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Confederate Flag Question!!!

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posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 10:39 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

My mother's family can be traced back to Daughter's of the American Revolution, she had relatives who fought for the Union and the Confederacy during the Civil War. Her father’s middle name was “Stonewall,” he just happened to be related to Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson. She's about as patriotic as one could be, always making sure the American flag was out on appropriate holidays. What I refer to as an “old American,” they're usually very generous people, individuals who'd give you the shirt right off their back.

My father's parents on the other hand were a gang of Italian immigrants, fresh off the boat at Ellis Island. They weren't what I refer to as “old Americans,” not a patriotic bone in their bodies, a bunch of takers with some opportunistic horse thief DNA mixed in, who'd gladly steal the shirt off your back.

Big difference between the two families.

There was a time when I loved this country, not so much anymore. I have a certain respect for the Confederate flag and what it meant to the rank-and-file Southerner who fought and died defending it and their homes. It's unfortunate as to what the U.S. flag has come to represent, can't say that I have much respect left for it.



edit on 25-6-2015 by seasoul because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 10:42 PM
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a reply to: the owlbear

The government told Ebay and Amazon to not sell any items with the flag on it.
Petitions are being started to remove statues, rename streets and schools and erase any public trace of anything associated with the Confederacy.

Graveyards are being vandalized.
Monuments are being defaced.
This is just an open display of hatred for Southern Whites and their history.
Did I mention the government calls White Americans the greatest terrorist threat?
Is someone being boxed in to a corner here?
How are we to learn from history if we destroy it from public memory?



edit on 25-6-2015 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 10:45 PM
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This crusade to rid the south of a common sense of pride and the rebel nature of the south. The flag represented states rights which is extremely contrary to the federal governments view. I view this as a open in our face effort to rewrite history as per the leaders point of view . From The bars and stars to video games, clothing, books, movies and my home state a push to destroy a monument marker of a Civil war battle. Even the movie Gone with the Wind this is not about racist its about cleansing of a southern heritage extinguish the rebellious spirit of southerners .

If it was about slavery and racism a better choice of attack would be on Wall street. Wall street was this country's biggest symbols of slavery . Originally Wall street was named because it was along a defensive wall to protect From Indian raids. The major commodity that was sold on Wall street was slaves slave auctions mostly and a little livestock that persisted till 1840 ish . I read in old books about 70% of the US slaves prior to 1840 was sold in the slave auctions on Wall Street in New York.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 10:56 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

Funny you mention this, I was just reading the local news and came across an article about a small group that is starting to make a stink about a small section of highway (Davis highway) and other civil war memorials here in Arizona.


This is getting way out of hand.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 11:09 PM
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a reply to: thesaneone
Im in NM theres a couple old battlefields here that are being protested . There is more to this than we can see.



posted on Jun, 26 2015 @ 12:19 AM
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Supporting the popular scientific theory that a dominant genetic trait and generally weak DNA structure, determines a rare but common hypocritical characteristic among career politicians.



" Confederate Flag Controversy: Will Obama Resign Because His Family Owned Slaves? "

Source: www.infowars.com...


edit on 26-6-2015 by seasoul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2015 @ 12:20 AM
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originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: FyreByrd

Yep, there were no such things as indentured servants or white slaves, just ask all the Irish.

No blacks in Africa sold other blacks into slavery and their were no black people rioting in the streets in Africa to protest the END of the slave trade.

Ignorance is knowledge, truth is lies.

Can we start the book burnings now? That hack Mark Twain can be the kindling.


Simialar grants - but the 'indentured' sold their labor for passage to the colonies - they where not kidnapped from their homes and forced into servitude for life and the lifes of any children they might bring into the world.

I'm not downplaying the hardships suffered by many of the indentured - but they did choose it and did receive some recompense for their labor (however misreprented it was). Basically the US is the land of the indentured slave. But to compare it to True Slavery is ignorant.



posted on Jun, 26 2015 @ 12:22 AM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: the owlbear

The government told Ebay and Amazon to not sell any items with the flag on it.
Petitions are being started to remove statues, rename streets and schools and erase any public trace of anything associated with the Confederacy.

Graveyards are being vandalized.
Monuments are being defaced.
This is just an open display of hatred for Southern Whites and their history.
Did I mention the government calls White Americans the greatest terrorist threat?
Is someone being boxed in to a corner here?
How are we to learn from history if we destroy it from public memory?




Telling tales? no - just carrying the tales of the noise machine.



posted on Jun, 26 2015 @ 01:17 AM
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a reply to: FyreByrd




Simialar grants - but the 'indentured' sold their labor for passage to the colonies - they where not kidnapped from their homes and forced into servitude for life and the lifes of any children they might bring into the world.



But you over looked a group of indentured servants the one whos were enemies of the state or criminals. During King Georges rein many Well to Irishmen lost land and estates and were shipped off to America as indentured servants for fines and as a sentence. Being critical of good old King George could buy you a one way ticket out of Ireland Scotland or England.

