Consciousness Has Less Control Than Believed, According To New Theory

Consciousness -- the internal dialogue that seems to govern one's thoughts and actions -- is far less powerful than people believe, serving as a passive conduit rather than an active force that exerts control, according to a new theory proposed by an SF State researcher.

Associate Professor of Psychology Ezequiel Morsella's "Passive Frame Theory" suggests that the conscious mind is like an interpreter helping speakers of different languages communicate.

"The interpreter presents the information but is not the one making any arguments or acting upon the knowledge that is shared," Morsella said. "Similarly, the information we perceive in our consciousness is not created by conscious processes, nor is it reacted to by conscious processes. Consciousness is the middle-man, and it doesn't do as much work as you think."

According to Morsella's framework, the "free will" that people typically attribute to their conscious mind -- the idea that our consciousness, as a "decider," guides us to a course of action -- does not exist. Instead, consciousness only relays information to control "voluntary" action, or goal-oriented movement involving the skeletal muscle system.

Compare consciousness to the Internet, Morsella suggested. The Internet can be used to buy books, reserve a hotel room and complete thousands of other tasks. Taken at face value, it would seem incredibly powerful. But, in actuality, a person in front of a laptop or clicking away on a smartphone is running the show -- the Internet is just being made to perform the same basic process, without any free will of its own.

Contine Read

Bare with me here I am trying to figure this out , assuming his theory is suggesting that something more powerful than "consciousness" acts as a controlling mechanism ? huh ? the soul maybe ? god ? matrix ?

I am still trying to wrap my head around this , but in the mean time Ill put this out there to you folks for some input .

humbly

Kap.

i hve consiousness but im sure many dont i feel evrything in the univere and close to god
which is consiousness

cows have more consiousness ass most people

I think this may suffer from semantics interfering with understanding. If consciousness is used in this context as our conscious thought, and we find out it's a result of unconscious forces at play under our surface of awareness, then I'm not sure that fully negates a will. I think that points to our will being below conscious awareness.

I'm about 540 or so days sober right now. I did this from conscious reasoning, but underneath it felt like a feeling I finally connected with. Something that had been waiting to come to fruition, bubble to the surface of my awareness in full. How does this play into the science presented?

Am I left to believe that the events and my genetic propensities are what eventuated my sobriety, and my reasoning which seemed to channel the feeling towards beneficial results was actually a rationalizing, and retrospective act for my own ego needs? This one boggles my mind a bit, but I do find it interesting.

See this right here in the article towards the bottom:

The theory has major implications for the study of mental disorders, Morsella said. "Why do you have an urge or thought that you shouldn't be having? Because, in a sense, the consciousness system doesn't know that you shouldn't be thinking about something," Morsella said. "An urge generator doesn't know that an urge is irrelevant to other thoughts or ongoing action."

These researchers seems to have developed little meta-cognition. You can teach yourself to focus elsehwere, and choose elsewise from what's in your conscious thought. I'm fully aware of being able to calm the feedback mechanisms of thoughts that would otherwise grow if I pay them mind. Yea, I'm not buying this. My experience clashes pretty hard with what they're saying. It's cool to think about, but I think they focused on one way in which the mind flows, and negated the other. As if they really wanted to go against the flow to gain recognition. I think the reality is consciousness is both receptive and directive to unconscious processes. Perhaps the people they hooked up to their gadgetry were not sufficiently developed.

Its beyond BS. We interface with this, machine for lack of better word, made out of nothing, hologram. We are infinite parts of infinity, and infinite branches connected to the infinite vines.

All you gotta do is check inside and ask some questions.

Perhaps people need to do some tests on consciousness, and send some love to people, in meditation, and get phone calls out of the blue, just like magic.

originally posted by: negedef
i hve consiousness but im sure many dont i feel evrything in the univere and close to god
which is consciousness
cows have more consiousness ass most people

Consciousness means I am "self aware"; (to put it simply) when looking at myself in a mirror I recognize [SEEING PERCIEVING] that SAME being I am observing/reflected is ME, an individualized soul.

a reply to: Kapusta

This is interesting. I can add something to help you get your head around it, maybe.

How you feel is who you are. Therefore it is the feeling you, lets call it the 'senscious' you as opposed to the conscious you, that is in fact running the show.

