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Banning the US flag as well.

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posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: SkipperJohn

If you buy a Confederate flag are you an auto-racist? No. But you should be prepared for many to consider you one.




posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 12:21 PM
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originally posted by: jaffo

originally posted by: yuppa
Why you ask? Oh because all of the killing,genocide and un lawfullness under that flag. Liek killing off the American indians and stealing their land. Or more recently the Excursion into Iraq. Point is the US flag is a symbol of hatred and bigotry to many Native americans. It needs to go just like the confederate flag.


No one is "banning" the Confederate Battle Flag. Many people, myself included, simply feel that it should not be flown at any State building. Not that big of a deal except for racists, really.


Except there are companies banning the confederate flag. Amazon apparently is looking at banning books with a confederate flag portrayed on the cover. Apple is banning game Apps about the Civil War because they portray a confederate flag. This has gone beyond ludicrous. We are into "1984" stuff now. Book burning....yeah that is a good idea. Anything that refers to the Civil War is being banished apparently. The one War in our history we never want to forget, lest we repeat it. The one war that shaped our country in so many ways I can't mention them here, from the Industrial Revolution to the Constitution. Someone somewhere will eventually construct an argument that the Constitution is racist and should be banned and re-written. I would bet my next pay check someone somewhere (a liberal democrat no doubt) right now is trying to write that very argument and will roll it out in the near future. That way they can get rid of all of that inconvenient stuff like guns and free speech. You just watch....



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Annee

You know I find it amusing that the very people claiming that removing the Confederate Flag is akin to white washing history are the VERY same people pushing the narrative that the Civil War wasn't about slavery (which is in itself white washed history).

PS: I've read the book "Lies My Teacher Told Me". It is VERY good and illuminating. I plan on buying more of his books when I get a chance, because I LIKE learning about dirty history.


Yes.

This subject in variations has been discussed many times on ATS. I've done a lot of reading on it over the years. I know the propaganda.

I haven't read the book yet, but will be getting it for my grandson. I learned about it on Talk Radio discussions when it first came out.


I have read the book also and while it is interesting the author got that part wrong. You can be sure that if the Civil War was fought for the single purpose of freeing the slaves, it would have been a very very different war. Racism did not start and end at the Mason/Dixon line. People in the North were just as racially biased and I doubt very seriously that many would have left their families, taken up arms, joined the militias, and gone off to war for the simple single purpose of freeing slaves. It just would not have happened. Northeasterners like to portray themselves as being the most enlightened people in our country but back then....not so much. There was a very high degree of racial prejudice in the north and while there were pockets of people truly passionate about slavery and its evils it would not have been enough to mount a military operation against. Couple that with the Europeans who joined in to fight for the North and the argument gets even weaker. It was about commerce, paying the European debt, and keeping the agricultural base in this country part of the United States.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 01:00 PM
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The confederate flag is one of rebellious slave holders. A rebellion, by the way, that FAILED. Get the hell over it.

You want to cherish your heritage of slave ownership and treason, go ahead. But the flag of a failed movement to destroy the USA, and continue a tradition of human bondage, does not belong an ANY government building. Geez! I don't know why this has to be explained to anyone who hasn't suffered severe head trauma. The US likes winners - not losers. The confederacy LOST ! 150 years ago!


a reply to: yuppa



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 01:07 PM
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a reply to: Annee

You could always make a quick stop at the library before you go.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: icewater

If you had actually read the book, you'd know that Lowen acknowledges many of those points but still highlights that slavery was the primary driving factor of the war. Just because there are other factors that went into why the South and North came to blows, doesn't mean you can just casually dismiss the slavery issue like it was no big deal. There are COUNTLESS amounts of historical records that prove that slavery was a VERY big deal to the south and was likely the primary reason for the war.

Heck, all it takes is a study of the politics leading UP to the war to come to this conclusion. Just about all political discussions from 1776 to 1860 had SOMETHING to do with slavery. Most of the time it involved the North acquiescing to the South's demands to prevent the South from seceding from the Union. In FACT, that is why slavery was even PUT in the Constitution in the first place, so that the South would join the colonies to create a new country.

No one is trying to argue that that North was a bastion of enlightened tolerance during the 1800's, and you'd be hard pressed to find any historian who would claim that the Abolitionist movement was a majority population movement, that doesn't mean that Southerners didn't take it as a real threat (this is especially true since the South seceded because Abraham Lincoln was elected instead of waiting for him to start enacting any policies).
edit on 25-6-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 01:39 PM
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originally posted by: jaffo


No one is "banning" the Confederate Battle Flag. Many people, myself included, simply feel that it should not be flown at any State building. Not that big of a deal except for racists, really.


The Confederate flag has been banned in America in as much as guns have been banned because we are not permitted in court buildings with them.

hy·per·bo·le
/hīˈpərbəlē/
noun: hyperbole; plural noun: hyperboles
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
synonyms: exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, embroidery, embellishment, excess, overkill, rhetoric



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: yuppa
Banning the US flag as well.
IF we want to 'get real', let's talk about Dylann Roof, the shooter at the Charleston Church on June 17. Everyone is calling for various kinds of punishment to Dylann for those 9 people murdered.