That is how my great great great grandfather got here . Lost estate land livestock ect in Ireland for subversive behavior against the crown was to be in servitude till he was very old or dead but War intervened .



posted on Jun, 26 2015 @ 02:52 AM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd
Basically the US is the land of the indentured slave. But to compare it to True Slavery is ignorant.


This entire flap is flooded with ignorance. The "rebel flag equals Swastika" side of this, which seems to have manifested itself with a never ending flow of "Would you be OK with the Swastika flying/sold/displayed..." is among the STUPIDEST attempted analogies I have ever seen. There is about as blunt an example of a total lack of perspective and flat-out absence of historical knowledge as can be found among people who speak in multi-syllabic speech.



posted on Jun, 26 2015 @ 02:55 AM
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a reply to: Lostinthedarkness

People don't realize that the southern half of New Mexico territory was confederate. That's my point of origin, born and raised just north of the Mexico border. We had rebel flags at every parade and even when I was in college at NMSU we had a Sons of the Confederacy chapter and flew the flag at home football games until the mid 90s when the early social justice warrior well-meaning idiots protested it.



posted on Jun, 26 2015 @ 08:26 AM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

I had no idea that the confederate flag was flying above a United States member states State House. Or that it is a part of the Alabama flag. That is my ignorance.


Actually, it's not part of the Alabama flag. The Alabama flag is a crimson St. Andrew's cross on a field of white. Although the Confederate "Rebel" Flag is another representation of the St. Andrew's cross, the cross is found on many national flags across the globe. Mississippi is the flag you're thinking of with an actual representation of the Confederate "Rebel" Flag. Sorry, I was raised in Alabama and it's a common misconception that erks me. No hard feelings though.


originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

Regarding your OP, I have no clue the source of such hog wash other than yes I have heard it on several instances on the internet. I agree it's a stupid rebuttal and being from the south it's been painful to watch. It's part of why most of the folks standing behind the Confederate Flag are regarded as backward, ignorant rednecks. Wait...that is partly true.

I agree that the actual history behind the flag is not a representation of hate, but first hand I know for a long time it has been used for that exact reason. They can cry and whine all they want, but fact of the matter is YES, this day in age, it is a representation of hate. I was born and raised under that flag and I was raised to hate. Blacks, Mexicans, Jews, Homosexuals, all of them. Common saying from where I come from was "If you ain't white, you ain't right."

Once I broke away from my southern baptist upbringing and moved out of Alabama, I realized just how much of a jacka$$ my parents raised in me. I for one am not proud of the desecration of the Rebel flag from what it once was to what is is today.

My major issue with this whole farse is the out right hipocricy of the whole thing. There is more than one Confederate Flag and these companies are yanking them off thier shelves to be PC with this whole thing yet still selling the less common flags. All this simply stims from the media's insatiable thirst to divide this country by race. Another hipocoricy is most of the people fighting for thier right to fly thier flag are the first ones to tell the LGBT that they can't fly thier flag.

The whole thing is rediculous and if it is true that the US government are behind these companies pulling the flags from thier shelves then the rabbit hole may go deeper than we think.
edit on 6 26 2015 by SgtHamsandwich because: (no reason given)

edit on 6 26 2015 by SgtHamsandwich because: (no reason given)

edit on 6 26 2015 by SgtHamsandwich because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2015 @ 08:46 AM
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Hm. Well.

By saying "Captain Obvious" you acknowledge that the statement is true, which, it obviously is: banning or removing a symbol of slavery/racism isn't going to remove racism from people's hearts.

The societal reason for taking down a flag over public/governmental buildings that represents slavery/racism to a large percentage of the population is also obvious. Sort of like how we'd all freak out if our State decided to fly a swastika along with the US flag - its just not cool.

The problem, however, still remains. How do we heal the deep, pus-filled, oozing wound of racism in America? In the world? Making it less socially acceptable is an interesting start. I also see removing the flag as the current bandwagon that is simply an outer gesture, while public policy and thought will still couch inequality and racism in carefully acceptable and coded language. Some people will not even see the inequality or racism inherent in the policy because that wound remains such a constant - its "just the way it is."

That, is a far greater problem.


edit on 26-6-2015 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2015 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

I'm guilty of this analogy. It is, granted, not a perfect one, but really, at the time, the swastika stood for the reemergence of Germany as a power in the world - it united a country. It just happened to unite them around something horrible: racism/bigotry against Jewish people and Germans' own "white is right" sense of superiority. So much was justified by racism in that war - the dehumanizing of the Jewish people in their propaganda was VERY similar to the dehumanizing of black people. Both flags stand for economic gain off the backs of other people by force - the method was different, but there are similarities. Is it that hard to see?

How do you know what the Confederate flag means to those who were enslaved? It is NOT an "okay" symbol for them.
I grant you it means something else to you - I totally get that. To say that it SHOULD mean the same thing as it does to you to people who bore the brunt of oppression, slavery, death, torture, rape, etc. under that flag is wrong. It has been used since the Civil Rights movement to protest measures of equality. This is part of its more recent history. Do you deny that aspect of it?

It is, I will grant you, a very emotional issue.