I don't want to go off topic but imo most of psychology is simply profiling and very little science. They include neuroscience and endocrinology but have absolutely no base. If they did they would surely use more anthropology to come to a conclusion of what the human condition actually is rather than judge everything based on what is "normal" behavior (which is really an ethnocentric model)
Consciousness is a metaphysical subject which is very difficult to discuss with science. Psychology today bases everything on what we want normal people to be like. For instance in a hypothetical if the workforce/society needed more add people for a certain function that would become normal and we would medicate the current normal to be add to fit into society. As far as I know psychology and the drugs prescribed are like taking aspirin to lower a fever from a disease we don't understand. Once you stop taking the aspirin the fever is still there and the disease is worse.
(not to say it doesn't help some people and some extreme cases)

How can a pseudoscience like psychology make this claim?

Thinking is not something we do most of the time. Thought, rather, is mostly something that "happens" to us.

At least that's what I've been noticing lately.

When I pay really close attention to what my consciousness consists of from moment to moment, I find, at bottom, a flux of interior monologue, mental imagery and physical sensations.

I also find that - for the most part - I am no more "in control of" my interior monologue and mental imagery (together, "my thoughts") than I am of the physical sensations I experience. All three aspects seem to simply occur.

It's a strange thing to realize.

a reply to: Kapusta
Consciousness is a trick!

a reply to: Kapusta

Actually I think he makes a good point, especially right here.

According to Morsella's framework, the "free will" that people typically attribute to their conscious mind -- the idea that our consciousness, as a "decider," guides us to a course of action -- does not exist. Instead, consciousness only relays information to control "voluntary" action, or goal-oriented movement involving the skeletal muscle system.

We can't actively control most functions in our bodies at all. We can temporarily control our breathing, but usually it is automatic. And we have no control at all over our immune systems, digestive system, or the routine functions of our cells (among others). So we literally have no control over the vast majority of our body's functions. Though I do believe the consciousness exists, just in a limited role.

I've long compared the human body to a mega city full of trillions of human cells & trillions of foreign microbe cells. Those cells work together to fulfill our soul's desires, while maintaining their own health and functionality. This also backs up my theory that the human body is simply a vessel for our souls that allows our souls to interact with this dimension/Universe. Our "soul" is simply the "pilot" while the trillions of cells that make up the "vessel" do all of the heavy lifting. In other words, their job is to serve our souls as long as our soul is anchored to this dimension.

(I also believe this is Shaytan's biggest reason for envying us, because jinn don't have the ability to interact with this universe physically the way our "vessels/bodies" can. But that's another topic.)

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Kapusta

Actually I think he makes a good point, especially right here.

According to Morsella's framework, the "free will" that people typically attribute to their conscious mind -- the idea that our consciousness, as a "decider," guides us to a course of action -- does not exist. Instead, consciousness only relays information to control "voluntary" action, or goal-oriented movement involving the skeletal muscle system.

We can't actively control most functions in our bodies at all. We can temporarily control our breathing, but usually it is automatic. And we have no control at all over our immune systems, digestive system, or the routine functions of our cells (among others). So we literally have no control over the vast majority of our body's functions. Though I do believe the consciousness exists, just in a limited role.

I've long compared the human body to a mega city full of trillions of human cells & trillions of foreign microbe cells. Those cells work together to fulfill our soul's desires, while maintaining their own health and functionality. This also backs up my theory that the human body is simply a vessel for our souls that allows our souls to interact with this dimension/Universe. Our "soul" is simply the "pilot" while the trillions of cells that make up the "vessel" do all of the heavy lifting. In other words, their job is to serve our souls as long as our soul is anchored to this dimension.

(I also believe this is Shaytan's biggest reason for envying us, because jinn don't have the ability to interact with this universe physically the way our "vessels/bodies" can. But that's another topic.)

I dont know if thats true. A lot of study has been done in neuroscience lately on meditation that contradict this. Especially from life long meditators like tibetan monks. Even being able to increase their theta waves..

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Kapusta

Actually I think he makes a good point, especially right here.

According to Morsella's framework, the "free will" that people typically attribute to their conscious mind -- the idea that our consciousness, as a "decider," guides us to a course of action -- does not exist. Instead, consciousness only relays information to control "voluntary" action, or goal-oriented movement involving the skeletal muscle system.

We can't actively control most functions in our bodies at all. We can temporarily control our breathing, but usually it is automatic. And we have no control at all over our immune systems, digestive system, or the routine functions of our cells (among others). So we literally have no control over the vast majority of our body's functions. Though I do believe the consciousness exists, just in a limited role.

