Roberts Warns Churches Could Lose Tax-Exempt Status For Opposing Gay Marriage

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: ketsuko
When you get right down to it, the income tax is unconstitutional. If it wasn't, they wouldn't have had to pass an Amendment for it.

Adding an amendment is the very definition of making something constitutional.

I knew someone would say that, but the point is that it wasn't until they passed the amendment. At least twice before, such taxes had been taken to SCOTUS with a mixed history and they were always finite.

Tax exempt status for religion institutions goes back as far as Mesopotamian cultures. You might almost say it's as old as marriage itself.

a reply to: ketsuko

Government only wants to help.

They want to help you see that you're wrong thinking. It isn't against the Constitution. If you just think correctly, then you get your tax exemption.

If you think incorrectly, then you don't.

See?

It's not the fault of government if you fail to make the right choice!

It's actually your fault.

a reply to: beezzer

We need to be free to do what we want! Marry who we want! it doesnt matter

And we will repress your religious rights as much as it takes so that we have our rights! (or your a muslim church)

In the name of the constitution!

And diversity! (as long as you think like we do)

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: imitator

Sirry dude look at the stats the millennials are rejecting religion at a staggering rate in the usa because religions being so out of date.
When they get older they will show their kids why and religion will drop off.
Happening in many western countries.

Luckily the younger generation understands the importance of tolerance.

Too many churches have been teaching intolerance for too long and they're losing the younger crowds, fortunately.

When your message is "everyone who's different is going to hell and/or out to get you because... the devil and stuff," you can't possibly hope to stick around long in the modern world.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: beezzer

We need to be free to do what we want! Marry who we want! it doesnt matter

And we will repress your religious rights as much as it takes so that we have our rights! (or your a muslim church)

In the name of the constitution!

And diversity! (as long as you think like we do)

I'm so glad to see you come around and thinking right.

Thinking is a choice.

You are free to think however you wish. (This is America, after all)

But you must be responsible for your thoughts.

If you think in a manner that goes against what government has deemed "right" then that is your choice and you must have wanted to be fined, since it is a conscious act.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
They don't HAVE to conform and marry them.
WE still have FREEDOM to worship who and how we want and this won't change.
even the Supreme ct HAS to obey the law and the current admin with be gone soon.
ALL they have to do is take it to court and delay until he's gone.
THEY can have a legal union,they can claim THEIR OWN church but to DEMAND religious organizations comply ?
Good luck with that.

His point is what if you are a Catholic school and have housing for married couples. What if you don't give a gay couple married housing?

The religious institutions will be forced to accept gay marriage. It will be freedom of religion .. as long as your religion believes exactly what we say it should.

The federal government will force the 501c3's to comply just like they forced Utah when it was a territory to drop multiply wife’s if they wanted to have the benefits of being a state. The 501c3 IRS clause was introduced by LBJ in the fifties to counteract charities from speaking out about his political leanings of that time.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: beezzer

We need to be free to do what we want! Marry who we want! it doesnt matter

And we will repress your religious rights as much as it takes so that we have our rights! (or your a muslim church)

In the name of the constitution!

And diversity! (as long as you think like we do)

Welcome to the new freedom in the USSA!

Look as different as you want, but think exactly the same or pay the price.

I wonder how soon TurboTax will start asking you what your various thoughtcrimes were so they can add the appropriate sin taxes to your estimated tax liability every year ... just like they do now with Obamacare.

Oh, and don't think you can lie ... the NSA is watching and we can access in the event we choose to audit.

a reply to: ketsuko

I know a way around that.

Just change your name to "Lois Lerner".

The IRS will automatically lose any records you may have.

a reply to: beezzer

Or call Hillary Clinton... she's a pro at making significant emails disappear and people with evidence.

Presumably because of anti discrimination, that applies to all religious places?

Somehow I think those religions might not like that idea.

If the state thinks itself as ruling Christianity then it must also run all religions. That's equality right.

Synagogues?

How about Mosques?

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Presumably because of anti discrimination, that applies to all religious places?

Somehow I think those religions might not like that idea.

If the state thinks itself as ruling Christianity then it must also run all religions. That's equality right.

Synagogues?

How about Mosques?

Shhhh! We aren't talking about those. They aren't "evil" and the left still needs them to get elected.

Based on the comments from many here on ATS, and in other places, a lot of people are hoping this affects the churches. Ah, the tolerance.......

Christians should 'learn their place", are "irrelevant", are "as bad as the Taliban", etc, etc, ad nauseum. Some people need to stop talking about tolerance.

