The REAL Age of The Sphinx Revealed

Came across this response to Schoch's attempt at re-dating the Sphinx:

The Sphinx: dramatising data ... and dating (it's a PDF file) (G. Vandecruys, www.PalArch.nl, archaeology of Egypt/Egyptology, 2006)

And a followup:

Response to Reader (2006): more geological and archaeological data on the Sphinx discussion (PDF file) (G. Vandecruys, www.PalArch.nl, archaeology of Egypt/Egyptology, 2006)

Harte you're being modest, you could have just directed them to your post on UM here that cuts to the chase on Sphinx dating, although it might be verboten to cross post to a rival site...

I really used to love the things these guys put forth, but over the last 15 or 16 years a lot of further research has shown that they are just plain wrong in many, many ways. Sure it would be exciting to discover some massive lost civilization. But I really feel like at this point we can pretty much rule that out. Oh there are surely pockets of people here and there throughout history that we do not know about and never will in some cases, I'm sure. But the idea that there was some master ancient civilization that left hints of its existence everywhere I think has been pretty well crushed at this point by tireless digging and cataloging by thousands and thousands of dedicated men and woman who badly want to find every trace of our collective past. And really, with so many real mysteries out there to investigate, why make things up and chase fairies and rainbows, you know?

originally posted by: jaffo
And really, with so many real mysteries out there to investigate, why make things up and chase fairies and rainbows, you know?

Because pseudo history books outsell real history books at least 2:1 and journalists know how to lie convincingly
Graham Hancock - Journalist
David Hatcher Childress - journalist
Zechariah Sitchin - Journalist
Robert Temple - Journalist

Get the picture

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
a reply to: wasaka

Take 4000BC as Adam's time, 2000BC as Noah's time, that puts 2500BC pre flood making highly irregular erosive forces acting upon it therefore skewing Schoch's observations.

A Bible believer can discount Schoch's theory as easily as the Archeologists. So no Bible thumpers will take him serious and no professionals from the scientific community will take him serious.

Must be Aliens.........oh that is why he appears so regular on Ancient Aliens Television shows.

Humans are capable of remarkable achiviements. I can't doubt we build that thing. it just, it can't be that old.

originally posted by: Blackmarketeer
Harte you're being modest, you could have just directed them to your post on UM here that cuts to the chase on Sphinx dating, although it might be verboten to cross post to a rival site...

Thanks Blackie.

But that post doesn't destroy Schoch's claim like I've done many times.

This poster probably thinks Schoch's date is based on water erosion, so the above post was probably a bit too much.

For everyone, Schoch's date is based on subsurface readings (sonar) of what he claims (no doubt correctly) is weathered limestone in the floor of the enclosure. The sort of weathering he claims is due only to contact with the air, and rain wouldn't have any effect on it at all. He claims that the front of the sphinx is older, and then speculated that the rear was excavated by Khafre. Since weathering extends deeper in the front, he takes his made up Khafre date for the rear and extrapolates the age of the front by comparing the depth of the weathering in the front and in the rear (again, all subsurface.)

Once you realize this, you realize that the way he extrapolates the age requires a uniform bed of limestone.

Once you get this, you look and find that the Giza limestone is not only not uniform, but it is actually embedded with entire coral reefs, meaning that Schoch's weathering would be anything BUT uniform and therefore the age extrapolation is utterly bankrupt.

That's the rebuttal to Schoch that I usually use, shortened here but you can find me using it several times here and elsewhere.

A shorter version is available. Schoch's own data shows that parts of the sphinx's sides are older than the front, if you use Schoch's method for calculating ages with weathering.

But that one is useless against claims made by posters that haven't read Schoch's paper which describes how he arrived at his date.

It's all about the rain to them.


Harte

a reply to: Harte

The origins of the Zodiac go back to at least Babylonian times which is the earliest postulated age of it, the Denderra temple has a 12 signs of the Zodiac located in one of the upper chambers, which i beleive was removed and taken to France, although the Denderra temple is a Ptolemaic aged temple the Zodiac was definitely known well to the Egyptians of the time, so its much older than you make it out to be at the very least. Of course like much else in the modern western world its been hijacked and taken over and mutilated.

originally posted by: BeReasonable
a reply to: Harte

The origins of the Zodiac go back to at least Babylonian times which is the earliest postulated age of it, the Denderra temple has a 12 signs of the Zodiac located in one of the upper chambers, which i beleive was removed and taken to France, although the Denderra temple is a Ptolemaic aged temple the Zodiac was definitely known well to the Egyptians of the time, so its much older than you make it out to be at the very least. Of course like much else in the modern western world its been hijacked and taken over and mutilated.

Actually, I stated that it is older than Babylonia.

I said Sumer.

The problem is, the "Age of Leo" came before anyone ever called that constellation a lion.

Egypt didn't recognize the zodiac until the Greeks put it on them, as you say.

Without the zodiac, there is no "Age of Leo," or any other astrological age, for that matter.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: BeReasonable
a reply to: Harte

The origins of the Zodiac go back to at least Babylonian times which is the earliest postulated age of it, the Denderra temple has a 12 signs of the Zodiac located in one of the upper chambers, which i beleive was removed and taken to France, although the Denderra temple is a Ptolemaic aged temple the Zodiac was definitely known well to the Egyptians of the time, so its much older than you make it out to be at the very least. Of course like much else in the modern western world its been hijacked and taken over and mutilated.

Actually, I stated that it is older than Babylonia.

I said Sumer.

The problem is, the "Age of Leo" came before anyone ever called that constellation a lion.

Egypt didn't recognize the zodiac until the Greeks put it on them, as you say.

Without the zodiac, there is no "Age of Leo," or any other astrological age, for that matter.

