes with upgrades expected soon for 5th gen fighters. but that has hardly been trouble free.

Chinese seem be be relying on the russians for their power plants.

a reply to: devilmoon

So one engine, still in development proves your point? Wow.

The F119-PW-100 has had two Class A failures in over 300,000 flight hours. The mean time between failures is in the thousands of hours. The first engines are just reaching Depot overhaul, and are getting there without failure.

China has always relied on Russia for engines.

a reply to: Zaphod58

nice engine. but appears underpowered at 35,000lbf with afterburner compared to the al41 series 40,000lbf thrust without.

which I guess is why the f22 was cancelled.

IMO WW3 will be a silent war, no bombs, just complete destruction of a nation from within, going after the financial systems, and a silent take over of major corporations that control certain infastructure for a nation to survive or call itself a nation. the purchase of shipping companies, manufacturing companies, health, education, election process " and who is cherry picked and supported with corporations interest first. To be honest this has all already occurred, just the populus of the nation has been dumbed down, expressions left for a computer screen rather than a march to the capitol. We have been sold out. No need for a war with bombs.

a reply to: Glassbender777

that is all happening now. and it's not silent.

zues bot network is (at least technically) state sponsored and absolutely murdering the western banks.

a reply to: devilmoon

And yet it's operational, and far more reliable.

The F-22 was stopped where it was because of politics. It didn't have a damn thing to do with the engines. There's a lot more than engine power in making an advanced fighter.

That's also 35,000 per engine. The AL-41F1 for the T-50 is rated at 33,000 lbs.

a reply to: Zaphod58

the al41 series is operational and perfectly reliable.

most countries running the al31 engines have already or are in the process of upgrading auiu.

I'm not sure. but I think it's just the thrust vectoring they are not happy with.

what good is spending that much money on a plane that can already be out maneuvered and outrun by the Indian airforces staple plane? that's not politics it's plane common sense.

pretty sure that 33k figure is outdated.

a reply to: devilmoon

I just looked on the NPO Saturn website. The Project 117C Specs show just under 31,000 lbf in afterburner. The AL-41 is comparable to the F119, in all categories, including thrust rating. The new engine for the T-50, which would allow supercruise was scheduled to start testing this year and wouldn't be ready for production until 2020.

No Russian engines are "perfectly reliable". That comes from Russian pilots I've met. Several told me that in some aircraft they sit on the end of the runway at full power for two minutes. If all their engines read OK during that time, they took off.

They've improved since then, but you don't go from that, to "perfectly reliable" in a few years. It takes time.

a reply to: Zaphod58
current production is al41F
www.leteckemotory.cz...

cites 176kn
180kn is 40,000lbf

a reply to: Zaphod58

just spent the last hour reading.

and I've come to the conclusion that they had f22 spec engines 5 years ago. and have spent the last 5 years upgrading it up to f35 spec.

depending what has happened with this:

m.indiatvnews.com...

edit

with the main complaint seaming to be

m.aviationweek.com...

russia went ahead and built it without them.

a reply to: devilmoon

The Product 30 engine was designed for 171.5 kn in afterburner, and 117 kn dry.

a reply to: devilmoon

No, the engines are in testing this year. They're not up to the F135 standards. They're in the 40,000 lb range in afterburner. As is the AL-41.

a reply to: Zaphod58

fair enough. so basic conclusion is its basically balanced?

do you agree engine is more important but harder than stealth?

what about the drone platform thing.

definately a cool idea to have drones carrying most of the payload. can't see the technical challenges of that holding either side up.

but loosing the f35 plans definately makes the latest risky for the us.

no fun to get shot down by your own drone after it gets hacked while you are flying with it over enemy airspace.


hmm mm

wonder if that's how the Iranians did it?

a reply to: devilmoon

The Iranians didn't hack the Sentinel. The GPS hole that existed at the time was exploited causing it to crash land in the desert. That exploit has since been closed. That was spoofing, not hacking. There are also no air to air UAVs capable of shooting down another aircraft.

They didn't lose the F-35 plans. They lost data on the radar and engine, not the plans to the aircraft. Repeating it over and over doesn't make it true.

There is more to stealth than just the skin. The skin itself is difficult, but the complete package is very difficult. Engines are hard, but a complete stealth package is harder.

a reply to: Zaphod58

they got lot more than that according to

www.spiegel.de...

(that says space based laser....) maybe that should be included....

all the module data I suppose includes the comms spec for the drones.

plus I've seen a lot of talk elsewhere about how to hack them. so they definately know more than they should. (given all that isn't even cleared for native English speakers without clearance aiui)

a reply to: devilmoon

As far as the F-35, no they didn't.

"I suppose". There wasn't anything there about communications, or UAVs.

Hacking a UAV isn't that easy.