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Memphis mayor wants to dig up Confederate General (and his wife!)

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posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 12:56 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

Not to derail your thread, but I would like to say this about the whole Confederacy issue:
"Every confederate leader, every confederate general, every confederate soldier who fought and died
were all AMERICANS !!!
Why do we seem to forget this?
Were they dishonorable ? We're they imprisoned as criminals after the war was over ?
Did they cease to be Americans ?
Are we to just try to deny that they ever existed ?
This is just another idiotic episode of political correctness.
Pathetic.
Noro




posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

Thank you for the well thought out explanation. Even though we don't agree on all aspects of this topic we do share some common ground and it appears I may have initially misunderstood your intent, my apologies.


You have made some very good points to back up your logic .



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: muse7

I don't really know if I'd be called a conservative by anyone, but I do support ALL efforts for all localities who want independence. And yes, that includes the Confederacy. I would have been on their side rooting for them. I support the human right of the South to not to be slaves of the North. Because I'm against slavery, I would have supported the Confederacy.

I actually think replacing one form of slavery with another equally brutal form of slavery is actually a bad thing. Blacks were mistreated by slave masters, then they became equally mistreated by authorities and plantation owners after the war because their authorities only freed them at the point of a gun.

Lincoln is one of the only people on the planet Earth to have ended slavery at a cost of hundreds of thousands of lives, 215,000 to 750,000 lives. Did any other nation "have to" go to war over this issue? My history isn't the best but I'll guess no, only brutal war man Lincoln had to kill to get this way with that issue. The Confederate states did not have a right to enslave blacks, and the North did not have the right to enslave the South to their full political system against the will of the South.

The only legitimate government is one that has consent of the governed. Lincoln DID NOT HAVE THE CONSENT of the South to rule over them as a tyrant dictator.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: real_one

I think I came across as defensive so the fault is mine.
This is a touchy issue and it involves my heritage as a Southerner.
Most Southerners feel slavery was an abomination but we're not going to disown or forget our ancestors over it.
People make mistakes and live under difficult circumstances, not every outcome is worthy.
But the South paid a very heavy price for slavery already - 300,000 dead and billions in destroyed homes, businesses and farms.
Not many are aware of the extent of the damage done deliberately to the South.
They know about Sherman's march to the sea from Atlanta but maybe never heard about the Shenandoah valley being burned or that Columbia, SC and Richmond, VA burned to the ground just like Atlanta. This was all part of a war strategy of starving the South of everything from food to medicines to ammunitions.

There was only trial after the war for a Southerner and it was for the Commandant of Andersonville GA prisoner of war camp where thousands of Union soldiers died of starvation and disease. Sad fact is the North refused to swap prisoners and could have saved them. Unlike the North whose POW camps were nearly as bad the South had little food and no medicine to give the prisoners. Commandant Henry Wirtz was the only Confederate to be executed for war crimes.

I tend to babble on but there's so many important details to the war that lend a fuller understanding I have a hard time leaving them out.


edit on 27-6-2015 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 06:20 PM
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General William Tecumseh Sherman, there's an American Civil War general that I can understand someone wanting to dig up, or at least wanting to spit on his grave.

Sherman's "march to the sea," now there's a sad example of one cold-blooded not to mention chicken $hit, worthless military campaign.



" Why They Raped, Pillaged, and Plundered: General Sherman’s Professed Hatred of Self Government "

Source: www.lewrockwell.com...


Historian Karen Stokes has published South Carolina Civilians in Sherman’s Path: Stories of Courage Amid Civil War Destruction that contains a great deal of very telling information about Sherman’s motivation in waging total war on the civilian population of South Carolina.

Stokes begins by quoting a letter that Sherman wrote to General Henry Halleck shortly before invading all-but-defenseless South Carolina: “[T]he whole army is burning with an insatiable desire to wreak vengeance upon South Carolina.” In another message a few weeks later, Sherman reiterated to Halleck that “The whole army is crazy to be turned loose in [South] Carolina.”



edit on 27-6-2015 by seasoul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: Gothmog

www.huffingtonpost.com... I can see it now. Confederate memento credits . He will be starting a Confederate Memento Trading company soon....more to follow




Camps for the deniers...its not much of a stretch.


Understandable why Hillary has "no comment" on their use of the Confederate Flag!



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 07:40 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

How about anyone demanding that starts with their families, first? Or, better yet, how about this racist jerk shuts up and MOVES ON, already? People like that really tick me off.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 08:03 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

Unfortunately stupidity has become like a plague in America today. That was a very good read about Forrest, I did not know all those things about him. ~$heopleNation



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 08:07 PM
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a reply to: Noromyxo

Few if any of them ever declared they weren't still Americans.