Me? I see Dylann as just as much a victim as the 9 people he shot and killed.

Looking at Dylann and reading his life story to date, I see a confused, barely-out-of-adolescence, kid ...an American youth...a product of American focus on profit and not public services, of America's obsession with defunding public education in favor of floating bonds for bigger stadiums, of being so afraid of providing services to racial minorities that services are cut for all citizens. Dylann was one of the victims of these wrong and un-American policies.

Before I see Dylann (as a co-called 'adult') confined for the next 20 years ...or executed (for God's sake), I want to see some of the major media hate mongers and truth distorters on trial - Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, the KKK leaders, and the rest. It hurts bad that their spew was successful in killing 10 people (yes, 10) on June 17, 2015, at the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 02:34 PM
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originally posted by: icewater

originally posted by: jaffo

originally posted by: yuppa
Why you ask? Oh because all of the killing,genocide and un lawfullness under that flag. Liek killing off the American indians and stealing their land. Or more recently the Excursion into Iraq. Point is the US flag is a symbol of hatred and bigotry to many Native americans. It needs to go just like the confederate flag.


No one is "banning" the Confederate Battle Flag. Many people, myself included, simply feel that it should not be flown at any State building. Not that big of a deal except for racists, really.


Except there are companies banning the confederate flag. Amazon apparently is looking at banning books with a confederate flag portrayed on the cover. Apple is banning game Apps about the Civil War because they portray a confederate flag. This has gone beyond ludicrous. We are into "1984" stuff now. Book burning....yeah that is a good idea. Anything that refers to the Civil War is being banished apparently. The one War in our history we never want to forget, lest we repeat it. The one war that shaped our country in so many ways I can't mention them here, from the Industrial Revolution to the Constitution. Someone somewhere will eventually construct an argument that the Constitution is racist and should be banned and re-written. I would bet my next pay check someone somewhere (a liberal democrat no doubt) right now is trying to write that very argument and will roll it out in the near future. That way they can get rid of all of that inconvenient stuff like guns and free speech. You just watch....


Refusing to sell something is the right of any vendor or purveyor of goods. It's simple market feedback. What would you do, force Amazon to sell them?



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 03:29 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: icewater

If you had actually read the book, you'd know that Lowen acknowledges many of those points but still highlights that slavery was the primary driving factor of the war. Just because there are other factors that went into why the South and North came to blows, doesn't mean you can just casually dismiss the slavery issue like it was no big deal. There are COUNTLESS amounts of historical records that prove that slavery was a VERY big deal to the south and was likely the primary reason for the war.

Heck, all it takes is a study of the politics leading UP to the war to come to this conclusion. Just about all political discussions from 1776 to 1860 had SOMETHING to do with slavery. Most of the time it involved the North acquiescing to the South's demands to prevent the South from seceding from the Union. In FACT, that is why slavery was even PUT in the Constitution in the first place, so that the South would join the colonies to create a new country.



I swear, no one reads.

TY for factual clarifications in your posts, not just this thread.

When did I say slavery was the only issue?

Slavery is/was the #1 reason, in various ways. Economics being one of them. Allowing slavery to continue for the political reason of joining a union.

From my phone @ MCD, somewhere in the CA desert



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 03:32 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Of course they don't read. It gives them plausible denyability when they construct their strawmans to attack your argument.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: havanaja
a reply to: yuppa
Banning the US flag as well.
IF we want to 'get real', let's talk about Dylann Roof, the shooter at the Charleston Church on June 17. Everyone is calling for various kinds of punishment to Dylann for those 9 people murdered.

Me? I see Dylann as just as much a victim as the 9 people he shot and killed.

Looking at Dylann and reading his life story to date, I see a confused, barely-out-of-adolescence, kid ...an American youth...a product of American focus on profit and not public services, of America's obsession with defunding public education in favor of floating bonds for bigger stadiums, of being so afraid of providing services to racial minorities that services are cut for all citizens. Dylann was one of the victims of these wrong and un-American policies.

Before I see Dylann (as a co-called 'adult') confined for the next 20 years ...or executed (for God's sake), I want to see some of the major media hate mongers and truth distorters on trial - Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, the KKK leaders, and the rest. It hurts bad that their spew was successful in killing 10 people (yes, 10) on June 17, 2015, at the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina.


#trollharder #fail



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 05:14 PM
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originally posted by: jaffo

originally posted by: havanaja
a reply to: yuppa
Banning the US flag as well.
IF we want to 'get real', let's talk about Dylann Roof, the shooter at the Charleston Church on June 17. Everyone is calling for various kinds of punishment to Dylann for those 9 people murdered.

Me? I see Dylann as just as much a victim as the 9 people he shot and killed.

Looking at Dylann and reading his life story to date, I see a confused, barely-out-of-adolescence, kid ...an American youth...a product of American focus on profit and not public services, of America's obsession with defunding public education in favor of floating bonds for bigger stadiums, of being so afraid of providing services to racial minorities that services are cut for all citizens. Dylann was one of the victims of these wrong and un-American policies.