Harte

IIRC (And I do)
The Sumerians were the first to start using constellations as date markers around 2600 bce. They appear primarily on cylinder seals which depict the Akitu festival. Which occurred in twice a year, firstly in march when a little picture of the Pleiades conjunction with Venus appears and then again during Scorpio, when it is shown as a scorpion.
Some crazy people think the first depiction proves Aliens, when in fact, it just proves astrology.
The Egyptians didn't get the idea until 500 years later when they started using Decans
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Harte

Oh dear lord !

Facts are known. Any theory has to fit and explain the known facts.

Er how can you rely unwaveringly that These supposed "facts" you mention are real deal & not result from corrupt,political,financial,power fact warping govs.rulers,self servers to begin with. No doubt you will come back with condescending rebuttal.......but don't it seem a tad suss that from back thru millenium a man wittled a twig for christ sake he would pass that ability/knowledge how down like dutybound actions.....it seems knowledge ,learning,recording ,sharing,teaching were a constant . Yet....zoom to present day whereby with our tech. we cant even replicate them & sure as # can't construct a road to stand test of time yet we all around record,teach,learn,share all triumphs,duds & inbetweens still so obviously hats off to the uber smarts who did build the stuff......They superior intelligence hands down........Oh 1 thing though they ...silly brainiest walkers of this earth ....DOH ! forgot to record,teach,learn,share..Why ? The most beautiful,enigmatic,insanely exact & precise & supposedly human races most significant standout unbeatable achievement ( whenever & whoever ....if so ) & just so happens to coincide when the smartest inhabitants ever decide to drop the ball & dumb ass down to the "forgetting" of recording it. Pffft really ?? It's ok to admit we obviously don't know the answers to all lifes questions.Granted they are in egypt so technically yes they are theirs.**sarcasm alert ** Dunno though I just suppose humans NOW don't lie,cheat,kill,supress,denounce & get greedy,corrupt,self serving wrongly empowered morally deadened.Men kill fellow men for believing different beliefs because those men are right & beliefs rule lusting on false power & love yet not possible for those wishing to to alter facts & true history if/when discovered....Content to ignorantly force their agenda beliefs & corrupted power over others** ?
Face it....they are not mans doing! we can't explain em,date em,replicate em or even agree about em.....oh except that AE knocked em up.That we are definate about !!! Man I dunno....just I just dunno.....
Go 4 it .........Flame away clever folk !!:

a reply to: fotsyfots

Thanks for that rant
I would suggest you now go out and read an Egyptology book (one not written by a journalist) so that in future your knowledge is derived from facts rather than ignorance.

originally posted by: fotsyfots
a reply to: Harte

Oh dear lord !

Facts are known. Any theory has to fit and explain the known facts.

Er how can you rely unwaveringly that These supposed "facts" you mention are real deal & not result from corrupt,political,financial,power fact warping govs.rulers,self servers to begin with. No doubt you will come back with condescending rebuttal.......but don't it seem a tad suss that from back thru millenium a man wittled a twig for christ sake he would pass that ability/knowledge how down like dutybound actions.....it seems knowledge ,learning,recording ,sharing,teaching were a constant . Yet....zoom to present day whereby with our tech. we cant even replicate them & sure as # can't construct a road to stand test of time yet we all around record,teach,learn,share all triumphs,duds & inbetweens still so obviously hats off to the uber smarts who did build the stuff......They superior intelligence hands down........Oh 1 thing though they ...silly brainiest walkers of this earth ....DOH ! forgot to record,teach,learn,share..Why ? The most beautiful,enigmatic,insanely exact & precise & supposedly human races most significant standout unbeatable achievement ( whenever & whoever ....if so ) & just so happens to coincide when the smartest inhabitants ever decide to drop the ball & dumb ass down to the "forgetting" of recording it. Pffft really ?? It's ok to admit we obviously don't know the answers to all lifes questions.Granted they are in egypt so technically yes they are theirs.**sarcasm alert ** Dunno though I just suppose humans NOW don't lie,cheat,kill,supress,denounce & get greedy,corrupt,self serving wrongly empowered morally deadened.Men kill fellow men for believing different beliefs because those men are right & beliefs rule lusting on false power & love yet not possible for those wishing to to alter facts & true history if/when discovered....Content to ignorantly force their agenda beliefs & corrupted power over others** ?
Face it....they are not mans doing! we can't explain em,date em,replicate em or even agree about em.....oh except that AE knocked em up.That we are definate about !!! Man I dunno....just I just dunno.....
Go 4 it .........Flame away clever folk !!

:

You assert that we couldn't "build" the Sphinx today?

Right. We've "forgotten" how to carve a figure from stone then?

You don't use your brain very much, do you?

Harte

a reply to: wasaka

By looking at the statue, you can easily see that the head is far too small for the body and is out of proportion, which Schoch confirmed scientifically.

Not only is it out of proportion, it is a human head, not a lion's. I wonder why Schoch didn't notice that minor detail?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: wasaka

By looking at the statue, you can easily see that the head is far too small for the body and is out of proportion, which Schoch confirmed scientifically.

Not only is it out of proportion, it is a human head, not a lion's. I wonder why Schoch didn't notice that minor detail?

When it was discovered wasn't it all but buried? Only for the head to be dug out just to see it buried again, if my memory serves me right.

Perhaps the original builders were gone and it was rediscovered in antiquity (body buried) and recarved in human form. The head does after all look whittled down. And just pulling random crap from my head, but wasn't there a matriarchy that existed around that worshiped lion/dog before the time of the Pharaohs?

I think Jean-pierre Houdin´s explanations are quite sufficient.
All can be explained with the geological and architectural realities at Giza plateau without any problem.

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