I've long compared the human body to a mega city full of trillions of human cells & trillions of foreign microbe cells. Those cells work together to fulfill our soul's desires, while maintaining their own health and functionality. This also backs up my theory that the human body is simply a vessel for our souls that allows our souls to interact with this dimension/Universe. Our "soul" is simply the "pilot" while the trillions of cells that make up the "vessel" do all of the heavy lifting. In other words, their job is to serve our souls as long as our soul is anchored to this dimension.

(I also believe this is Shaytan's biggest reason for envying us, because jinn don't have the ability to interact with this universe physically the way our "vessels/bodies" can. But that's another topic.)

I dont know if thats true. A lot of study has been done in neuroscience lately on meditation that contradict this. Especially from life long meditators like tibetan monks. Even being able to increase their theta waves..

All that means is that humans can learn to control a little more of our bodies' functions with extreme effort. A lot of it is just "acclimation", where the bodies get used to new circumstances. It's the same for people who continuously ingest poisons like alcohol, until their bodies build up a tolerance for it. Our consciousness has no control over making our cells tolerant or intolerant to it.

And even those monks can't stop their blood cells from absorbing or redistributing oxygen. They can't stop their bodies from extracting calcium from their bones to neutralize any acids we eat (which the body does to every acid we ingest). And they also can't stop the muscles at the base of their hair follicles from contracting when they get cold (an involuntary action also known as "getting goosebumps).

We can't determine how food gets ingested or where those resources are distributed throughout our bodies, and we have no control over the reproduction of our cells either. All we can do is eat enough nutrients/substances & let our bodies do the rest. I could go on with many more examples like stopping our mitochondria from working or getting our joints to stop self-lubricating, but I think you get the point. We have no conscious control over the vast majority of our body's functions.

This is the principle I try to explain when I repeatedly turn back to an experiment I saw in which a patient scheduled for brain surgery, with their brain exposed, had electrodes attached to various parts of it, which could stimulate certain areas and provoke some sort of reaction.

So a person chatted with them while certain areas were stimulated at random moments.

When the action of laughing was stimulated, the interviewer asked the person why they laughed.
They thought for a second, obviously reflecting on the moment that just passed, making associations,
and proclaimed that they laughed because they had glanced at a fork on the table at that moment.

She claimed forks are funny, hence her laughter. She remained adamant that that was the cause, and that she finds forks funny, in their shape or something. She had never before found forks funny. But curiously, continued to find them funny and laugh for a long time after this experiment. Whenever someone held one up, she cracked up!

If one considers this, and the way we know our reactions can be stimulated by sensual input below the radar of our conscious awareness (sounds, smells, light waves, subtle body language...) then the way the conscious mind interprets cause-effect associations effectively programs future behavior!

Imagine we pick up the smells of a man who has pheromones that indicate high testosterone and a radically different immune system in a room- we feel attracted towards him, and certain physiological changes happen in our body in reaction.

If we try to determine, consciously, what it is that caused that feeling, we could be way off- "it was his mustache- mustaches turn me on" , or his muscular arms, or the green hat he wore...) We program in ourselves a potential for the same reaction the next time we come across a man with the same thing we have designated as the stimulation.

So that conscious inner dialogue could be way out of touch with a large part of the interactions happening between the exterior and self.
For some the conclusion to be pulled from that is- don't bother to ever form any concepts of the nature of relation between the body and the exterior. Just let it go.
Personally, I find that that is fine in some circumstances, and in others, it can be useful. There are things that can be useful to pre-program yourself for, and that contribute to you co-creating your experiences.

a reply to: Bluesma

Good point. Almost like it's a coping mechanism that helps us come to terms with our environments.

Also, this part made me laugh:

Imagine we pick up the smells of a man who has pheromones that indicate high testosterone and a radically different immune system in a room- we feel attracted towards him, and certain physiological changes happen in our body in reaction.

I used to tell my best friend (a woman) that "man stench" is really the "smell of the alpha male", and that our distant ancestors recognized it as the males who were so strong they didn't need to worry about offending others. So when our ancestors caught a whiff of it, they either ran from fear of the alpha or tried to get the alpha to tone down his intimidating/"manly" aura. She would just tell me "no" & to go take a shower lol I was joking at the time, but maybe there's something to it.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Kapusta

Actually I think he makes a good point, especially right here.

According to Morsella's framework, the "free will" that people typically attribute to their conscious mind -- the idea that our consciousness, as a "decider," guides us to a course of action -- does not exist. Instead, consciousness only relays information to control "voluntary" action, or goal-oriented movement involving the skeletal muscle system.

