ICC credibility test: Palestinians submit first war crimes evidence against Israel

Achieving justice is essential for the Palestinian victims, dead and alive. Palestine has chosen to seek justice not vengeance, this is why we are here today.

The above declaration comes with the submission by the Palestinian Authority (PA) of the first dossier of evidence to the International Criminal Court (ICC) to support its campaign to have Israel investigated for alleged war crimes.



The documents handed over on Thursday consist of two files: one about alleged Israeli crimes committed in Gaza during the 51-day war in July and August last year that killed 2,200 Palestinians, mostly civilians, and 73 Israelis, mostly soldiers.

The other file deals with Israel's occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, including "information about the issue of Palestinian prisoners,"

The report would “focus primarily on providing the context within which a pattern of systematic interrelated crimes have been committed within and throughout the Palestinian state, including through the Israeli settlement regime, and the blockade and attacks against the Gaza Strip and civilian population.”





Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad al-Maliki said:

Palestine is a test for the credibility of international mechanisms ... a test the world cannot afford to fail. Palestine has decided to seek justice, not vengeance.

This is not the first time that Palestinians seek justice to their claim. It happened when following a Israel’s offensive on the Gaza Strip in 2008-2009, in which 1,300 Palestinians were killed in a 23-day war, Palestinians sent an ad hoc request for the ICC to look into Israeli war crimes.

The chief prosecutor at the time took three years before deciding in 2012 that an investigation could not be carried out due to the non-state status of the occupied Palestinian territories.

In that same year, in November, the Palestinian leadership went to the UN with Mahmoud Abbas asking the UN General Assembly to recognize Palestine as a non-member observer state. This was granted, which gave Palestine the right to become a member of the ICC and send ad hoc requests for investigations.

Now, Israel must decide whether to cooperate with the ICC investigation or find itself isolated as a country that have declined to work with its prosecutors.





Amazingly upsetting and hypocritical stance of pressure comes from within the US Government when, Nita Lowey, U.S. Representative say's:

By formally submitting allegations against Israeli forces to the ICC chief prosecutor, President (Mahmoud) Abbas has triggered a provision in U.S. law that suspends all economic assistance to the PA

The above makes me quote:
Brian Eno’s letter to America: WHY? I just don’t get it

The America I know and like is compassionate, broadminded, creative, eclectic, tolerant and generous. You, my close American friends, symbolise those things for me. But which America is backing this horrible one-sided colonialist war? I can’t work it out: I know you’re not the only people like you, so how come all those voices aren’t heard or registered?

How come it isn’t your spirit that most of the world now thinks of when it hears the word ‘America’? How bad does it look when the one country which more than any other grounds its identity in notions of Liberty and Democracy then goes and puts its money exactly where its mouth isn’t and supports a ragingly racist theocracy?

source 1;source 2;source 3;source 4

Will not make a difference Israel as well as the USA do not recognise the ICC.
Well put thread dude.

a reply to: voyger2

I am pleased to hear that the Palestinians have assembled and presented these documents to the ICC. One has to hope (since without hope, there can be no joy) that the ICC responds to the data in a manner commensurate with the severity of claims within the document, rather than allowing any pressures they might find themselves under to do otherwise, to affect their deliberations and conclusions.

Of course, alongside that hope, it is wise to prepare for an outcome which would make no sense to you or I, and which will potentially make plain that power can be exerted on supposedly unbiased organisations by certain groups and political blocs, in direct contravention of several articles of international law, and in violation of the spirit of justice.

In short, hope for justice, but prepare for travesty and perversion.

Wow I'm glad the UK parliament cares. My own US government cares ZERO about them and rolls in Israeli lobby money. It's down right pathetic that our government tries to spread fairness, democracy and peace to all, while hypocritically destroying Palestine for the sick zionists that think they are the chosen people....bull# a peaceful God would agree with bombing hospitals, UN safe zones, schools.....yeah, yeah they say weapons are hiding there, but the death tolls tell different, the soldiers of the IDF tell different, the political elite even say they need to kill the next generation. In my eye Isreal is right on par with nazi Germany back in the day. It sickens me to see the USA, my country, help commit genocide against a people with absolutely nothing. I hate Lindsey graham too....I just had to add that as he's a freaking bought and paid for Israeli plague with half of the rest of my gov. What kind of human can see this as ok? Makes me so sad.

a reply to: voyger2

Israeli zionism is a filthy disgusting stain on human history and the US government is it's bitch.