Read some of the memoirs of not only the generals, but the enlisted, on both sides. Many were torn over fighting fellow Americans, but felt it was what they had to do. Felt they had no choice.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 08:12 PM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: real_one



There was only trial after the war for a Southerner and it was for the Commandant of Andersonville GA prisoner of war camp where thousands of Union soldiers died of starvation and disease. Sad fact is the North refused to swap prisoners and could have saved them. Unlike the North whose POW camps were nearly as bad the South had little food and no medicine to give the prisoners. Commandant Henry Wirtz was the only Confederate to be executed for war crimes.





Many thousands of southerners died in Union POW camps. There is one down the road from my home, a cemetery at the old site. Several thousand malnourished succumbed to sickness under ridiculous living conditions.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 08:26 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

Thanks for this good story. Even though I lean to the left, I find that liberals like to over-simplify things so that they can censor them. Liberals are even more guilty of generalizing than conservatives are!

The Confederate Flag and the south and even slavery itself are more complex than liberals would like to believe.
edit on 27pmSat, 27 Jun 2015 20:27:50 -0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 10:41 PM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals
After some online searching I did want to make people aware that there is an abundance of contradictory and often outright wrong information about Forrest. He was perhaps the most demonized man in the South after Jefferson Davis so it is natural that a good deal of inflammatory rhetoric about him would have been written. I'm simply posting this to make the reader aware of the polarized nature of material about him.


You could fill volumes of books with incorrect information concern Sherman's March to the Sea. The South still views Sherman as a demon. Due to the nature of the Civil War the leading figures on both sides are still seen in the light of which side you historically support. If you haven't already I recommend you read : Born to Battle: Grant and Forrest--Shiloh, Vicksburg, and Chattanooga by Jack Hurst.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 11:04 PM
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The number of people who want him dug up is not even rated in percentage points to the number of people who care less.

The real tragedy is the condlfederate flag is being target by officials who refuse either to take a vote or acknowledge the majorities wishes to leave it alone.

The American flag has flown over far more attrocity than the Confederate one, that's part of its history, not its future.



posted on Jun, 28 2015 @ 05:02 AM
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To put the shoe on the other foot what if someone said "we have to dig up Nat Turner and move his grave"? You would hear some outrage and rightfully so. Sure he led slave a rebellion and killed women and children but dead people don't deserve to be treated with so much disrespect regardless of what they did. Leave the dead alone, there's enough living people causing problems right now. Mostly the guy in the White House if you ask me.



posted on Jun, 28 2015 @ 05:56 AM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Noromyxo

Few if any of them ever declared they weren't still Americans.


IMO this is the more important point that should be discussed. A few nutters who want to dig up Forest's grave aren't worth giving the time of day to. Did those who served with the Confederacy not ID with their state and not there country?

Your birth place decided on which side of the war you fought in. Has Geography ever had a greater hand in welding one's destiny? If Forest had been born in California he would have fought for the Union.



posted on Jun, 28 2015 @ 09:15 AM
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a reply to: xpert11

For the most part, yes.

But not totally. The states Kentucky, Missouri were split essentially right down the middle, and an entire state was carved out of another as a direct result of this division-West Virginia.

Many states, both north and south, had entire families divided by the war. My own family history shows this, and my family-both sides are from Indiana and Illinois for the most part.



posted on Jun, 28 2015 @ 05:02 PM
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a reply to: seagull

It's rather funny that West Virginia basically seceded from the Confederacy.
They no slaves and no interest in fighting for it either.
The Neutral states of KY, MO were among the worst due to families fighting for both sides and armies marching back and forth through them for 4 years. Whole towns in Missouri were slaughtered for being pro-either side. No shortage of atrocities there due to guerrilla warfare.


edit on 28-6-2015 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2015 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

A lot of "western" states were that way. Even to the north in Minnesota and Michigan. The Oregon Territories had issues with families on both sides of the fight.

Most were not at all interested in slavery pro or con. Despite commentary to the contrary.



posted on Jun, 28 2015 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

This whole movement IMHO is just bizarre and akin to book burning or destroying antiquities because they aren't in line with the views of the day. We should keep things from our history - not always to celebrate them - but to learn what NOT to do again. We can't just wipe away the bad parts and rewrite history. We need to be reminded of our struggles as human beings and as you said, he was a product of the way of life at that time. Times were different - modes of thinking were different.

We don't need to go around digging people up or go ape**** when we see a symbol that offends us - it reeks of ignorance and witch hunts.

Teach your kids history as it really happened and emphasize what not to do again. It's that simple.



posted on Jun, 28 2015 @ 05:28 PM
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originally posted by: Noromyxo
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Not to derail your thread, but I would like to say this about the whole Confederacy issue:
"Every confederate leader, every confederate general, every confederate soldier who fought and died
were all AMERICANS !!!
Why do we seem to forget this?
Were they dishonorable ? We're they imprisoned as criminals after the war was over ?
Did they cease to be Americans ?
Are we to just try to deny that they ever existed ?
This is just another idiotic episode of political correctness.
Pathetic.
Noro



You also should not deny that they did not consider themselves as Americans (ide citizens of the USA), tried to slit up the Union by force of arms and were anti the constitution.




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