Before I see Dylann (as a co-called 'adult') confined for the next 20 years ...or executed (for God's sake), I want to see some of the major media hate mongers and truth distorters on trial - Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, the KKK leaders, and the rest. It hurts bad that their spew was successful in killing 10 people (yes, 10) on June 17, 2015, at the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina.


#trollharder #fail


Click to the left for twitter. This is the ATS forum.


edit on 25-6-2015 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 05:42 PM
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originally posted by: TheIceQueen

originally posted by: poncho1982
a reply to: Annee

I really wish you would go and study up on it, because you sound silly.

Yes, slavery was a PART of what the Civil War was about.

But it was not the only thing by far. They had DEEP cultural and economic differences, as well as differences in how the Federal Government should impose it's will on the states, they feared we'd have EXACTLY what we have now, an over reaching Federal Government. Plus the election of Lincoln angered the South as he was viewed as pro North, and pro Federal government.

Southerners viewed the North as uppity and snooty, while the Northerners viewed the south as little better than "savages". And those viewpoints went all the way to congress.

It's not as black and white (no pun intended) as you want to believe.


I have to disagree with you there.. The southerners were far from savages. Gentry and royal descendants (those of the upper class) would migrate to the south, first heading to the Virginia colony. You see, the south and north already had a feud so to say, because to generalize- they already had 'beef' back in England/Scotland, as their ancestors had their own civil war against one another, the northerners largely came from the puritan descendants and the southerners from the upper class/gentry.

If anything, speaking from their ancestor's past (and obviously themselves) they were the puritanical, lowly savages.


I understand that.

But that doesn't change the way Northerners viewed them.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 06:02 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: JackReyes
Flags divide people.

Don't worship a flag.

Serve God and live.


Religion doesn't divide people?

No one worships a flag. They support the history and idealism it represents.



Religion does divide people. For a lot of wrong reasons. And sometimes for the right one. For example Jesus said that because some would prefer true worship, households would become divided, as families members would be divided over the truth.

That is because everyone has freewill.

But you are correct also in that many false worshipers of God, and many other false religions have caused divisions, hatred, and death upon mankind like an ugly plague.

The #1 reason of atheism is because of religion.

Oh, and yes, giving blind allegiance to a flag is tantamount to giving it worship, or worshiping the state.

Many people today worship the flag of their perspective countries. So flags are symbols of division among mankind.

Why does their need to be so much division and hatred? Nationalism and patriotism? They are all scourges of humanity.
edit on 25-6-2015 by JackReyes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 06:04 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Jhugener

No thanks, I'm a conscientious objector when it comes to voting.


Does that mean you have no say?


That is absolutely not what that means. I will vote when popular vote actually means something, until then every vote does not count.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 06:46 PM
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originally posted by: TownCryer
The confederate flag is one of rebellious slave holders. A rebellion, by the way, that FAILED. Get the hell over it.

You want to cherish your heritage of slave ownership and treason, go ahead. But the flag of a failed movement to destroy the USA, and continue a tradition of human bondage, does not belong an ANY government building. Geez! I don't know why this has to be explained to anyone who hasn't suffered severe head trauma. The US likes winners - not losers. The confederacy LOST ! 150 years ago!


a reply to: yuppa



I SUGGEST YOU READ BEFORE COMMENTING AND SOUNDING LIKE A IDIOT. Go back and reread the first 2 pages. I will wait for your apology.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 06:54 PM
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originally posted by: havanaja
a reply to: yuppa
Banning the US flag as well.
IF we want to 'get real', let's talk about Dylann Roof, the shooter at the Charleston Church on June 17. Everyone is calling for various kinds of punishment to Dylann for those 9 people murdered.

Me? I see Dylann as just as much a victim as the 9 people he shot and killed.

Looking at Dylann and reading his life story to date, I see a confused, barely-out-of-adolescence, kid ...an American youth...a product of American focus on profit and not public services, of America's obsession with defunding public education in favor of floating bonds for bigger stadiums, of being so afraid of providing services to racial minorities that services are cut for all citizens. Dylann was one of the victims of these wrong and un-American policies.

Before I see Dylann (as a co-called 'adult') confined for the next 20 years ...or executed (for God's sake), I want to see some of the major media hate mongers and truth distorters on trial - Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, the KKK leaders, and the rest. It hurts bad that their spew was successful in killing 10 people (yes, 10) on June 17, 2015, at the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina.


Words cant kill you generally,and they are within their rights to say what they want. I may not agree with them but i defend their right to say it without fear of jail or death. I was a product of the Educational system in the 90'sand 80's. They go t plenty of funding its just the mis managing of the funds.

More WHITES are on welfare than blacks these days too btw. I can testify to myself.



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 07:50 PM
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a reply to: intrptr

Apparently Annee here doesn't think they are that stupid..rightwingnews.com...



posted on Jun, 25 2015 @ 07:54 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

Well actually the current United States flag was designed in 1960, so it wasn't the flag that represented the country during the Native American times.

Also the civilized tribes held slaves, and fought for the south, so they were in support of the confederacy. That kind of ruins your argument.



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