US spied on French presidents too , anyone really surprised ?

Wikileaks has released NSA files which reveal the US spied on Presidents Jacques Chirac, Nicolas Sarkozy and Francois Hollande between 06 and 2012 , I wonder when they'll release the ones showing we British were also spied on or does the "Special Relationship" guard us from that .... I guess probably not.

On Tuesday, Wikileaks said it began publishing the files under the heading "Espionnage Elysee" - a reference to the French presidential palace.
It said the secret files "derive from directly targeted NSA surveillance of the communications" of the three French presidents as well as French ministers and the ambassador to the US.
One of the files, dated 2012, is about Mr Hollande discussing Greece's possible exit from the eurozone. Another one - from 2011 - alleges that Mr Sarkozy was determined to resume peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians, possibly without US involvement.
A file dated 2010 suggests that French officials were aware that the US was spying upon them and intended to complain about it.
www.bbc.co.uk...

Yes spying happens and yes in some cases it's justified but spying on your close allies ? , sign of a paranoid nation ? , sure looks that way to me.

Vive la revolution.

The French spied on the US, as did Germany. Countries spying on each other is the way it is. Why is anyone surprised?

a reply to: gortex

We already got that memo, thanks America for that, Land of the free! ahem I mean spied on, or spies, or not free. Land of high morals you say?

Spying on innocent British citizens by US intelligence was allowed by Tony Blair’s government - and still goes on

Spying on innocent British citizens by US intelligence was allowed by Tony Blair’s government - and still goes on

originally posted by: paraphi
The French spied on the US, as did Germany. Countries spying on each other is the way it is. Why is anyone surprised?

Just so they can post some faux outrage.

a reply to: hellobruce

Just so they can post some faux outrage.

Faux outrage ?
No wonder they do stuff like this when the only reaction it receives is MEH !!!
For your information I am outraged , but hey if you think it's OK for governments to spy on their allies then I guess my outrage is unimportant and misplaced.
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.

a reply to: gortex

I think it is about time that we just accepted the fact that we are all spied on, all of the time, and that the only thing left to worry about is what to do about it.

Frankly, my read on the situation is that the revelations so far have been so vast, so all encompassing in terms of the reach of the systems being used against everyone, that nothing will shock me regarding this program anymore. Every new revelation that is made, merely confirms one or another suspicion that I have regarding the arbitrary surveillance tactics being used at the moment, rather than surprising me. I would imagine that I am not the only person who is experiencing things from this perspective!

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

We already got that memo, thanks America for that

Spying on your citizens and those of other nations is bad enough and not to be accepted lightly but spying on and bugging the governments of friendly nations is abhorrent and illegal , more seriously it's a breach of national security.

Rogue nations aren't limited to dictatorships.

a reply to: gortex

No i am not in the least bit suprised and to be honest i am getting a bit sick of these stories, purely because they are such a waste of time. Nations spy - on enemies, on allies and even on their own internal agencies. This is as old as international relations and is just a waste of news print. It is like those scientific reports saying useful things like "kids that are abused don't perform as well at school" or "people exposed to serious pollution may develop health problems".

To think this doesn't go on is a whole new level of naievity. Just look at Germany - outrage at US spying and then it emerges that Germany itself has been spying on its allies.....and since then, no more mock outrage by the Germans.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: theabsolutetruth

We already got that memo, thanks America for that

Spying on your citizens and those of other nations is bad enough and not to be accepted lightly but spying on and bugging the governments of friendly nations is abhorrent and illegal , more seriously it's a breach of national security.

Rogue nations aren't limited to dictatorships.

Gortex, every nation does this. It also involves industrial espionage, particularly withing the military-industrial complex (but also telecoms, etc). In point of fact, all spying is illegal, that is why Spy Agencies are so secretive. Quite simply, the view is akin to ~"how can i trust my allies if i don't know what they are up to?"

originally posted by: gortex Rogue nations aren't limited to dictatorships.

and vice-versa. i don't think any government trusts any other. paranoia and suspicion are part of the governmental M.O, universally i expect.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth

Spying on innocent British citizens by US intelligence was allowed by Tony Blair’s government - and still goes on

It goes both ways. If we need someone spied on and can't do it constitutionally, we toss it over the wall and one of you guys, typically Australia, does it for us.

It might be sort of irritating, but you guys have to ask us to do it, and specify who, where, when and for how long. So, generally, the "innocent" part is probably questionable.

originally posted by: paraphi
The French spied on the US, as did Germany. Countries spying on each other is the way it is. Why is anyone surprised?

You go to France, and you have any US governmental history, and/or you're a MIC contractor, and I can tell you that DGSE will be following you around, going through your stuff in customs and for all I know tossing your hotel room and trying to clone your hard drives while you're out eating a nice meal.

DGSE is very very aggressive. You're advised not to carry any sensitive material at all, nor make any sensitive phone calls or data transfers that aren't encrypted a bit more than what you get with GSM by default.

At least when you go to Moscow it's easier to spot the guys tailing you about, and if you get lost you can always ask them to take you back to the hotel.

Another torpedo amidships to the USS Benevolence.

A few more will sink her.

a reply to: gortex

I am all on board for the ethics of nations, but I am a realist, I know they do even worse stuff than spying on allied governments.

IMO governmental corruption knows no bounds, America is a top of the list offender in that category, next to Russia, NK, China etc. and the UK isn't all that far from the top.

a reply to: Bedlam

I am aware of that, I just posted it for information.

To be honest I'm surprised that no one seems to be able to draw a distinction between spying and phone tap / bugging.
As I said in the OP Yes spying happens and yes in some cases it's justified , but bugging allies is wrong and it breaches their national security , is the (unsubstantiated) argument everybody else is doing it really justification for what is essentially criminal activity.


a reply to: Flavian

outrage at US spying and then it emerges that Germany itself has been spying on its allies

Germany's national intelligence agency had spied on top French officials and on the EU's headquarters on behalf of the US

Germany know which side of their bread is buttered.

I think what makes it a little more sensitive for the leaders of these nations - is that they're all meant to be in on this little agenda together. Dividing and conquering of the middle east was meant to be a team game.

So when the other corrupt lying politician whom your scheming with starts spying on your phone calls, your friends, your day to day happenings you feel a little betrayed.

I think as well that the US doing it is almost expected.. every world leader should considier their phones forever compromised. But, other countries like France and Australia have no clue how to spy and track the US president.

Israel is probably the only exception to the rule.

Isn't getting caught spying on a non-hostile power, considered to be a declaration of war against that power?