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: Profusion

Why do churches get tax exempt status in the first place.....It is unconstitutional.

Because they don't engage in business ect under the exemption. Be that as it may it should have a tax neutral position. The press has one by the same amendment but most press raises money commercially one way or another. If there was a news paper that was just strait news without advertising they would have a tax exempt position.

Its real simple.....the government or the IRS cant shut down a press due to tax position or tax collection. That is if you started running off flyers in your barn critical of the government the government under the 1st cant do anything about it.

Is this hard to understand? What the h*ll have they don't to the education system in this country? Are all unfamiliar with the philosophy behind the 1st amendment? THE FREKKEN BRITS WERE SHUTTING DOWN CHURCHES WHOSE MINISTER TOOK AN ANTI MONARCY STAND AND WERE PRO REVOLUTION. SAME WITH NEWSPAPERS. Threatening churches with tax status forfeiture over political position is the same dam thing! Real simple..... the press and the church were awarded a position above the government when it comes to speech and in the churches case "free exercise" as well.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Based on the comments from many here on ATS, and in other places, a lot of people are hoping this affects the churches. Ah, the tolerance.......

Yea just watch the hypocrisy on display with this. They are like the Sodomites at Lots door with this.


Even Yahoo News, that reaches millions every day, ran a new story this morning asking if the gay marriage thing would "doom" evangelical Christianity. This is a press agency, protected under the same amendment as the church, acting like fools.

a reply to: Phototropic

Agreed!

But I don't think it will ever happen. I wouldn't want to belong to a church that opposes equality for gays and lesbians. Probably why I do not go to church, even though I consider myself a Christian.

originally posted by: guitarplayer

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
They don't HAVE to conform and marry them.
WE still have FREEDOM to worship who and how we want and this won't change.
even the Supreme ct HAS to obey the law and the current admin with be gone soon.
ALL they have to do is take it to court and delay until he's gone.
THEY can have a legal union,they can claim THEIR OWN church but to DEMAND religious organizations comply ?
Good luck with that.

His point is what if you are a Catholic school and have housing for married couples. What if you don't give a gay couple married housing?

The religious institutions will be forced to accept gay marriage. It will be freedom of religion .. as long as your religion believes exactly what we say it should.

The federal government will force the 501c3's to comply just like they forced Utah when it was a territory to drop multiply wife’s if they wanted to have the benefits of being a state. The 501c3 IRS clause was introduced by LBJ in the fifties to counteract charities from speaking out about his political leanings of that time.

The problem there is that the church had constitutional position much higher than a charity from the outset. The IRS or anyone never had the legal right to affix a tax status to the church relegating it to a freekin charity. The position in regards and in relation to the state, in regards to the church and press, is a position beyond control and usurpation under the constitution.

"Free exercise" mean freekin "free exercise". Same as "Shall not be infringed". The language is only ambiguous to IRS agents, fatheaded SCOTUS members, politicians and ACLU lawyers.

originally posted by: ChiefD
a reply to: Phototropic

Agreed!

But I don't think it will ever happen. I wouldn't want to belong to a church that opposes equality for gays and lesbians. Probably why I do not go to church, even though I consider myself a Christian.

What if you were a Tory? You wouldn't want to belong to a church that opposed the Crown.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Based on the comments from many here on ATS, and in other places, a lot of people are hoping this affects the churches. Ah, the tolerance.......

Yea just watch the hypocrisy on display with this. They are like the Sodomites at Lots door with this.


Even Yahoo News, that reaches millions every day, ran a new story this morning asking if the gay marriage thing would "doom" evangelical Christianity. This is a press agency, protected under the same amendment as the church, acting like fools.

It's also noteworthy how nasty many of these same people are now that they can spike the football. Basically, they were making nice until they got their way, and now that they think the real goal is in site, the mask has come off and what you see underneath is pretty ugly.

And they wonder why we don't trust that there won't be any lawsuits against the churches ...

a reply to: ketsuko


Some churches are going to have to pull up their big boy paints now and take a stand on the 1st amendment. Not all will be challenged......those that fall in line with the Crown.

originally posted by: Logarock
Yea just watch the hypocrisy on display with this. They are like the Sodomites at Lots door with this.


Even Yahoo News, that reaches millions every day, ran a new story this morning asking if the gay marriage thing would "doom" evangelical Christianity. This is a press agency, protected under the same amendment as the church, acting like fools.

All of them act that way, and already, many anti-Christian types are speaking as thought hey would love to see christianity done away with entirely. The hypocrisy is strong with that sort.