Israeli Zionism in 2015 is EXACTLY the same as German Nazism in 1939 and the Palestinians today are the Jews of 1939.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Exactly! That's how freaking screwed up our world is today. To see such meaningless death and yet support it against all logic.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

You would have thought they would have learnt from WW2 and what happened.
Obviously didn't.

It is amazing to me the total number of people that willingly disregard all of the history in that region just to justify their beliefs ...
Must be this new age history...lets change it to match popular beliefs
Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it.

a reply to: NiZZiM

The Palestinians are punished for complaining of ill treatment under occupation, is certainly a good example of the “no light between”

"No Light Between the U.S. and Israel”

originally posted by: voyger2

Achieving justice is essential for the Palestinian victims, dead and alive. Palestine has chosen to seek justice not vengeance, this is why we are here today.

The above declaration comes with the submission by the Palestinian Authority (PA) of the first dossier of evidence to the International Criminal Court (ICC) to support its campaign to have Israel investigated for alleged war crimes.

The documents handed over on Thursday consist of two files: one about alleged Israeli crimes committed in Gaza during the 51-day war in July and August last year that killed 2,200 Palestinians, mostly civilians, and 73 Israelis, mostly soldiers.

The other file deals with Israel's occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, including "information about the issue of Palestinian prisoners,"

The report would “focus primarily on providing the context within which a pattern of systematic interrelated crimes have been committed within and throughout the Palestinian state, including through the Israeli settlement regime, and the blockade and attacks against the Gaza Strip and civilian population.”

Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad al-Maliki said:

Palestine is a test for the credibility of international mechanisms ... a test the world cannot afford to fail. Palestine has decided to seek justice, not vengeance.

This is not the first time that Palestinians seek justice to their claim. It happened when following a Israel’s offensive on the Gaza Strip in 2008-2009, in which 1,300 Palestinians were killed in a 23-day war, Palestinians sent an ad hoc request for the ICC to look into Israeli war crimes.

The chief prosecutor at the time took three years before deciding in 2012 that an investigation could not be carried out due to the non-state status of the occupied Palestinian territories.

In that same year, in November, the Palestinian leadership went to the UN with Mahmoud Abbas asking the UN General Assembly to recognize Palestine as a non-member observer state. This was granted, which gave Palestine the right to become a member of the ICC and send ad hoc requests for investigations.

Now, Israel must decide whether to cooperate with the ICC investigation or find itself isolated as a country that have declined to work with its prosecutors.

Amazingly upsetting and hypocritical stance of pressure comes from within the US Government when, Nita Lowey, U.S. Representative say's:

By formally submitting allegations against Israeli forces to the ICC chief prosecutor, President (Mahmoud) Abbas has triggered a provision in U.S. law that suspends all economic assistance to the PA

The above makes me quote:
Brian Eno’s letter to America: WHY? I just don’t get it

The America I know and like is compassionate, broadminded, creative, eclectic, tolerant and generous. You, my close American friends, symbolise those things for me. But which America is backing this horrible one-sided colonialist war? I can’t work it out: I know you’re not the only people like you, so how come all those voices aren’t heard or registered?

How come it isn’t your spirit that most of the world now thinks of when it hears the word ‘America’? How bad does it look when the one country which more than any other grounds its identity in notions of Liberty and Democracy then goes and puts its money exactly where its mouth isn’t and supports a ragingly racist theocracy?

source 1;source 2;source 3;source 4

Thanks for the OP.

I agree, this IS a test for the ICC.

In the past, international law has only been applied to banana republics and small time dictators, not the big powers such as the West, Russia, nor allies.

It is time for the international community to have a single standard.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: voyger2

I am pleased to hear that the Palestinians have assembled and presented these documents to the ICC. One has to hope (since without hope, there can be no joy) that the ICC responds to the data in a manner commensurate with the severity of claims within the document, rather than allowing any pressures they might find themselves under to do otherwise, to affect their deliberations and conclusions.

Of course, alongside that hope, it is wise to prepare for an outcome which would make no sense to you or I, and which will potentially make plain that power can be exerted on supposedly unbiased organisations by certain groups and political blocs, in direct contravention of several articles of international law, and in violation of the spirit of justice.

In short, hope for justice, but prepare for travesty and perversion.

I agree with your sentiments.

I'm all for international law. But the double standard of a free for all for the west and its allies, while enemies and small-time dictators are subdued under the veneer of human rights and international law, is horrible.

And I've seen so many fools support or justify this, including even people I know that are lawyers who know international law and politics.