AB
edit on 26-6-2015 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-6-2015 by AboveBoard because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2015 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

It's not about stopping racism by taking one flag off of the public grounds of a state capital--it has more to do with the whining that comes along with the proponents of the flag removal based on the grounds that it hurts their feelings.

None of these people, nor their parents, nor (most likely) their parent's parents were owned by an individual. The 13th Amendment put a stop to that nonsense, and it's been 150 years since.

Nothing--even outlawing racism--is going to stop racism, but all the knee-jerk reaction of a protest to remove a flag did was further divide people at a time when they should be coming together to help a community heal.

You question the comments by people opposed to the premise for the flag removal--I question the motives of the people so worried about a flag's removal in the first place.



posted on Jun, 26 2015 @ 09:53 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

From Real Clear Politics:

The Confederate Flag and South Carolina



In 2015, anyone displaying that flag knows what it means to viewers, particularly black ones. It's an expression of hostility, not only toward black people, but to broader ideals of how the nation should come to terms with the legacy of racism.

It's a gesture of defiance by many whites who feel victimized by the growing visibility and influence of minorities. It's a giant middle finger, aimed at anyone who would find it offensive.

In a free society, expression of that sort is protected. So it's not surprising to know that the flag can be seen in many places in the South. But it is jarring to be reminded that it still flies at the state Capitol of South Carolina. There, it's justified as a tribute to the state's Civil War heritage and history.

Except it's not, really. The flag didn't fly over the state Capitol until the early 1960s, and it was revived in direct reaction to the civil rights movement. It was a token of whites' attachment to segregation.


- AB



posted on Jun, 26 2015 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I find it amazing that Charlie Hebdo can publish intentionally offensive and insulting cartoons about Muslims and Christians and it is called free speech, but there is a demand to erase the flag of Southern Secession because somewhere (we are told) someone's feeling might be hurt over events that happened before any of us were born.

I have to ask how many of the politicians that are screaming about the "racist" Confederate flag proudly display the flag of apartheid Israel in their office.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 12:36 AM
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originally posted by: the owlbear

originally posted by: dreamingawake
There's information being shared now that the government had these companies, such as Amazon who replied to costumers, that they didn't take the items down politically but were told to by the government. The US government doesn't want these major retailers to sell the confederate flags and items. Am guessing it's the same with the flag manufacturers that will no longer make them. One Source


Under what law?

The heresay of some Amazon.com chained to the computer "MUST MAKE SALES QUOTA OR STARVE" employee(s) IS BULLSnip!!!

There are NO LAWS RESTRICTING THE FREE TRADE OR SALE OF "REBEL" FLAGS(i didnt say confederate for the armchair historians out there, though all are seditious).
The corporations that CHOOSE to not sell merchandise with it, well, it is their choice to sell or not to sell.


That's the point, what court mandated law?

It's the government overstepping here.


originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: the owlbear

The government told Ebay and Amazon to not sell any items with the flag on it.
Petitions are being started to remove statues, rename streets and schools and erase any public trace of anything associated with the Confederacy.

Graveyards are being vandalized.
Monuments are being defaced.
This is just an open display of hatred for Southern Whites and their history.
Did I mention the government calls White Americans the greatest terrorist threat?
Is someone being boxed in to a corner here?
How are we to learn from history if we destroy it from public memory?




Telling tales? no - just carrying the tales of the noise machine.



Who is telling tales? You can actually write to Amazon, etc, if that's not enough.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 03:55 AM
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a reply to: AboveBoard

snip....



How do you know what the Confederate flag means to those who were enslaved? It is NOT an "okay" symbol for them.


Those who were enslaved have been dead for many, many years. The war ended in 1864. They don't care what flag is flying anywhere.
From the time Anthony Johnson refused to honor an indentured servant's contract and went to court in the mid-1650s, slavery existed in the colonies. It was an issue of conflict from the time the colonies threw off British rule.
But it was abolished by amendment to the US Constitution in 1865 and to the best of my knowledge there is no rising political amendment to bring it back.

I had a great-great-great-great grandmother who inherited slaves.
I had a great-great-great-great grandmother who was "removed" from her home by Andrew Jackson's army because she was member of one of the "Civilized Tribes."
One of my great grandmothers hid in the mountains of North Carolina and escaped Jackson's army.
There is another granny back there who was a Chinese woman who was one of a number of Chinese people held as slaves in the iron industry in western Tennessee and Kentucky.
As anyone who has studied the war above and beyond what today's education system puts out can tell you, the war was about money. It wasn't about abolishing slavery. Wars are not about making wrong things into right things, they're about treasure and territory.



posted on Jun, 27 2015 @ 07:20 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: FyreByrd
Basically the US is the land of the indentured slave. But to compare it to True Slavery is ignorant.


This entire flap is flooded with ignorance. The "rebel flag equals Swastika" side of this, which seems to have manifested itself with a never ending flow of "Would you be OK with the Swastika flying/sold/displayed..." is among the STUPIDEST attempted analogies I have ever seen. There is about as blunt an example of a total lack of perspective and flat-out absence of historical knowledge as can be found among people who speak in multi-syllabic speech.


It's about as direct an analogy as you will even see.

Historical knowledge of the mono-sylabic.




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