We can't actively control most functions in our bodies at all. We can temporarily control our breathing, but usually it is automatic. And we have no control at all over our immune systems, digestive system, or the routine functions of our cells (among others). So we literally have no control over the vast majority of our body's functions. Though I do believe the consciousness exists, just in a limited role.

I've long compared the human body to a mega city full of trillions of human cells & trillions of foreign microbe cells. Those cells work together to fulfill our soul's desires, while maintaining their own health and functionality. This also backs up my theory that the human body is simply a vessel for our souls that allows our souls to interact with this dimension/Universe. Our "soul" is simply the "pilot" while the trillions of cells that make up the "vessel" do all of the heavy lifting. In other words, their job is to serve our souls as long as our soul is anchored to this dimension.

(I also believe this is Shaytan's biggest reason for envying us, because jinn don't have the ability to interact with this universe physically the way our "vessels/bodies" can. But that's another topic.)

I dont know if thats true. A lot of study has been done in neuroscience lately on meditation that contradict this. Especially from life long meditators like tibetan monks. Even being able to increase their theta waves..

All that means is that humans can learn to control a little more of our bodies' functions with extreme effort. A lot of it is just "acclimation", where the bodies get used to new circumstances. It's the same for people who continuously ingest poisons like alcohol, until their bodies build up a tolerance for it. Our consciousness has no control over making our cells tolerant or intolerant to it.

And even those monks can't stop their blood cells from absorbing or redistributing oxygen. They can't stop their bodies from extracting calcium from their bones to neutralize any acids we eat (which the body does to every acid we ingest). And they also can't stop the muscles at the base of their hair follicles from contracting when they get cold (an involuntary action also known as "getting goosebumps).

We can't determine how food gets ingested or where those resources are distributed throughout our bodies, and we have no control over the reproduction of our cells either. All we can do is eat enough nutrients/substances & let our bodies do the rest. I could go on with many more examples like stopping our mitochondria from working or getting our joints to stop self-lubricating, but I think you get the point. We have no conscious control over the vast majority of our body's functions.

Again there are studies on meditation and body control. I dont think you can say any of that definitively. Slowing breath heartbeat, digestion etc to unfathomable levels. There are ascetics that have been studied in india who have slowed their matabolism down so much they only eat nettles once a month.
I am not even going to mention the anectdotal stories but science is recording this stuff now. Its not just hocus pocus.

The monks in the syracuse university study had incredible brain wave patterns and used both lobes of the brain at the same time. Its a remarkable study. There are many out of india as well. I will try and make a list tomorrow of links to science journals. I need to sleep now though.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Kapusta

Actually I think he makes a good point, especially right here.

According to Morsella's framework, the "free will" that people typically attribute to their conscious mind -- the idea that our consciousness, as a "decider," guides us to a course of action -- does not exist. Instead, consciousness only relays information to control "voluntary" action, or goal-oriented movement involving the skeletal muscle system.

We can't actively control most functions in our bodies at all. We can temporarily control our breathing, but usually it is automatic. And we have no control at all over our immune systems, digestive system, or the routine functions of our cells (among others). So we literally have no control over the vast majority of our body's functions. Though I do believe the consciousness exists, just in a limited role.

I've long compared the human body to a mega city full of trillions of human cells & trillions of foreign microbe cells. Those cells work together to fulfill our soul's desires, while maintaining their own health and functionality. This also backs up my theory that the human body is simply a vessel for our souls that allows our souls to interact with this dimension/Universe. Our "soul" is simply the "pilot" while the trillions of cells that make up the "vessel" do all of the heavy lifting. In other words, their job is to serve our souls as long as our soul is anchored to this dimension.

(I also believe this is Shaytan's biggest reason for envying us, because jinn don't have the ability to interact with this universe physically the way our "vessels/bodies" can. But that's another topic.)

I dont know if thats true. A lot of study has been done in neuroscience lately on meditation that contradict this. Especially from life long meditators like tibetan monks. Even being able to increase their theta waves..

All that means is that humans can learn to control a little more of our bodies' functions with extreme effort. A lot of it is just "acclimation", where the bodies get used to new circumstances. It's the same for people who continuously ingest poisons like alcohol, until their bodies build up a tolerance for it. Our consciousness has no control over making our cells tolerant or intolerant to it.