Some of them have even said, "Yes the big powers should be held accountable but it will not happen in our current times so let's just go back to discussing the war crimes of small country X."

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Sublimecraft

You would have thought they would have learnt from WW2 and what happened.
Obviously didn't.

An unfortunate truth is that sometimes the oppressed can become the oppressors.

This is why those who claim to seek social justice but attribute oppression/racism/you name it only to one group (whites in the US, Germans in Europe, etc) without observing the universal human potential for prejudice psychologically, behaviorally, and systematically, set us up for the next cycle and I would argue almost prepare the way for it. As long as it's "only whites or germans who do it" then we don't proactively guard against ourselves or other groups doing it once they come to power, or even in inter-personal situations. It gives license to poor behavior.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: voyger2

Israeli zionism is a filthy disgusting stain on human history and the US government is it's bitch.

Israeli Zionism in 2015 is EXACTLY the same as German Nazism in 1939 and the Palestinians today are the Jews of 1939.

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379 adopted on November 10, 1975 by a vote of 72 to 35 (with 32 abstentions), "determine[d] that Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination".



The determination that "Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination", contained in the resolution, was revoked in 1991 due to Israel demand and condition of its participation in the Madrid Conference of 1991

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Well quite.

The fact of the matter is, that many western powers, most particularly the U.S. and the U.K. should be asked to account for the illegality of the War in Iraq for example, and the inappropriate and illegal treatment of detainees, the unbelievably stupid approach to combating the Afghanistani jihadists during the war against the Taliban there, and the continued, arbitrary, and entirely broad spectrum surveillance of the internet and communications data of the entire world, to name just a few things.

The tendency for those in the know, in the legal feild, to work on what they are most likely to be able to actually move forward is a brand of pragmatism which may serve legal experts well in commercial matters, but in matters so serious as this, it fails entirely. The ability of international law to be applied equally across the board, is vital. The reason for this, is that unequal outcomes for like criminal behaviour on the part of governments, is one of the things which helps terror recruiters to do their jobs. Hypocrisy, lies, and power playing on the part of Western governments to avoid censure for their moral failings is one of many levers applied by the recruiters, to the minds of those they seek to brainwash.

That, it must be said, excuses nothing that the jihadist nutcases of the world do. But regardless of that, the West must always seek to be accountable for its errors, for its failures, and for its out and out evils. If the governments of Western nations seek to impose a moral standard on other nations, then they MUST in and of themselves behave in sterling fashion, and they simply do not.

With regard to the specific situation at hand, the Israeli government has been responsible for huge numbers of senseless acts of barbarity, attacking civilians with everything from missiles to phosphor shells, gunning children down in the street, stealing land they have no legitimate legal title to, and brutalising all who stand in their way. They must be held to account, just the same as terrorist elements acting from within Gaza must be taken to trial. The reality of this situation however, is that while Hamas and other groups in Palestine HAVE been ostracised by national governments, and called terrorist organisations by intelligence agencies around the world, the Israeli government have never had to answer for a damn thing that they have done, despite being responsible for hundreds of times as many deaths over the years, than their opposite numbers on the other side of The Strip.

Frankly, I think it is about time they were forced to smell the turd they have been spreading, and I hope they get their noses rubbed in it.

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 43/176 in which the General Assembly called for the convening of an International Peace Conference on the Middle East, under the auspices of the United Nations.

Was adopted with 138 votes in favor and 2 abstentions.

Israel and the United States were the only states that voted against the resolution.

Key elements of the resolution:

1- withdrawal of Israel from the occupied Palestinian territories, including Jerusalem, and from the other occupied Arab territories (that is the Golan Heights);

2-security of all States in the region, including those named in resolution 181 (that is Israel and Palestine), within secure and internationally recognized boundaries

3- execution of Resolution 194;

4- dismantling the Israeli settlements

5- free access to Holy Places

Israel especially objected to paragraph 3, which affirms the principle of ending Israel's occupation, complete withdrawal and application of Resolution 194 regarding the Palestinian refugees.

Israel also objected to the participation in the International Conference of the PLO, which was not acknowledged by Israel as the representative of the Palestinians, at the time.

Israel argued that the conference would substitute, rather than support direct negotiations

Unfortunately the charade goes on for decades with the support of the US.

Israel will do about this report the same they have always done about reports like this.
First they will whine that it is biased.
Second they will cry about how other nations are doing bad things and why is Israel being picked on.
Third Benny will give a speech about it and then bring up the holocaust as usual.