Memphis mayor wants to dig up Confederate General (and his wife!)

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

He's buried in a prominent part of town.
There's also a large equestrian statue of him.
They want him moved out of town because of his association with the KKK.
It's the same with the klan as both political parties are - could you say either were the same organizations that stand for the same things today they did 150 years ago?
The original KKK was in response to carpetbaggers and Republicans buying up every political position around, not to terrorize blacks.
When the KKK turned violent Forrest denounced it and quit.

Skalliwag was one popular term for those opportunists who colluded with carpetbaggers to seize land, businesses and political offices during what they taught me to call The Reconstruction. What I meant to say was that Nathan Bedford Forrest was an outstanding General on par with Patton or Washington at military school with the Finklestein # kid.

Memphis Mayor A C Wharton probably works for ISIS, they like smashing statues and artifacts and to erase history!
I found this terrorist webpage .... acwharton.com...

At some point after the Civil War Forest it dawned on Forest that he was going to have to reinvent himself in order to get along in the new order. Nobody would want to do business transactions with the founder of the KKK. So much like a much later historical figure by the name of Albert Speer Forest set out to recast himself in a more decent moral light.

I don't support the idea of moving his grave. As far as I know it isn't shine for white supremacists.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Wow, it has been a long time since I've seen a thread on here full of facts and not your usual emotionally overcharged racist stereotypical KKK southerner stereotype.

S + F for you OP just for sharing some actual history. Anyone who takes the time to go to a library and check out some for real history books written by actual historians and the letters/diaries of the soldiers themselves will see that the reasons for the war that they spew in the history schoolbooks are pretty far from the actual truth.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

It is sad when people in America this days can not tell history from TV fantasy, next they will be after the death presidents that supported slavery during their presidential term.

Yes, Washington be next, Washington who? yes another General white man that had slaves

Pity, is not hard to be stupid in America but harder when the stupidity comes from those that are elected leaders.

originally posted by: muse7
Conservatives seem to be a very un-american bunch.

From being infatuated with Putin to being infatuated with the Confederacy and Confederate generals.

Well its about like any good liberal wearing a Che shirt. Hell they dug his ass up and made a monument to him.

a reply to: imitator

Thanks so much for that link.
I decided to write him and here is what I said:

Hon. Mayor Wharton,

I am contacting you concerning your recent statement of intent to remove both the statue and the grave of Nathan Bedford Forrest. If one knows about the full of history of Forrest it becomes readily apparent that not only was he not a racist but in fact was a very progressive person for his time and dearly loved by the African American community of Memphis. Estimates are that 15,000 African Americans marched in his funeral procession. As a businessman after the war he employed Blacks in large numbers on his railroad and in all professional roles.

His story is one of a man who overcame the morality of his time and place through Christ's love and worked to make amends with his fellow man. I beg you learn his full history as what he did in his lifetime makes an honorable example that we can all learn from today.

If the African Americans of his time felt no need to judge the man who are we to do so today? Please reconsider your decision to have his gravesite moved. It's ok to make errors but only if one admits to them.
Imagine a politician who could admit that even once!

We need healing in this country, not further division. Here is an opportunity for you to inform the African American community about a man who does not deserve to be scorned for his actions during his life,

Sincerely,
XXXXXX

originally posted by: burntheships

originally posted by: muse7
infatuated with the Confederacy and Confederate generals.

Brings to mind the Sons of South; Bill Clinton and Al Gore. And Bill clearly
elaborated as to why he kept the Confederate Star on Arkansas State Flag.
Can we expect to see Arkansas change its flag next? Will Hillary face scrutiny
about her allegiance to Bill? Will Bill Clinton repent?

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Wont be holding my breath.

Now on to the real world....Great read AKA, one of the best ever on ATS.

Amazing Grace...

Oh , no. Dont bring Al Gore into this . I can see it now. Confederate memento credits . He will be starting a Confederate Memento Trading company soon....more to follow

After some online searching I did want to make people aware that there is an abundance of contradictory and often outright wrong information about Forrest. He was perhaps the most demonized man in the South after Jefferson Davis so it is natural that a good deal of inflammatory rhetoric about him would have been written. I'm simply posting this to make the reader aware of the polarized nature of material about him.

One source calls him a "demonically inspired" military leader. Sometimes the attacks on his character are subtle, other times overbearingly in-your-face. The humiliation of those he defeated in battle was the source of much of the festering vitriol written about him. Even Grant took a swipe at him in his memoirs though WT Sherman had nothing but praise for the man as a military leader.

Loved by many, hated by more, unknown by most.

originally posted by: seagull
He's dead and gone to what ever awaited him.

What point to this stupidity? Score some sick political points?

Aside from that, there is no point to it. I heard about this a few days ago, and while I've steered clear of the Confederate flag issue and other Civil War related stuff in light of recent events, it seems to me that the hysteria coming from the perpetually offended segment of society has reached a critical mass of stupidity with this one.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

It would be nice to think that your letter will help educate the ignorant, but I wager that it is more likely to be disregarded by these people who seem to be bent on erasing history, rather than learning from it.

Well-written letter, though.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

He was reputed to have never mistreated a slave.

If I were to be forced into physical slavery, I would consider it as mistreatment .