And even those monks can't stop their blood cells from absorbing or redistributing oxygen. They can't stop their bodies from extracting calcium from their bones to neutralize any acids we eat (which the body does to every acid we ingest). And they also can't stop the muscles at the base of their hair follicles from contracting when they get cold (an involuntary action also known as "getting goosebumps).

We can't determine how food gets ingested or where those resources are distributed throughout our bodies, and we have no control over the reproduction of our cells either. All we can do is eat enough nutrients/substances & let our bodies do the rest. I could go on with many more examples like stopping our mitochondria from working or getting our joints to stop self-lubricating, but I think you get the point. We have no conscious control over the vast majority of our body's functions.

Again there are studies on meditation and body control. I dont think you can say any of that definitively. Slowing breath heartbeat, digestion etc to unfathomable levels. There are ascetics that have been studied in india who have slowed their matabolism down so much they only eat nettles once a month.
I am not even going to mention the anectdotal stories but science is recording this stuff now. Its not just hocus pocus.

The monks in the syracuse university study had incredible brain wave patterns and used both lobes of the brain at the same time. Its a remarkable study. There are many out of india as well. I will try and make a list tomorrow of links to science journals. I need to sleep now though.

I'm not saying it's hocus pocus. In fact, I said "that humans can learn to control a little more of our bodies' functions with extreme effort." You're not disagreeing with that & neither am I.

However, those same monks can't control the daily functions of any of the other examples I gave either. And even if they temporarily could, it would be temporary. Just as we can temporarily control our breathing, even though it's usually automatic. Or do you think those monks can control how many times they breathe per hour while they're asleep (as in, they say they'll breathe 372 times the first hour, 443 times the 2nd hour, etc, then do it while completely asleep)? And those monks can't control the actions of the billions of cells in their digestive tract. They can only get their bodies to become acclimated to starvation. The trillions of cells do the actual work.

I mean, come on. What human can direct any specific cell to do something? None! Even with our muscular system, we can only control the entire muscle. We can't make a specific white blood cell attack or stand down. We can't force a specific blob of bone marrow to produce more or fewer red blood cells. And we can't tell out fingers to stop growing fingernails. All we can do is something vague like reach for a cup, and the billions of cells act on their own to fulfill our thought.

I think you're underestimating the fact that there are trillions of cells in our bodies. Some are completely independent of their surroundings, absorb nutrients from their surroundings, and will stay alive as long as they have adequate nutrients surrounding them (like in a petri dish). No human can control the actions of those individual cells.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Congratulations on you sobriety! Keep up the good work! I wish you and yours much happiness and joy! PEACE.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Kapusta

Actually I think he makes a good point, especially right here.

According to Morsella's framework, the "free will" that people typically attribute to their conscious mind -- the idea that our consciousness, as a "decider," guides us to a course of action -- does not exist. Instead, consciousness only relays information to control "voluntary" action, or goal-oriented movement involving the skeletal muscle system.

We can't actively control most functions in our bodies at all. We can temporarily control our breathing, but usually it is automatic. And we have no control at all over our immune systems, digestive system, or the routine functions of our cells (among others). So we literally have no control over the vast majority of our body's functions. Though I do believe the consciousness exists, just in a limited role.

I've long compared the human body to a mega city full of trillions of human cells & trillions of foreign microbe cells. Those cells work together to fulfill our soul's desires, while maintaining their own health and functionality. This also backs up my theory that the human body is simply a vessel for our souls that allows our souls to interact with this dimension/Universe. Our "soul" is simply the "pilot" while the trillions of cells that make up the "vessel" do all of the heavy lifting. In other words, their job is to serve our souls as long as our soul is anchored to this dimension.

(I also believe this is Shaytan's biggest reason for envying us, because jinn don't have the ability to interact with this universe physically the way our "vessels/bodies" can. But that's another topic.)

I dont know if thats true. A lot of study has been done in neuroscience lately on meditation that contradict this. Especially from life long meditators like tibetan monks. Even being able to increase their theta waves..

All that means is that humans can learn to control a little more of our bodies' functions with extreme effort. A lot of it is just "acclimation", where the bodies get used to new circumstances. It's the same for people who continuously ingest poisons like alcohol, until their bodies build up a tolerance for it. Our consciousness has no control over making our cells tolerant or intolerant to it.

And even those monks can't stop their blood cells from absorbing or redistributing oxygen. They can't stop their bodies from extracting calcium from their bones to neutralize any acids we eat (which the body does to every acid we ingest). And they also can't stop the muscles at the base of their hair follicles from contracting when they get cold (an involuntary action also known as "getting goosebumps).

