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Protesters halt construction of Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT) atop Mauna Kea, Hawaii

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posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 11:09 PM
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The planned resumption in construction of the TMT at the top of Mauna Kea, the highest mountain in the Hawaiian Islands, was halted today through the efforts of hundreds of protestors who blocked the road leading up the mountain with rocks, boulders, and their own bodies.

Reports state that 11 were arrested in the showdown, but that construction crews were forced to turn around rather than resume work that began in October of last year.

The planned construction has been a serious matter of debate on the Big Island. I personally witnessed many, many people lining the roadways of the island today in a show of solidarity with the protesters who blocked access to the top of the mountain. Construction was halted in April to address the concerns of those opposed to the work, and set to resume today. Evidently that did not happen.

Links:
www.civilbeat.com...
www.kitv.com...
www.hawaiinewsnow.com...

Many more to be found. Thoughts, opinions?




posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 11:12 PM
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The last article said sacred.

In what way?



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 11:24 PM
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a reply to: seagull

My understanding is that Hawaiians believe that the mountain is the home or meeting place of the sky mother and sky father of their religion. Not being Hawaiian myself, it is entirely possible that I do not have the story correct. However, I can say that the mountain is indeed held sacred by many.



posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 11:39 PM
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Indigenous peoples' beliefs are only important to Western society (and even then primarily as a manipulative tool) when they do not interfere with scientific "progress" or economic development.

But if said beliefs get in the way of either of those two things, f# those people. Especially if it has anything to do with religion.

I applaud the sentiment of the protesters, but...

...it's just protesting. If protesting is all we've got, they'll get whatever it is they want. Eventually.




posted on Jun, 24 2015 @ 11:56 PM
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a reply to: NthOther

Your post rings true. Whatever my own opinion on the matter may be, I don't believe for a moment that protesting will halt the construction in the long run.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 12:38 AM
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originally posted by: VariableConstant

Your post rings true. Whatever my own opinion on the matter may be, I don't believe for a moment that protesting will halt the construction in the long run.

It will never stop, unfortunately. We sure like to think we've left all that indigenous oppression stuff way in the past, but...

...today, in my backyard, they're clearing the way for a (another) massive uranium mine within a stone's throw of the Grand Canyon, which they also, ironically, want to develop into a mini-resort town. This, of course, is after "they" got their litigious permission to use reclaimed waste water to manufacture artificial snow for a resort on a mountain considered sacred to numerous tribes. Literally pissing all over the mountain.

Nothing is sacred to these monsters, and nothing has really changed much since the days of Indian Removal. They are now finishing the cultural annihilation started five hundred years ago with lawsuits instead of bullets.

Oh wait, but this is in the name of science, so it's ok.


edit on 6/25/15 by NthOther because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 12:57 AM
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This is a tough one.

I support science, and huge telescopes belong on places like...mountains. Since this is the highest mountain in the Hawaiin islands, I'm sure it would yield the best possible research of it's kind in the region.

However, I also support indigenous peoples' concerns about what they deem to be "sacred".

Hmmm...
edit on 25-6-2015 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 01:00 AM
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a picture of the summit area of Mauna Kea :



just for context


now my opinion - there are lots of reasons not to to build new projects on mountain tops - but religious beliefs is not a valid one
edit on 25-6-2015 by ignorant_ape because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 01:04 AM
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originally posted by: ignorant_ape

just for context

It's already trashed, so it's ok to make it worse?


now my opinion - there are lots of reasons not to to build new projects on mountain tops - but religious beliefs is not a valid one

Why not?



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 01:09 AM
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a reply to: ignorant_ape

If the proposed area is already littered with telescopes then why not?

Science does have to come first at some point, if there was a dinosaur astronomer or 2 there might still be dinosaurs.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 04:26 AM
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originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: ignorant_ape

just for context

It's already trashed, so it's ok to make it worse?


now my opinion - there are lots of reasons not to to build new projects on mountain tops - but religious beliefs is not a valid one

Why not?


