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Roberts Warns Churches Could Lose Tax-Exempt Status For Opposing Gay Marriage

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posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 08:11 AM
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originally posted by: beezzer
1st Amendment-Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If churches are forced to comply by the government, then marriage between gays will be the least of our concerns.


In my humble opinion.

It'll mean that any and every right, freedom we have is only at the whim of government.


Yeah i whole heartily agree with that I just think the rights of the individual should always come first. Over any organisation or cooperation. I understand that when it comes to the church there has to be compromise and that's fine. What I said was more of a reaction to the implication that the free will of the church was somehow being denied. Its not and the 1st amendment even protects the churches ability to discriminate against people on religious grounds. That was the point I was trying to make.
edit on 27-6-2015 by Megatronus because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 08:22 AM
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They could always get out of the housing business?
Sell their housing buildings to a third party and let them make apartments out of them or whatever.
Or they could find some other way around it. And well, if not, part of having a conviction is paying the price for upholding that conviction. Ya know, like the christians of old became lion food for the sake of theirs, the christians in russia and china often times ended up imprisoned. Poor little Sadrach, Mesach, And Abindgago or however you spell their names, ended up in an oven!
Losing your tax exempt status doesn't even compare to those sacrifices. First you opted to take the tax exempt status, and by doing so you entered into an agreement with the gov't. The government has always placed some conditions onto the churches for this exempt status. IF at any time, the church does not like those conditions they can always opt to removed themselves from the tax exemption status and operate however they want to within reason.
So we see when the christians of old were literally forced into the lion's den, prison, and into the fiery furnace, the churches and religious institutions aren't being forced into anything. At the most, they are being giving a choice between seft-determination and the ability to operate their church with little to no government interference or a tax exemption.
If losing a little bit of money through taxes prohibits them from following their convictions, then I do believe their convictions weren't worth a gran of salt to begin with and well they better pray to God that the time of persecution doesn't come in their lifetime because they certainly won't be standing!



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You totally misunderstood what I said - I did not even mention the creator as responsible - my comments were about the people who follow religions that teach that god created us all equally - something they seem to misunderstand when it comes go gay people.

I also don't align gays with anything like shelby cobras - but do acknowledge that there are psychopaths and sociopaths in both gay and heterosexual peoples, but God made them all as well.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: Megatronus

We often hear the phrase, "Separation of church and state" here and elsewhere.

I wonder if that truly applies anymore.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 08:23 AM
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I think the Justice is engaging hyperbole. Scalia's dissent was utterly ridiculous, so I'm not surprised that Roberts is as well, plus he had a little brown nosing to do with the Conservatives after his 'betrayal' with the Obamacare ruling. No religious institution is going to lose their tax exempt status... what they might lose is federal grants. The government cannot issue grants to institutions that discriminate. Certain charity statuses might be affected also but I haven't dug into that.

So essentially what might happen is that the government might tell religious colleges that they have to comply or lose their welfare checks.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: Profusion
Half the reason Churc'hs keep their mouths shut about the atrocities of the Banking Rich™ create is to keep their Tax Exempt Status.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 11:33 AM
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a reply to: Kali74

Yea we will see how big the talk really is when daddy sugar is waving a check around in front of their face.

I warned about churches and religious institutions taking grants and "Faith Based" money under president Bush and was laughed at as a nut. The government shouldn't be giving faith based groups money anyway! James Madison, the central contributor of the constitution absolutely hated this idea. He even believed that if congress wanted a minister to pray before session, they members should pay out of pocket for that. Madison didn't have anything against the church but had seen and understood what part government money had played in politics and the church before the revolution.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar


The problem is, and has been upheld as such by the SCOTUS in the past, that the power to tax is the power to destroy. The church has 1st amendment protecting in regards to "free expression". This would be threatened by tax codes as it is now by government "faith based" money flowing into the church and religious schools. Obama and his IRS recently established this threat again as fact.


As well most of this talk about the churches own money and what they should be doing with it is a modern day attempt to turn the church into a legitimate institution as long as it adapts a socialist posture with its money.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: Profusion

There are far more Christians in this country than most want to realize. And the man himself said if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. The majority will only take so much.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 01:25 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

I will have to say that I agree, I base my opinions on that, government will not interfered with churches traditions and teachings, they will restrict to only government agencies. They will not amend the constitution to make religion the law of the land and American a theocracy., Neither will amend the constitution to take the rights of churches to their freedom and protection.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: BelowLowAnnouncement
a reply to: Profusion

I wonder if this will affect mosques too


Funny how that is never mentioned.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: Stormdancer777

Not one bit same as Churches or any place that does not wish to do certain marriages.
Accept it or not up to each place of worship.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: Logarock

Ah, but remember that while called grand's, exemptions and gifts, they are also briberies in order to later be able to manipulate the various groups, states and faith base groups dependent of the federal government to do what the government ask or face that readily accessible money that they are getting.

When it comes to states no wonder states has given away their autonomy in the name of Federal funding in order to survive.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: Profusion

Why do churches get tax exempt status in the first place.....It is unconstitutional.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 02:53 PM
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Why should churches be tax-exempt anyway? Considering how involved they are in politics as political lobbyists i'd think it's a no-brainer to remove tax-exempt status from them and any other political organization.

Tax-exempt status should only be given to people, organizations and industries which develop things which are helpful to society. Politics and division is very unhelpful if you ask me.
edit on 27-6-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Many non Catholics go to Catholics schools. If they only gave housing to Catholic marriages they would screw themselves over, and in the end students would be hurt, causing them to be forced to go to other schools, possibly ending Catholic institutions.


Then there should be no issue because they're already recognizing marriages that aren't Catholic.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 03:38 PM
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originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: Profusion

Why do churches get tax exempt status in the first place.....It is unconstitutional.


When you get right down to it, the income tax is unconstitutional. If it wasn't, they wouldn't have had to pass an Amendment for it.

So now, you have both the 14th and 16th Amendments conflicting with the 1st.

In the end, what it more of less comes back to is this: Are we a country that values personal liberty more than enforced equality of outcome or not? No more, no less.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 04:04 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
When you get right down to it, the income tax is unconstitutional. If it wasn't, they wouldn't have had to pass an Amendment for it.


Adding an amendment is the very definition of making something constitutional.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 04:53 PM
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Churches could lose their tax-exempt status with the IRS if they refuse to recognize the Supreme Court’s ruling Friday legalizing gay marriage in all 50 states, Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts warned in his dissenting opinion.

He cited a comment made months ago by the U.S. government’s top lawyer on the same-sex marriage case.

“Hard questions arise when people of faith exercise religion in ways that may be seen to conflict with the new right to same-sex marriage — when, for example, a religious college provides married student housing only to opposite-sex married couples, or a religious adoption agency declines to place children with same-sex married couples,” Roberts wrote.



Gosh...

I was completely unaware of the fact that the religious colleges and religious adoption agencies in the United States were actually legally recognized as churches with tax-exempt status, and therefore fall under their own sets of laws and policies.




posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 05:00 PM
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I say we compromise.

The government should deny 1st Amendment rights to ONLY those churches who don't agree with marriage between those of the same sex.

Sound fair?




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