We can't determine how food gets ingested or where those resources are distributed throughout our bodies, and we have no control over the reproduction of our cells either. All we can do is eat enough nutrients/substances & let our bodies do the rest. I could go on with many more examples like stopping our mitochondria from working or getting our joints to stop self-lubricating, but I think you get the point. We have no conscious control over the vast majority of our body's functions.

Again there are studies on meditation and body control. I dont think you can say any of that definitively. Slowing breath heartbeat, digestion etc to unfathomable levels. There are ascetics that have been studied in india who have slowed their matabolism down so much they only eat nettles once a month.
I am not even going to mention the anectdotal stories but science is recording this stuff now. Its not just hocus pocus.

The monks in the syracuse university study had incredible brain wave patterns and used both lobes of the brain at the same time. Its a remarkable study. There are many out of india as well. I will try and make a list tomorrow of links to science journals. I need to sleep now though.

I'm not saying it's hocus pocus. In fact, I said "that humans can learn to control a little more of our bodies' functions with extreme effort." You're not disagreeing with that & neither am I.

However, those same monks can't control the daily functions of any of the other examples I gave either. And even if they temporarily could, it would be temporary. Just as we can temporarily control our breathing, even though it's usually automatic. Or do you think those monks can control how many times they breathe per hour while they're asleep (as in, they say they'll breathe 372 times the first hour, 443 times the 2nd hour, etc, then do it while completely asleep)? And those monks can't control the actions of the billions of cells in their digestive tract. They can only get their bodies to become acclimated to starvation. The trillions of cells do the actual work.

I mean, come on. What human can direct any specific cell to do something? None! Even with our muscular system, we can only control the entire muscle. We can't make a specific white blood cell attack or stand down. We can't force a specific blob of bone marrow to produce more or fewer red blood cells. And we can't tell out fingers to stop growing fingernails. All we can do is something vague like reach for a cup, and the billions of cells act on their own to fulfill our thought.

I think you're underestimating the fact that there are trillions of cells in our bodies. Some are completely independent of their surroundings, absorb nutrients from their surroundings, and will stay alive as long as they have adequate nutrients surrounding them (like in a petri dish). No human can control the actions of those individual cells.

Ok please read these posts.

Meditation and the ability to change dna.
www.scientificamerican.com...

www.iflscience.com...

4 on heart and brain

blog.ted.com...

Controlling body temperature

www.sciencedaily.com...

7,ways meditation can alter the brain.

www.forbes.com...

Brain waves and meditation

www.sciencedaily.com...

I get what you are saying but this information contradicts your article substancially. Consciousness is in fact something that can control the body and its functions. There are many things in these articles that contradict your report. If we want to debate them one by one we should but, first just read through this.

Sure we may not have found or know if we can control some of what you refer to but maybe there just hasnt been a study yet. Meditation can effect the body on a cellular level which is in contradiction to the piece. Does it really have to control every cell to discredit this report? I dont think so.

a reply to: luthier

No it doesn't. That's all acclimation and adaption. We still don't have conscious control over those specific systems or cells. Getting our bodies to adapt to new circumstances is nothing at all like consciously controlling individual cells to do specific things.

Like I said, we can't even consciously control our breathing when we sleep. Or consciously control which bone grows at specific rates. And who can say "now" and make their fingernails grow or contract? That's the point I'm making. Our consciousness has no control whatsoever over nearly all of our bodily functions. All we can do is try to stimulate our bodies, provide our bodies with nutrients/substances, and then wait for a result. That's not controlling something.

I've taken anatomy & physiology, so I think that maybe you're underestimating how many functions our bodies do automatically. Even our best engineers can't replicate a "simple" human hand. Because we would have to make them self-healing, skin generating, with a defense system that isolates & eliminates any foreign threat, with growing nails, with a microscopic fluid circulation system, with a microscopic waste filtration system, self lubricating at the joints, etc. And that doesn't include the self healing & self growing bone/skeletal & muscle systems (levers, pulleys, rods, and joints).

All the meditation in the world isn't going to grant a person power over those functions.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I hope you realize this has little to nothing to do with the actual OP. Not sure why you're debating this. Nobody seriously thinks we're in control of our autonomous functions in full, and the OP is talking about the role consciousness has on things like free will. Nothing to do with what you're talking about.