Because science and the advsncement of the human race is a higher priority than fairytales. Simple. So a few thousand people get a bit upset..frankly, i couldnt care less. Grow up, stop believeing in fairytales and move forward.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 05:05 AM
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originally posted by: 3danimator2014

Because science and the advsncement of the human race is a higher priority than fairytales. Simple. So a few thousand people get a bit upset..frankly, i couldnt care less. Grow up, stop believeing in fairytales and move forward.

This attitude is exactly what allowed for an entire continent of people to be ruthlessly butchered. I can imagine Coronado saying something similar to the former inhabitants of where I now live, except he probably used religion and trade instead of science. Makes no difference.

Re-read my first post.

Yep. To hell with those people, right? That's basically what you just said, and that's exactly what you'll continue doing.

So much for your advanced, tolerant civilization.




posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 05:10 AM
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Whats up with impotent Gods who can't fend for themselves these days?



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 05:38 AM
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originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

Because science and the advsncement of the human race is a higher priority than fairytales. Simple. So a few thousand people get a bit upset..frankly, i couldnt care less. Grow up, stop believeing in fairytales and move forward.

This attitude is exactly what allowed for an entire continent of people to be ruthlessly butchered. I can imagine Coronado saying something similar to the former inhabitants of where I now live, except he probably used religion and trade instead of science. Makes no difference.

Re-read my first post.

Yep. To hell with those people, right? That's basically what you just said, and that's exactly what you'll continue doing.

So much for your advanced, tolerant civilization.



Oh please..what a drama queen. Is anyone killing them? Butchering them? Are the astromers raping their women? here are aleady many telescopes up there. If it really is a sacred mountain then any god should be happy that man is pushing and advancing technologicaly.

This is nothing but a few people with too much time on their hands. And as long as its for the betterment of mankind and its for peaceful purposes then yes, the needs of the many (the scientific community and the whole earth) outweigh the needs of the few.

They are not building a super luxurious spa retreat for celebreties...calm down.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 06:29 AM
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a reply to: VariableConstant

The difficulty here is that Mauna Kea is the best place for these telescopes, because it is highly elevated and is on an island, which means that there is a much smaller light pollution problem than there would otherwise be, if the mountain was in the middle of a massive continent, surrounded by huge mega cities and the huge splashes of light they produce at night.

Also, it must be said that there are already telescopes on the mountain. That having been said, I do wonder how much protest there was at the previous installations of telescopes on the mountain. I also wonder whether previous protests having been unsuccessful, will make locals more likely to act more directly against the entire scientific community on Hawaii in general.

While I respect science immensely, I believe it is a tool to take us into the future. There is little point however, in arriving in the future, if all that is left of us by the time we do so, is a spiritually vacant version of our species.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 08:49 AM
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originally posted by: seagull
The last article said sacred.

In what way?


Many groups in Hawaii claim anything "sacred" to stall construction and get a payout. It is why H3 came in decades late and billions over budget.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 09:19 AM
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originally posted by: Lysergic
Whats up with impotent Gods who can't fend for themselves these days?


Meh.....She's preoccupied right now, on the other side of the island wreaking havoc with Kilauea!



Heh, I watched the eruption of Mauna Loa in 1984, safely from the top of Mt Haleakala on the island of Maui, and it was still awesome and terrifying! I swear you could feel the ground shaking.

I remember there were large protest when they were implementing Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiated, SDI (Star Wars). Whatever they were doing up there at that time, it caused a lot of wild life problems, birds biting their own legs off, dolphins and whales behaving strangely......
edit on 25-6-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 09:37 AM
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a reply to: NthOther



It's already trashed, so it's ok to make it worse?


its not " trashed " - but yup - there are already 8 facilities up there pluss all the infrastructure .

building one more males more sense than starting again on a mointain that has no development


Why not?


because i do not accept the premise of :

" my imaginary friend lives there "

as a valid reason to modify my behaviour



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 09:39 AM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

sadly this behavious is world wide - protest groups seieze on any strategy that " works " .



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 01:28 PM
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a reply to: seagull

Mauna kea is sacred because according to the kumulipo (the Hawaiian creation story) it is the piko (belly button) or lifeline for the people here on earth to their ancestors. Papa and Wakea, mother earth and father sky came together and produced their first child, Mauna A Wakea.




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