The fact that he made millions trading humans then spent his fortune to protect slavery pretty much throws out the "he was a good dude" charade.

Digging him up seems extreme though.

My advice?

Choose better heroes and realize that we are all slaves in one way or another.


ETA:

Some people claim Hitler was a solid dude too.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Your hero worship of a traitor is appalling.

He should be shamed, not honored.

a reply to: real_one

My advice?
Stop judging people from the distant past by the standards and morals of today.
If you don't think it was so different how would you have been received in 1860 had you announced you were gay?
Or that you wanted a sex-change or abortion?
The culture we are born into molds our standards of right and wrong.
Even the churches of the South used parts of the Bible to justify the bondage of Blacks.
Do you really expect people to spontaneously reject the societal standards they grow up in?

Or how about this - what country has the most slaves today?
India.
#2 is -
China.
Where's the outrage?
en.wikipedia.org...

The comparisons of the Confederacy to Nazi Germany are tiresome and have no basis in reality.
Although German soldiers were used as slave labor by both France and Russia after the war ended.

originally posted by: supremecommander
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Your hero worship of a traitor is appalling.

He should be shamed, not honored.

After the war ended many people wanted to see Jefferson Davis tried and hung for that very charge of treason.
A panel of judicial experts decided they didn't have a case strong enough to ensure a conviction so he was never charged.
It you can't hang that label on the President of the Confederacy nobody from the South deserved it either.

Btw, this isn't hero worship.
I am attempting to show a fuller side to the story of a man who has been demonized for various reasons.
If it makes you feel better malign away.
That is your right too.

Where does the foolishness end?Will there be some yahoo suggesting Robert E Lee's military strategies not be taught at West Point anymore because he owned slaves?

Stop judging people from the distant past by the standards and morals of today.
If you don't think it was so different how would you have been received in 1860 had you announced you were gay?
Or that you wanted a sex-change or abortion?
The culture we are born into molds our standards of right and wrong.
Even the churches of the South used parts of the Bible to justify the bondage of Blacks.
Do you really expect people to spontaneously reject the societal standards they grow up in?

Absolutely! This is what people don't fully understand. The first slaves came here almost 400 years ago. Slavery was common all over the world and not with just blacks...all races. Nobody thought they were doing anything wrong by buying and trading slaves. We are appalled by that practice today, but back then it was just the way things were and we should not condemn the human race for something commonly practiced during THEIR place in time.

Men dueled to settle scores for heaven's sake! Different time, different place.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Stop judging people from the distant past by the standards and morals of today.

I must say that I agree to an extent, where do we draw the line on which morals we uphold to today's day and age compared to days past? My intent is not to be argumentative but people use the same debate for child marriages, I am not saying you support this but it is a valid comparison to what you mentioned.

Just my opinion of course.

If you don't think it was so different how would you have been received in 1860 had you announced you were gay?

I've learned a long time ago to leave my opinions out of LGBT and abortion discussions.

The culture we are born into molds our standards of right and wrong.
Even the churches of the South used parts of the Bible to justify the bondage of Blacks.

Once again I agree but must also ask where do we draw the line on what is acceptable. Do we tolerate everything because it was once part of our culture/society?

You do not strike me as the type of person who promotes these things and I may have come off a bit harsh on my original reply but it seems that we pick and choose which ugly portions of our history we openly reminisce about with pride.

Do we persecute German Nazis who were born into it? Or how about those who were not born into it but support it since it is part of their heritage?

Sorry for all the rhetorical questions, no need to answer them lol.

Do you really expect people to spontaneously reject the societal standards they grow up in?

I do if their standards are morally corrupt.

Or how about this - what country has the most slaves today?
India.
#2 is -
China.
Where's the outrage?
en.wikipedia.org...

Trust me, I am sickened by how we humans enslave each other.

The comparisons of the Confederacy to Nazi Germany are tiresome and have no basis in reality.

I briefly shared my thoughts on this earlier in this post and I was kind of agreeing with you then, but not so much now.

I find the comparisons to be valid.

I'm curious as to why you believe the comparison holds no basis in reality, especially since you said:

Do you really expect people to spontaneously reject the societal standards they grow up in?

Same # , different pile my friend.

I wonder how many blacks died at the hands of slavery, perhaps 6 million? Maybe more?

It's all about votes and good ole AC needs them. So pander to the crowd...do What Ever it Takes !
AC is a joke and all ways has been. He only got the job because he exploited his own..great guy huh?

a reply to: real_one

Genocide and slavery are vastly different as you know.
A dead slave has no value.
American inherited slavery from England, it was only about 75 years from the writing of the Constitution until the Civil War, 3 generations. Importation of slaves was made illegal in 1808 and the number of slaves tripled in the following 40 years due to births in the US.

There were many in the South who argued for abolition but in practicality what could do with 4 million people suddenly freed who owned no land and few of whom had employable skills? They would either have to removed West like the Native Americans or sent to Liberia (neither of which was practical in any way). It was an evil that once started was very difficult to stop. Earlier slave rebellions had also made Whites fear them having their freedom.

You are correct, slavery cannot be justified in any age but sadly it still exists and there are more slaves now than 150 years ago. The world as a whole is not making progress on this issue.